T C Seneca .36, paper patch?

[lentuk]

My wife would like to compete in the local steel match with a .36 caliber Seneca but the little balls wont knock down the bigger steel silhouette targets, can I paper patch some heavier boolets and run them in that 1 in 48 barrel to knock down that steel?
I have a bunch of .357, 158 grain SWC that seem to slide right down the barrel or should I find a .45 Seneca barrel and try that?

[357Mag]

Lentuc -

Howdy !

FWIW -
I have shot some trial " patched " boolits, in my Marlin M-336 XLR .35 Rem.

Am am using "Dead Center " .35 cal swaged SPBT, pulled from their .45 cal sabotted ML " rounds ".
I patch these w/ DYMO label maker tape. The tape in Nylon, and self-stick on one side.

While the DYMO tape is thicker than what paper patches normally run, the swaged .35" cal boolits mic right-at .350".
And, while my rifle is .358" cal and your's .360", I'm thinking DYMO tape would still be thick-enough to work in your application.

I mention this possible approach because Dead Center offers both a 175gr and 195gr variants of their swaged polymer-tipped Spitzers.... which feature rebated boat tails. These weights are significantly heavier than the more-common 158gr wt you mentioned.

The DYMO tape is easy to apply, and is low cost !


With regards,
357Mag

[mooman76]

Do they allow bullets rather than RBs?

[shdwlkr]

If something other than rb are allowed why not use the maxi ball that TC made for the 36 caliber seneca?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

.350 RB is about 64gr.
My TC Maxi mold makes a conical weighing 132gr.
Is that heavy enough ?

[Good Cheer]

My wife would like to compete in the local steel match with a .36 caliber Seneca but the little balls wont knock down the bigger steel silhouette targets, can I paper patch some heavier boolets and run them in that 1 in 48 barrel to knock down that steel?
I have a bunch of .357, 158 grain SWC that seem to slide right down the barrel or should I find a .45 Seneca barrel and try that?

Is the twist really that slow? Just asking, don't know.
Heard once upon a time they were thirty something twist.
That long .36 maxi mold worked pretty good in .38 Specials. Maybe .38 Special molds will work in a TC .36.

Hey, have you measured the bore diameter yet?

[shdwlkr]

twist in the 36 caliber TC is 1 in 48 the TC cherokee and seneca in 32 caliber is 1 in 30
I think you can use plain bullets up to .358 diameter, don't have access to mine right now

[swamp]

In my 36 Seneca I have used soft cast 358 boolits and swaged HBWC. They worked fine. Surprised me.
swamp

[idahoron]

I would wrap the .357 bullets with two wraps of 9# onion skin and size to fit. Should work just fine but I would us a short bullet.

[johnson1942]

a soft lead .357 bullets wrapped and sized as idaho ron says that is .45 long is perfect for your 1/48 twist rifle. you could try a .5 long bullet and most likely it will shoot well to 200 or so yards but may tumble past 300 yards. it should shoot very very accurate and consistantly. keep the lead soft.

[daleraby]

The thing that comes to mind is what alloy the bullets are cast with. If they are linotype, they might not obturate when fired with a BP charge... then again, they might, you'll have to try. As I seem to repeat often on this forum, its very important to get that bullet seated atop the powder charge for safety reasons, so make sure that its a pretty tight fit. You also want to lube the paper patch with some kind of non-petroleum grease for two reasons; to reduce fouling issues and to allow the patch to slide down the bore without ripping before it gets to the bottom. I like the idea of a hollow base wadcutter as I would think it would perform like a Minie ball.

Back in the day when I was a much younger man shooting NRA Hunter's Pistol with a T/C Contender in .22 LR, I had a similar problem knocking down the rams. At this time, Winchester was marketing a heavier bullet for just that sort of problem... I stll have half a box left around here somewhere... but even this wasn't enough. Eventually, i learned that not only did I have to hit the ram, but I had to hit it high and off center. This caused the target to tilt as it had better leverage and if off-center, it would also rotate and (hopefully) fall off the stand it was on. So, over the next couple of years, I found myself shooting at the ram's horns. Eventually, I learned that the better methodology was to shoot a .32-20 Winchester barrel. So... hit the targets high and off center if you can, and go to a heavier projectile and/or a heavier charge of powder.

Another possible issue again, depending upon what the bullets are cast with.... I shot a match a while back using a Dan Wesson 44 magnum with 44 special charge weights and hard cast bullets. I wanted a bit less recoil as by the end of a 40 round match... and in those days I might shoot a couple matches in the same day... I was getting pretty beat-up from recoil with the heavy magnum charges. The targets still went down, but as it was a steel target, not a bowling pin, you had to have enough velocity to cause the bullet to splatter on the target. If you didn't, there was a chance that the target might "shoot back". The guy in the next shooting lane holstered his gun in mid-match and retreated from the line limping a little. Apparently my bullet had hit a chcken and come back to strike him in the leg. It didn't have enough to break the skin, but it raised a welt. Now, an evil man might have decided that shooting the competion was one way to win matches, but I was just embarassed. I think that was the last match I ever shot in.

[lentuk]

Thanks guys but my wife decided she wants a .45 or .50 to knock down the steel targets.
The little .36 is going to get sold.
Again, Thank you.

[Squeeze]

I have a 14 twist .36 that shoots resized 9.3 bullets. Im currently shooting 280 grain GG style over a veg wad and 45-65 grn powder.

[johnson1942]

tell us more squeeze, sounds very interesting.

[Squeeze]

Its still a work in progress. The gun is an Oregon barrel on an Allen inline action. this shows the build. http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=26443&hilit=Allen+inline+build
It shoots sabots and XTP .32 100 grain fine, but I want to shoot bigger. Ive been trying to size down 9.3 (.368) My bore is .360/~.368 It takes at least 2 steps to size, and so far I havent had any luck with jacketed, But soft lead I have started to get to work. I have a NOE mold http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=36_232&products_id=2166&osCsid=pg45et0t9kuo1kjhcoss76hld0 here is a photo of some early sizing attempts. (the cast is a cull, I used to test things early on) 169021left:280 grn NOE, right:285 prvi partizan. Neither is really right for what I want, I may try for a custom mold later on.

A lot of this comes from White, and the varminter rifle the team used at friendship in '07



from whites site: Varminter rifle.White had been participating in the National Muzzleloading Manufacturer’s Match in Friendship, Indiana, put on by the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association since 2000. The original concept was to shoot commonly available muzzleloading hunting rifles in competition at paper and steel target from 25 to 150 yards. Tuning was allowed but only what an ordinary hunter might do to his hunting rifle. It soon became obvious that the various companies were doing far more than that, with special barrels, and bullets and the best of shooters. White tried competing with off the shelf rifles but their amatuer shooters usually lost badly to other more sophisticated teams. In 2007, I was approached by a group who saw the potential in the White System. As a consequence, we (the team and I) designed a .368 caliber rifle that I called the Varminter, designed for slow, meticulous shooting at small game or target. The team won that year, 2007, beating all old records for team and individual shooting by a substantial margin. Our best shooter only lost 9 points out of 300 for the match. The performance was so astounding that the match disappeared. Nobody wanted to come back to face that kind of competition. I was personally disappointed that the other companies did not rise to meet the competition.
http://whitemuzzleloading.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/UltraRifleFullRight1.jpg (http://whitemuzzleloading.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/UltraRifleFullRight1.jpg)

The most accurate muzzleloading rifle in the world!!


I have heard they had problems with windage at longer ranges from other shooters at the time, I cant say much for facts. I just like oddball calibers and tinkering with a challenge.

[johnson1942]

have you read my article for ramshot.com its on the blogspot section and is titled how to paperpatch the inline muzzleloader. use lead no harder that 30 to one and size so you can put one wrap of 18 pound freezer wrap paper around it and pot it ontop of a wad and down the bore it goes. i didnt invent this method i just made a lot of guys and gals aware of it. its called the chase patch system. i taught a couple of guys in the midle west some where how to do this system with their modern inline like the one in the picture. they have 45 cal barrels with 1/18 twists and 1/20 twist. they have wont a lot of 500 yard matches. your gun would be perfect for this. again, size to a size that one wrap of freezer wrap 18 pound papergoes around, make the paper long enough so you can fold over on to the base then into the bore ontop of a wad and down on the powder. the wad will hold the paper on the bullet. the paper comes off at the muzzle usually in one piece with land and groove marks in it. i think you chose the perfect action and barrel for this gun.

[Squeeze]

I have seen that! I got a Mihec .359-640 on a recent group buy here thats in the works also for PP trials http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?292254-MiHec-Brass-358429-HP-Aluminum-358429-Keith-SWC

[johnson1942]

squeeze, if you single wrapped that bullet and had the right length bullet, you could shoot that thing with the right sights to 1000 yards. that gun of yours is a sleeper that is about to wake up. the perfect bullet length for a 1000 yard shooting to 1400 yard shooting is 1.1 long for your gun. a little longer for 100 yards to 500 yards but not much longer. keep us in the loop. its a interesting gun with a lot of potential.

[daleraby]

Thanks guys but my wife decided she wants a .45 or .50 to knock down the steel targets.
The little .36 is going to get sold.
Again, Thank you.

... and just how much wouldja be wantin' for it?

[swamp]

... and just how much wouldja be wantin' for it?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[LuckyDog]

... and just how much wouldja be wantin' for it?
Ooh, is this going to be an auction?

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[lentuk]

Rifle was sold for $450.00