? staining an old CVA ML stock ?

[725]

Working on an old CVA ML stock. Have striped it down with a cabinet scrape & sand paper to the point no prior stain / finish remains. It's some kind of white colored wood and in the past, I've not had this kind of wood take a stain well. Any tricks of the trade out there. I'm a fair woodworker but just not sure how to make this wood take a good stain.
Thanks, 725

[Nobade]

I've had good luck with Fiebing's leather dye from Tandy Leather. It's aniline based and penetrates well. I did a couple of my rifles with it that had those hard white birch stocks and they look nice. When it first goes on it looks green, but after you wipe it that goes away.

-Nobade

[Col4570]

Potassium Permanganate Crystals,make a strong solution with water and wipe on with a cloth.this will give a good brown colour,Then finish with True Oil.If you get it on your Hands,Houshold Bleach will remove it.If you get it on Clothing it is there forever.Usually it can be obtained from a Pharmacy.It was often used to prevent Trench Foot by the Military as a weak solution to soak the Feet in,it was known as Pink Water.

[nicholst55]

I recently refinished a set of Korean M1 Garand wood; not sure what type of wood it is - similar but not identical to birch. I followed the method used in an article that I had bookmarked, but have since deleted. I used Rit brown fabric dye as a base, and then added some Chestnut Ridge Military Stock Stain over the top. I finished it with a few coats of Teak Oil, and it turned out quite well IMHO.

You can buy Rit dyes at Wal Mart for $3-4 or possibly your local grocery store; Brownells stocks Chestnut Ridge or you can order it direct.

Here we go, this is the thread where I asked for advice: http://m14forum.com/stock/186095-advice-staining-korean-m1-stock.html

And here's the article that I referenced earlier: http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=83923&sid=5f32bbb91fcd0d1b356751b5024221cb

[WRideout]

I once repaired a walnut coffee table with a piece of hard maple. I used brown shoe dye, then finished it with varnish. It seemed to take the color well.

Wayne

[725]

You guys are the best. Lots of info for me to work with. Thanks, 725

[Blackwater]

I've used the pure powdered analine stains on maple tops on guitars, and you have to learn to mix it to just the right strength, and repeat coats, to get it just like you want. And BTW, just because the wood is white doesn't mean it will be difficult to stain. Might be a couple of hard to stain woods, though, and shoe dye (if you can FIND it! I've been looking for brown in my local stores for a WHILE and can't find any!) is one that I've seen recommended many times. Just haven't used it myself, yet, though I am looking for some to stain some maple knife handles with. Murphy's Law at work, maybe?

[gnoahhh]

It doesn't matter what kind of dye or stain you use, it'll likely turn out blotchy if you don't condition the wood before applying it. Get a can of Minwax Wood Conditioner and follow the directions on the label. The gun was likely finished with tinted lacquer at the factory which is one way to finish birch wood without resorting to a conditioner (and it's cheap for outfits like CVA to use on their utilitarian guns).

I'm a firm believer in Behlen's SolarLux dyes. They are one of the few products out there that won't fade from UV light exposure (the big enemy of all finishes). Analine dyes are great, too. I never liked leather dyes on wood. They tend to be too dense for my tastes, hiding a lot of subtle grain characteristics. Best bet in future is not to undertake refinishing birch. Stick with walnut, cherry, and such that doesn't need a stain give them character. Maple is another one that may require wood conditioner, depending on the species of maple, hardness, density, etc.

I repeat- if you don't condition that birch first you will end up with a splotchy finish, and asking yourself why you didn't leave well enough alone!

[leftiye]

The one I had was maple (no guarantee that yours is), I used aqua fortis, and got really beautiful (and authentic) results. Worth knowing is that the softer western maple (box elder) also has sufficient sugar to stain well with aqua fortis. I did some Handi Rifle stocks (box wood -white something) and got pretty good looking results.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I doubt if this stock is oak, but some other woods react nearly as well to ammonia fuming, which acts evenly and doesn't obscure the grain. It ought to be stronger than household ammonia, although with oak the effect was first noticed after long-term exposure to horse ammonia, and a horse isn't unfortunate enough to produce even household grade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia_fuming

Leftiye is right that direct application of acid may produce a good colour. Aquafortis is nitric acid, and other acids are worth trying if they are easier to get. Careful controlled searing of the wood with a blowtorch can also be good, but it takes practice on scrap wood first, and you need to use a piece of sheet metal or something to protect any sharp edges. It has been claimed that the makers of the old long rifles sometimes produced a fake tiger-stripe finish by burning off a binding of tarred string, but some people deny this ever worked.

[northmn]

I have made a few long rifles and studied the makers. They did have techniques for fake tiger striping. As almost every rifle I made was some variation of maple I found the biggest "secret" was not to get to carried away with the sanding. White woods need a little rougher finish to stain evenly. 220 is about as far as I go and 180 might not be all bad. When i used to go down to the real slick surfaces with finer paper and steel wool and the stain would almost jump off the stock without penertrating.
As to finishes on a CVA muzzle loader? I did a couple and used water based stains like Tru Oil makes. Water or alcohol do not cloud the figure like oil based stains. Most CVA's I have seen have very little figure so about any stain will work.
Original long rifles were not finished very finely. Many were just hand scraped to final finish and some were finished with a wet process of sand applied to a cloth. Stains were not elaborate and some almost looked painted. Often finished with a varnish. Wood was not considered so pretty back then and almost all furniture was laquered.

DP

[waksupi]

Leather dye.

[Mk42gunner]

The fist kit I ever built was a CVA Kentucky Pistol kit. The stock was some kind of whiteish wood, don't know for sure just what it was. I used the walnut stain from a Birchwood Casey stock refinishing kit and it turned out okay.

No guarantee the stain is the same stuff now as it was in the mid seventies, but it did work then.

For you guys looking for shoe dye, if you have a farm and ranch store that has an equine section, look there. The ones here usually have a two or three different colors of leather dye to choose from.

Robert

[725]

You have all been very generous with your time & comments. Thanks. So much to learn .....................
725

[Col4570]

The Brown Bess Musket Metalwork was kept bright by using Brick Dust (crushed Brick) this imparted a redish Brown to the woodwork.The whole gun was then oiled probably Raw Linseed.Furniture makers also used Brick Dust to get a fine finish to the Woodwork.

[John Boy]

Burnt Umber paint color mixed with boiled linseed oil. Blend to your liking will look like walnut