Would a near full wadcutter design like the old #360344 be USEFUL today?

[FN in MT]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?8109-Ideal-360344-Info-Please&highlight=%23360344

On a local FB reloading page a member posted that he was casting some OLD .38 slugs and posted a shot of his #360344 bullets.

I got wondering if this would be a useful bullet to resurrect for use in .38 snub guns, or for small game in a std .38 Special?

This design has been discussed before, link at the top. Runs fairly large for a .38 Spcl but we could always specify a smaller diameter. As well as maybe deepen the lube grooves too.
I should have checked the NOE and a few other mold makers libraries first...probably NOT the first one to have this thought.

168654

[gwpercle]

I think it would.
I've found the 160 grain wadcutter design , Lyman #358432 and NOE 360-160-WC design to be the most accurate boolit in my 38 specials and 357 magnum .
Other than being a 150 grain wadcutter, which might be even better in 38 special.
You just might be on to something...
NOE has one that is very similar , NOE 360-148-WC-HB , eliminate that hollow base and I bet it would weigh 150 grains.
Gary

[Guesser]

I use the 360344 in 38 Special @.358 and in 38 S&W @.360. I don't run it in 357 because the 2 loob grooves are too shallow to hold enough loob to run it at magnum velocities. My 360344 drops at almost exactly the same weight with the same alloy as my 358432, I can't see any difference in accuracy but the 360344 is a better looking bullet when seated in the case, makes a very attractive cartridge.
Maybe a bullet mold made with larger loob grooves would be worth the effort and expense...

[tazman]

I have both the 358432 and a mold from modern bond that looks to be a copy of the 360344. I am using the modern bond boolit in my snubby with excellent results.

[azrednek]

I've been casting and shooting the Lee 148 double end, tumble lube wadcutter for better than 20 years. With mild loads of Bullseye it is the most accurate of any 38/357 I've loaded and shot. How effective it would be for self defense or small game I can't say.

[Frank46]

Probably saw a pic or two here but have seen almost the same boolit scaled up for the 44 special. Would think that for either caliber with all that weight on the front of the boolit would be a very accurate target or small game boolit as well. Frank

[lightload]

I have always heard that wadcutter slugs drop off in accuracy after 50 yards. If true, I'm certain that velocity is the big factor. Is my impression accurate? Perhaps some one can explain more about the issue. I must add that target accuracy out to 50 yards is a great thing , and my concern is academic.

[azrednek]

I must add that target accuracy out to 50 yards is a great thing , and my concern is academic.

Most my shooting with the Lee wadcutter with mild loads is at very short ranges. Rarely longer than 25 yards with most shooting in the 15-20 yard range. At long ranges it prints sideways from end over end tumbling.

[azrednek]

Probably saw a pic or two here but have seen almost the same boolit scaled up for the 44 special.

I also used the Lee 41 and 44 full wadcutters and had excellent accuracy with both at short ranges with mild loads. Just the opposite with Lee's 45 cal wadcutter shooting it in a Ruger chambered in 45 Colt. The most miserable failure was the Lyman 41 hollow based wadcutter. It shot just great but really pushed my patience casting with it.

[StrawHat]

I used the Lee DEWC for PPC competition. No tumbling at 50 yards but that was a mild load. Cast harder and pushed faster, it made a good small game load and should have been a good SD load.

Here is the article written by Ed Harris on using full charge WC loads.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/

Kevin

[Good Cheer]

I also used the Lee 41 and 44 full wadcutters and had excellent accuracy with both at short ranges with mild loads. Just the opposite with Lee's 45 cal wadcutter shooting it in a Ruger chambered in 45 Colt. The most miserable failure was the Lyman 41 hollow based wadcutter. It shot just great but really pushed my patience casting with it.

Absolutely on the hollow base. What an ordeal!

[RogerDat]

The NOE hollow base wad cutter mold comes with both the HB and plain base pins. So it is your choice which you cast. I have been looking at that mold. For plinking wife, daughter and grandkids the lighter weight than the 158 gr bullets I normally cast means less recoil and more control. I have a snubby that liked some commercial HBWC that it was fed.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=35_304&products_id=895&osCsid=iig8lttfimm08rdmiamsicqmu7

[tazman]

I have that hollow base mold in a 4 cavity. It can be a problem if the pins don't get hot enough to release properly. Once hot, they work fine. You just need to watch how you open the mold or you will crack the skirts.
The boolit shoots well in my revolvers.

[94Doug]

I'd like a nice copy of the original '344 if it does happen.

Doug

[Cowboy_Dan]

I just tried out that boolit scaled to .44 in my Bulldog the other day. Erring on the side of caution, I selected too light of a load and the group, though round, was two torsos wide at 20-ish yards. Kick it up a grain or two and I may have found my self defense load. Now to find one for the .433-640 Light for the speedloaders.

[marlin39a]

I've got an Ideal 358432, 160 gr Wadcutter Mold. I love it for fun out of my S&W 686 2 1/2". 3.0 grs of bullseye.

[FergusonTO35]

I currently carry the Lee 358-148-WC at 665 fps in my S&W 637. According to gel tests on Pocket Guns and Gear, this load actually outpenetrates pricey +P rounds when fired from a snubnose. I just got a Lyman 35891 also.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

An ideal bullet for the .38 S&W as it minimizes protrusion into the case. I loaded some for a buddy's S&W revolver. The best load I found was in an old Lyman manual, and used 7625 powder. He says it is much more effective on armadillos than the factory round nose stuff.

[beezapilot]

I have that mold in a single cavity, pre-vent that someone vented (Probably my Dad)- haven't casted with it in a bunch of years. I don't run afoul of the S&S rules and irritate a moderator... but I think I could be talked out of that....

For what it is worth- my Dad carried a .38 Colt OP for a great many years, this was his bullet of choice when it was in his shoulder holster

[Fishman]

The H & G .358 009 mould has a full meplat like the wad cutter pictured by the op. I have one but have not tested the design fully.

[.22-10-45]

My Ideal #360344 has become my favorite .38 Special bullet. I am using it in an original Colt Bisley circa 1905 over 1.8gr. Bullseye..shoots to sights at 20yds & cuts 1 ragged hole.

[azrednek]

A little off subject. Friend of mine used to cram two full wadcutters in one cartridge. He used it as his SD ammo in one of many revolvers he rotated in and out of his insurance office. I never saw him load or shoot the double slug loads. He claimed using an old wood file knocking off the button nose on the inner slug and with his 357's he had a hollow base in upside down as the upper slug. He said he also reduced the length of the hollow based slug. Far as I know he never used his double slug loads for a bad guy.

[Thin Man]

I have a pair of Modern-Bond molds in the fat SWC design. These are the D358582 (150 gr.) and the D358627 (160 gr.) molds, very similar to the Lyman 358344 pattern. While the catalog notes these as wadcutter, they perform like a SWC. They use up less powder space in the case and extend out of the case to provide guidance for transition from cylinder to barrel. From testing in several different revolvers the 150 grain boolit is the accuracy winner, but only slightly better than the 160 grain boolit. I can push either of these to match SWC speeds without pushing the pressure limits, as the extended noses of these boolits are smaller than bore diameter. Bores are commonly .350" and boolit noses are .348", close but still not a full contact ride.

Thin Man