To bore-ride or not to bore-ride...that is the question

[rvpilot76]

I've got this Marlin Cowboy that needs feeding. I'm thinking a 430 grain bullet with one wide lube groove and a gas check. It will have an 80% meplat and be moving about 1600 1700 FPS. Now, do I bore ride this bullet, or use a Ogival Flat Point? I will be using a Mountain Mold and according to their calculations, the OFP bullet has a bearing length of .771" and the bore-rider has a bearing length of .809". I think I would like to stay away from exposed bands outside of the case(bore-rider), as my thinking has me believing that the OFP with its completely smooth nose would feed better? Am I thinking in the right direction on this one? Thanks fellas.

Kevin

[MGySgt]

rvpilot76,

I have an OFP in 80% 430gr gc OFP and some of Creekers 430gr GC that is like the RCBS 405 (step like a bore rider).

Both feed great in both of my Marlin 1895's (GG and original Microgroove). However, the OFP gives me a problem with overall length (GG) if I crimp in the crimp groove. I have to shorten the cases, how much I haven't decided yet as I was just seeing if the Guide Gun would feed and shoot them, which is yes.

The OFP has a .10 front band and the Crreker 430 has a .079 front band and steps down to .448. The OFP jams into the lands if I use the crimp groove which CAN make it hard to chamber/close the lever.

I just ordered another mold from MM with a .08 front band and step down to .448 which should work well in both the GG and my Ruger #1.

Hope this helps.

Drew

[rvpilot76]

I put in a Cast Performance 460 grainer in a case, seated long, and shortened the COAL of the round until the action closed. This happened with the front band .150" out from the end of the case. Is your Marlin around .8 on the throat length? Am I reading that correctly? Is your new mold from MM going to be a bore-rider, hence the step down to .448? My land dimension is .452, and I would like the bore-rider diameter to be about .450-.451. Is that putting it too close?

Kevin

[The Nyack Kid]

it is going to be very close . say if you have a small peice of lead get in between the blocks ,preventing them from closing all the way , you could end up with a boolit that is to wide above the front bands going unnoticed . all of my bore riders are no greater than .448 above the band . what i have seen done to quite a few OFP's is that they make a short (.050) long drive band that is .452 wide .what sort of leade do you have . is it 1.5 % or the abruped step like what the winchesters are infamaus for.

[MGySgt]

rvpilot76,

The lead in my Guide Gun is .10, but the radius of the OFP is slow so it is still hitting the lands. Like The Nyack Kid says - if your bore rider is a little bit fatter (molds not closed, harder alloy, alloy or molds hotter/cooler) you could have problems chambering it. This is a hunting bullet and I want 100% reliable feeding.

My new mold will NOT be a bore rider. I use the step to ensure that I don't engrave the lands at all in the GG and still have a good front band.

Also my Ruger #1 has a short lead and I copied the front band demisions from Creekers 430gr gc which I know works well in my #1.

Good luck on your design - Let us know how it works out.

Drew

[rvpilot76]

what sort of leade do you have . is it 1.5 % or the abruped step like what the winchesters are infamaus for.

Boy, I really don't know. I haven't had a chamber cast made as of yet, and I'm not sure there are any gunsmiths who will in my neck of the woods. The only thing I'm sure of is that I have a .150" throat. Based on MGySgt's input, it would seem that an OFP with a .448" front band .080" long should fit the bill. I am still leaning towards the .500 nose; it functions just fine in my rifle.
MGySgt, would you mind sending me a couple of your new MM bullets to see if the OFP front band dimensions would work in my Cowboy? That right there would be the biggest help, and if it didn't work out, I'd save myself $80 and be indebted to you (was gonna call you sir, but with the rank of Master Gunnery Sergeant, I didn't want to offend you-I'm sure you work for a living :-D ) My thanks to all for listening to my ramblings.

Kevin

[MGySgt]

rvpilot76 - If you have a good set of calipers do the chamber cast your self. I did mine the way Veral Smith suggests.

Fill a case just about full with lead, take a lead slug (pure lead or close to it) drop it down the barrel, or chamber it with the leaded case and use a 3/8's steel rod to hammer it until it swags out to fill the chamber.

A few things:

wrap the steel rod with electial tape a few places to keep it away from the steel in the barrel. Don't use a wood dowel it can break and jam into it's self and then you have a mess.

Lub both the case of lead (to include the case head) and the lead slug. I used my spay bottle of Dillions case lub.

use a 2 or 3 pound minie sledge hammer instead of a 16 or 20 oz claw hammer. Works better and you don't have to hit it as hard.

If the case is too full or your lead slud is too long you may have trouble getting it ejected from the receiver port. I did in my 1895 with micro groove.

I have plenty of the 430 gr gc 80% meplate OFP. I haven't gotten my new mold yet, it will be a few weeks yet. If you want some of the OFP's - PM me with a mailing address. I will size and GC but not lub if you are only making dummy rounds. They will be sized .460.

If you want to wait until I get my new molds I can send you some of both.

Finally - Yes - I do work for a living - so please don't call me Sir!

Drew

[rvpilot76]

rvpilot76 - I have plenty of the 430 gr gc 80% meplate OFP. I haven't gotten my new mold yet, it will be a few weeks yet. If you want some of the OFP's - PM me with a mailing address. I will size and GC but not lub if you are only making dummy rounds. They will be sized .460.

If you want to wait until I get my new molds I can send you some of both.

Finally - Yes - I do work for a living - so please don't call me Sir!

Drew
That would be great. I will wait until you get your new MM. I can't thank you enough! You don't have to worry about me calling you that; I know officers don't really work for a living ;-). Much abliged.

Kevin

[BABore]

You may want to check out Jae Bok Young's 420 gr Crater Lite bullets. The original is an OFP, and I believe the Crater Lite II is a bore rider. It was made for the no-throat Ruger #1's. I got some samples for my 450 Marlin GG last year. They didn't shoot as well as the originals in my gun. Think my throat checked out a 0.206". The web site is;

http://www.competitor-pistol.com/jb%20home.html

You may be able to get some samples of each to try out so you can decide.

[Dutch4122]

There has been a lot of talk about Jae Bok Young's "Crater" bullets over at the Marlinowners.com site. Most of it very good. I've noticed that the Crater and Crater-Lite bullets look an awful lot like the Ballisti-Cast #1451 WFNGC 550 grn and the #1452 WFNGC 430 grn designs. Anybody know if they are the same thing?

[shooter575]

Hey I would do a chamber cast with sulfer.As long as you don't let it burn[smells bad] you can't hurt anything. I think we have a thread on doing that somewhere here. That pounding lead with a steel rod sounds harsh to me.

[MGySgt]

Hey I would do a chamber cast with sulfer.As long as you don't let it burn[smells bad] you can't hurt anything. I think we have a thread on doing that somewhere here. That pounding lead with a steel rod sounds harsh to me.

Anything that you heat is going to expand and then shrink when it cools.

I.E. A false reading. If you know what the shrinkage is you can add that back. But then you need to know the actual temperature. Even creosafe (SP?) can not give you a true measurement, the shrinkage is different for the temp you melt it at.

Yes, we are talking thousands of an inch (or smaller?). But if you want to fit your chamber.....

I have done a number of chambers this way. As long as you remember to use pure lead (as close as you can get) for your slug and use a minie sledge instead of a claw hammer and lub everything, you will not have a problem. Just remember to wrap tape aound the rod to keep it away from the steel.

Everyone has 'their way of doing it', I like this one. It is easy and you make your own slugs. We all have pure lead around, even if it is only the stick on WW.

rvpilot76 -

Others here are talking about 'Jae Bok Young's "Crater" bullets'. As long as you are waiting for my samples, give them a try too, all you have to loose is time. Unless you are like some of us here that can't get enough molds.

Drew

[The Nyack Kid]

if you are going for a tight fit go with a chamber cast .
if i remember corrrectly the microgrove marlins have the 1.5 degree leade . i dont know if the ballard rifled marlins still have that . it was also my under standing that the older ruger #1s and #3 had long throats . what winchester does is they have a .085 long throat then the rifling just starts no leade at alljust a step .with my 1886 EL i could not chamber the 400gr speer seated to the crimpgrove (please dont tell any one i was trying to shoot jacketed in my 45-70) so i had my gunsmith leathen the throat out to .155 . i forget what the leade is . I myself much prefer the lbt style OFPs to BRs . the mold that i had Dan cut for me is loosely based apon castproformance LBTs and beartooths piledrivers in that the memplat is 82%and the nose is .450 inch long .like the piledriver And then i went with the measurements from a CP 420 LFN for the front band ie .050 tall and .452 wide .
Rvpilot76 when you took your OAL measurements was it with a wide memplat boolit or a narrow memplat boolit ?

[rvpilot76]

Rvpilot76 when you took your OAL measurements was it with a wide memplat boolit or a narrow memplat boolit ?
They were the wide meplat 460 grain Cast Performance WLNGC bullets. Nose kinda looks like a Keith. They cycle just fine whether seated to the crimp groove .450 nose) or .500 nose length (they look 'meaner'-hehe).

[MGySgt]

That would be great. I will wait until you get your new MM. I can't thank you enough! You don't have to worry about me calling you that; I know officers don't really work for a living ;-). Much abliged.

Kevin

Kevin - Molds came in yesterday - PM me with an address.


Drew

[rvpilot76]

Kevin - Molds came in yesterday - PM me with an address.


Drew
PM sent. Thanks.

Kevin