.357 mag and 158 Speer LSWC, IMR 4227?

[jtwodogs]

I know right off the bat, the powder I am wanting to use is not the best powder for this endeavor. But the economy being what it is, I really don't have the money to run out and buy a pound of Unique, Bullseye or any number of powders that would be better suited.
I have some IMR 4227 about a pound. Not wanting to set the woods on fire with velocity, just a minimum dose with acceptable accuracy. It looks like the Speer bullet has a pretty hard lube covering. I will be shooting a Ruger Speed Six with a 4 inch barrel.

Anyone out there have any experience with this combo? Thanks for any and all info. relating to the above.

[SSGOldfart]

It's messy you'll come off the Range looking like a coal miner,to much unburned for my liking but you need to go easy try starting with 13gr.and max is 15gr.with 158gr bullet.

[243winxb]

15 grs IMR 4227 with 158 gr cast and Win mag primer is what i been shooting. My powder was made in Canada. Bought it in april 2015. Some was made in Australia. May not work well with a Speer soft swaged bullet?

[Outpost75]

Speer No.10 (1979) listed 10 grs. IMR4227 in .38 Special with their 158 swaged lead SWC for 886 fps,+P. Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th Edition (2010) lists in the .357 Mag. data on p.259 , 9.8 grains as starting load with #358429 at ctg. OAL 1.55" for 835 fps and 14,100 cup which is safe in. 38 Special.

[USSR]

Two problems with what you want to do: The Speer bullet is a swaged bullet and soft; and 4227 is a powder best suited for heavy charges behind heavy bullets. I love heavy 4227 loads with my cast 158gr - 170gr bullets, but would never use it for what you're trying to do.

Don

[jtwodogs]

Ok I do have some BE-86, but I don't think it would do much better.

[USSR]

Sure, BE-86 is similar to Unique and would be a much better powder that could be downloaded to a velocity that the Speer bullet could handle.

Don

[jtwodogs]

I have looked Alliant list 8.1 grains of BE-86 max for 158 grain @ 1156fps. I am thinking somewhere around 7-7.2 grains for 950-1,000 fps. would keep leading down with the Speer bullet?

[243winxb]

A low pressure load with slow powder is better then a faster burn rate powder at a higher pressure. In other words, if the maximum pressure has a slower, longer pressure increase, the better to avoid leading.

[Char-Gar]

All I can say is if you push those soft swaged bullets much past 850 fps, you will have leading. Been there and done that!

[243winxb]

Speer bullet MSDS. What do you think W/W means? Cant be wheel weights or could it?

[jmort]

I recall that these are 96 to 98% lead and 2 to 4% antimony. The waxy "lube" is not my favorite.

[243winxb]

Alliant data

[Outpost75]

All I can say is if you push those soft swaged bullets much past 850 fps, you will have leading. Been there and done that!

^^^^What he said!

[USSR]

Personally, I would use 5.5gr - 6.0gr with that bullet.

Don

[243winxb]

So, if pure works, a Speer swaged should also. :kidding:
Me and a couple other members here shoot my BRP 358-158, plain base SWC cast from pure lead and lubed with alox. I'm using a 5 grain load of WW 231 in my 8 3/8 686, with 357 mag cases, and the velocity clocks just a hair under 1,100 fps. Accuracy is outstanding even at long range and absolutely no leading. The alox application was touchy for best accuracy. I used a single coat that was thinned with 50% mineral spirits. When dry I dust the boolits with motor mica. At first this was only for handling, but I later found that it also makes a significant accuracy diference.
See post #8 http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?113559-pure-lead-boolits&p=1235444&viewfull=1#post1235444

[jtwodogs]

Well I have decided to keep the Speer bullet for .38 loads. I sold an old mold and have a Lee .357 158 grain RF coming with accompanying bullet sizer. Will be using powder coat instead of lube. I have pushed my nines close to 1200 fps with no noticeable leading.

[RoadBike]

Speer bullet MSDS. What do you think W/W means? Cant be wheel weights or could it?

W/W refers to percent "weight by weight" rather than something like volume by volume.

[243winxb]

W/W , could zero mean there is no lead at all in some bullets? Maybe Bismuth or zinc inside a copper jacket.?

[rintinglen]

w/w means percentage by weight per weight.
As Char-gar and Outpost have said. Soft, swaged bullets and high velocities are not a match made in heaven.
Alliant data (below) for the 357 and BE-86 suggests that your 7.0 grain load might be ok, but I'd drop to 6.5. I'd not use 4227 unless that was absolutely all I could find.357 Magnum110 gr JHPFederal1.556Fed 100BE-86 (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/be-86.aspx)9.6 1,324fps
-357 Magnum125 gr JHPFederal1.556Fed 100BE-86 (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/be-86.aspx)9.1 1,263fps
-357 Magnum158 gr Cast RNFPFederal1.576Fed 100BE-86 (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/be-86.aspx)8.1 1,156fps
-357 Magnum158 gr JHPFederal1.576Fed 100BE-86 (http://www.alliantpowder.com/products/powder/be-86.aspx)7.8 1,075fps-