Modified Lee 578-478

[HPT]

Bought a P53 Enfield a couple weeks back and took it out today No groups worth showing - but I did notice the velocity was much higher than I expected & my chrono seems to be reading fine.

The bullet was the Lee 578-478 "modified" by me to use a 3/8" oak tapered plug in the base. This resulted in a bullet weight of 440 grains

I got the following velocities with Swiss 1.5FG powder

50 gr 1022 fps
60 gr 1178 fps
70 gr 1264 fps

Anyone think these numbers seem very high? Maybe the plug sealed the bore real good? The bore measures .577 and the bullet was sized .576

Also is there a velocity range that should give the best accuracy with a minie?

What lube is best to allow shooting without any cleaning?

[Hellgate]

You could check the diameter of the target holes with an unfired minie to see if the skirt is flaring on heavy charges. If the holes are all the same diameter regardless of the charge then you are probably not flaring the skirt. If a minie drops right through with room to spare than you are getting flaring of the skirt. Try it without the oak plug to see how it does. 50 grs shouldn't flare the skirt. I shoot heavy hunting loads of 90grs BP so I use the 575213-OS and the 577611 heavy skirted minie.

[HPT]

You could check the diameter of the target holes with an unfired minie to see if the skirt is flaring on heavy charges. If the holes are all the same diameter regardless of the charge then you are probably not flaring the skirt. If a minie drops right through with room to spare than you are getting flaring of the skirt. Try it without the oak plug to see how it does. 50 grs shouldn't flare the skirt. I shoot heavy hunting loads of 90grs BP so I use the 575213-OS and the 577611 heavy skirted minie.

I was thinking of ordering one of either of those 2 molds you mentioned. How do they compare as far as accuracy for you? I'm looking for something that can be shot without cleaning between shots - are you able to do this & maintain good accuracy? What lube & powder are you using? Do you know the size of your bullets & bore dia? I'm wondering if there is a minimum amount of clearance needed no matter what powder & lube is used or is there a combination of powder & lube where .001 - .0015 clearance works?

[Hellgate]

I use the heavier 577611 in the Musketoon and the Hawken (90grs FFg Goex) and the 575213-OS in the Zoli Zuave (90grs FFFg Goex). I am loading for hunting deer and in one case, elk so I'm using way heavier loads than what a target shooter or skirmisher would want. The skirmishers often are shooting 35-45 grs FFFg and a thinner skirted minie that will obturate and grip the riflings with a light charge. My lube was 50/50 beeswax and olive oil when I worked up those loads (smeared into the lube grooves, none in the base). I was getting 1.5-2 inches at 50 yards sighted in 5" high so it would be on xero @ 100yds. I would highly recommend you check out the www.n-ssa.org website for stickies and info on shooting the rifled muskets. That's the North-South skirmish association.

[HPT]

I use the heavier 577611 in the Musketoon and the Hawken (90grs FFg Goex) and the 575213-OS in the Zoli Zuave (90grs FFFg Goex). I am loading for hunting deer and in one case, elk so I'm using way heavier loads than what a target shooter or skirmisher would want. The skirmishers often are shooting 35-45 grs FFFg and a thinner skirted minie that will obturate and grip the riflings with a light charge. My lube was 50/50 beeswax and olive oil when I worked up those loads (smeared into the lube grooves, none in the base). I was getting 1.5-2 inches at 50 yards sighted in 5" high so it would be on xero @ 100yds. I would highly recommend you check out the www.n-ssa.org (http://www.n-ssa.org) website for stickies and info on shooting the rifled muskets. That's the North-South skirmish association.

Thanks for the response Hellgate - for your hunting loads do you need to clean between shots? Do you know what velocity you are getting? My P53 has a .577 bore I'm guessing a .575 might work unless the mold makes undersize bullets (I guess I could lap it to make it bigger)

[Hellgate]

You will never get more than two shots at game: one to knock it down and a second to finish it off if not found dead so I tend to shoot from a swabbed or once fired bore because that is what I'll be using. Once you shoot at game you don't have time to screw around with swabbing, you just dump powder, ram a minie and recap ASAP. Are you sure you want to hunt with such a long tom? My Zouave is plenty long (33" barrel) everything else I have sports 24 or 28" barrels. I think the full length muskets are pretty long for hunting purposes but work fine otherwise. I've gotten two does with the Zouave (75 & 100yds) and one elk with the Musketoon (@50 yds). Note the recoil pad on the 'toon (slip-on shotgun recoil pad). I work up my loads with a sandbag between me and the rifle butt.

My Hawken and Buffalo Hunter have larger bores than the 'toon & Zouave. That is one criticism of the .58s: they have variable bore diameters compared to the more standard .54s. I bought a 575213 "over size" mold for them but haven't gotten around to casting & shooting it yet.

[carbine]

You might want to check out the N-SSA.org bulletin board. They have been shooting Minies accurately since 1950. In general most skirmishers use 35-50 grains max for minie ball. They use Len's Lube, MCM, SPG and home brews. Your milage may vary. Best wishes. Lou

[HPT]

Thanks for the advise - been reading a lot and it sounds like the Lyman 575-213 is the most popular bullet. Do they drop at 575 or hopefully a little bigger?

Saw this video today - thought it was impressive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKBLJPPdKaA

[Hellgate]

I haven't miked my 575213-OS so I don't know if it is at .575 or not. I watched the video. Two things: The smoke looked awfully white which is suggestive of a BP substitute like APP or T7. Also he shot an awful lot of shots without any roughness developing in his ramming the minie home like you would expect to see if he used real black powder. Also he was shooting the 575494 SWC minie which I think weighs in around 300 grs. It is a nice, accurate light weight bullet.