Bad Day For An Experiment

[Bent Ramrod]

But the cheerful Meteorologist on TV said the gusty winds were just going to stick around for a week. I had the truck already loaded with shooting stuff and half the experiment done and wanted to do it over for confirmation. I sort of got it, I guess; maybe.

I bought a Montana Roughrider Sharps in .44-77 caliber as a "moving in" present. It came with a set of loading dies, a couple of grease groove boolit moulds and about 200 cases made from .348 Winchester, half of them neck turned and half simply shaped and cut to length.

Boolits from the moulds shot OK, but they were under 400 gr and probably not for long range use. A friend had a .44-70 cut with the Kelly Roos chamber and he said he was getting out of the paper patch business so sold me a Steve Brooks mould, 525 gr, casting about 0.426". Patching with Dietzgen Vellum paper they fit in the unturned cases very well, and seemed to be trying to stay under 2 MOA at 300 M if I could control the rather light rifle off the bench. However, the holes in the targets were decidedly oval. The rifle was made by Shiloh in the mid-90's and it had their 19-inch twist barrel. A check on certain Internet sites indicated a fair consensus (hotly contested by a few) that the Brooks boolit was too long for the rifling twist.

Well, darn! I didn't want to shorten the mould but was reluctant to move out to 500 M without addressing the "tipping" issue. I remembered from my reading that back in the 1980's the Canadian black powder shooters used the hollow point version of the Lyman/Ideal 457125 Government boolit for their long range shooting. Not a lot of technical detail I could recall; it just reportedly worked better. Something about moving the center of gravity towards the rear offsetting the vagaries of casting hollow points and still improving on the flight of the solid versions of the boolits.

I looked for the reference, but since I moved here and rearranged my library by subject, category and author, I can't find a blessed thing. But if the Canadians were using 22-inch twists in .45 caliber rifles (likely back then), maybe a shift in the center of gravity towards the rear was stabilizing the flight of their boolits. I thought it might be worth checking it out, anyway.

My trusty Dalton 6 Lathe has a collet arrangement and I was able to drill 1/16" holes in the noses of the Brooks boolits to various depths. More or less arbitrarily, I chose 1/8", 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" for the depths, with a Control group of undrilled boolits. The charge was what had worked best with this boolit, 77 gr of Swiss 1FG. I used MVA target sights that I had transferred to this rifle to see what it was capable of.

A couple days back it was light breezes at the range and I decided to shoot five each of the boolits I had prepared at 300 M Results were as follows:

No hole: 5" vertical x 5-1/4" horizontal (3 in 2" vertical x 0" horizontal); holes noticeably oval.

1/8" hole: 6" vertical x 8" horizontal (4 in 3" vertical x 2-3/4" horizontal); holes still oval

1/4" hole: 2-1/8" vertical x 4-1/2" horizontal; holes slightly less oval

3/8" hole: 5-1/4" vertical x 8-3/4" horizontal; holes slightly tippy

1/2" hole: 3-1/16" vertical x 3-1/16" horizontal; holes round or nearly so.

So I figured I'd repeat the experiment with camera in tow to get pictures of more spectacular groups. But today was a howling 6 o'clock gale, with gusts and the occasional dust devil. Nonetheless I persevered.

168590

This is with no hole in the nose. Pretty bad vertical, obviously, and pretty noticeable tipping. I thought I was holding the rifle pretty well, but I do have my good and bad days as a shooter.

168593

Here is the 1/8" drilled hole. Again, noticeable tipping and grossly vertical compared to the group a few days earlier.

168594

The 1/4" drilled boolits have the same vertical. I only photoed four of them and then found the fifth above the target paper. However, the oval holes seem to be less pronounced.

168595

Here are the 3/8" drilled samples. There was one out in the white, making the group 7-1/2" vertical x 11" horizontal. The holes might still be a little oval, but not bad.

168596

And finally, here are the boolits with 1/2" deep holes in the noses. The group was 4" vertical x 5-7/8" horizontal. They still seem a little bit tippy, but the worst of the ovals seem to be diminished, at least compared to some of the wobblers above.

Don't know if this proves anything conclusively, besides that some days I should leave the rifles in the safe and watch TV game shows instead. It does look, though, as us Scientists constantly aver, that "More Research Is Needed.":mrgreen: Drilling 1/16" holes in lead 1/2" deep (or deeper) is not a lot of fun; I may have to figure out how to hollow point the mould after I get some kind of optimum depth that is reproducible on the target.

I did not shoot either set of these groups in the order listed. I figured with my variable abilities and getting beat on by the recoil, picking the hollow point depths more or less at random, and doing the two sets in different orders, would at least keep as much of "me" out of the experiment as possible.

[Don McDowell]

If that is a Shiloh barrel , it will work well with patched bullets from .432 -.435 before patching. Keep the length to 1.1 -1.3 inches.
Those 348 cases will cause you more headache than help, they don't have great consistency in the necks, uniforming the case neck thickness and a good annealing program will help, but going with the Captec 44-77 brass is the best way to go.
Anything over 1.3 inches long greaser or slick just won't consistently hold up past 600 yards, and can be pretty sporadic even at those distances. I've got the battle scars to prove it.

[Lead pot]

BRR.

If your shooting the Shiloh Mt. Rough Rider it has a 1/19 ROT. I have three .44 Shiloh's 1 .44-77 and 2 .44-90bn's.

With the 19 twist I found out that trying to make a bullet with an elliptical ogive shoot past midrange is like bumping heads on the line. I gave up shooting bullets like the popular "Money" bullets in my 19 ROT rifles.

I settled shooting bullets with the original profile used in the past, not because it is what the original loads used, but because they work the best at all ranges I have shot at past 1500 yards. They work!
I use a little heavier bullets then Don has listed. I use .485 gr to 505 gr that run from 1.325" to 1.430" in length and they cut round holes.

Below are the 4 .44 calibers I shoot. .44-77, .44-2-5/8bn (.44-90bn) .44-100 Rem St. and the .44-75/2.5 Ballard. All 4 of those calibers shoot the bullet profile on the first two Bn's. I keep the prolates and elliptical's you see in the straight walled cases for the 16 and 17 ROT so I don't pull out the rest of what little hair I have left trying to make them shoot in the 19 twist bores.

http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_IMG_1978_zps0dcb0b6e.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_1978_zps0dcb0b6e.jpg.html)
.44-90 bn @ 135 yards with barrel sights getting ready for a Buff hunt
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_IMG_0403.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_0403.jpg.html)

Using a scope for load development @ 200 yards.
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_IMG_0405.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_0405.jpg.html)

[Yellowhouse]

Kurt, isn't .426 a tad on the small side? Shiloh 44's are .436 bore right?

[Bent Ramrod]

No description on the box for the Brooks mould other than the number "5228." It's 0.427" diameter and 1.542" long. The nose isn't extremely long or pointy; just a gradual taper from the straight shank to a round nose. The .44-70 my friend has is pretty impressive with long boolits, but I think his is a tighter twist. Jerry Van Wey put his barrel on, and I think it was a Badger or Green Mountain. The only reason he sold me the mould was he didn't want to mess with paper patch boolits; he said they shot as well as grease groove ones but were more hassle than he wanted.

A .44-77, though, looks kind of dumb with a grease groove boolit. I don't think the ammunition was ever anything but black powder and paper patched, if I remember Keith's observations correctly. With a grease groove boolit, it looks like a .43 Spanish. I want to evoke buffalo hunters taming the West when I shoot one of these rifles, not campesinos fighting a revolution against one tin-pot dictatorship in order to establish another tin-pot dictatorship.

I recently got a two cavity Accurate mould that casts 470 and 490 gr boolits with a small meplat. Same design, with the short one 1.349" and the long one 1.374", both 0.430" diameter. I may get a KAL adjustable in 0.431-0.432 in future. I patch dry, and the thinnest paper I can find in quantity is 0.0015", so a 0.435" might be too much. Still kind of feeling my way around on the fat boolit/thin paper ideal balance.

From the load work I've done so far, the Brooks seems to do its best at 300 M with 77 gr of Swiss 1F, the Accurate 490 with 85 gr and the 470 at 85-90 gr. The Brooks does show oval holes, with the others much rounder. I'm still going to mess around and see what I can do with the Brooks mould. Speeding it up with heavier powder charges didn't seem to help accuracy.

Don, I have a hundred Captech/Jamison cases blown out, cleaned and ready to go, but I wanted to do as much of the load development as possible with the modified .348s and conserve the more authentic cases. The unturned .348s really fit the paper patch bullets well, and I anneal the necks and keep them trimmed. I wish the previous owner had neck-turned fewer of them; I guess those will be offhand practice cartridges with the light grease groove boolits. I'm thinking of getting another hundred cases from Captech, just in case. The way things are going, brass cases may be the new currency before long.

Lead Pot, those are impressive groups, all right, especially the barrel sight one. My rifle came with the standard barrel sights and a sporting tang sight. I think after I've wrung out the loads with the target sights I'll put the other ones back on and learn to use them. The gun is pretty light for a target rifle.

So far, I haven't seen much of any problem getting the .44-77 to shoot well, at least out to 300 M. Mine does seem to generate a crud zone ahead of the chamber with noticeable resistance to a cleaning patch, perhaps corroborating the stories about fouling ahead of the chamber, but ultimately, the barrel cleans out fine. It might be a little less versatile than a straight case as far as powder charges and compression, but the good loads work, at least when I don't have a camera handy. It's not that much of a bottleneck; not like a .40-90; more like a slightly more extreme .40-65. The neck makes a handy space for extra wads, grease cookies and the like. I've been doing a little experimentation with grease cookies and blow tubes but it's only a start. Except for the Quigley buffalo, I haven't gone beyond mid-range much, so anything that works at those distances will be fine by me.

Some of the problem with verticals the second time out might have been me trying my homemade Bore Pigs, which swept most of the goo out of the barrel, but the dry patch afterwards was darker than I normally like to see. The first day's groups were with the normal persnickety cleaning and drying in between. With the gale howling around my ears the second day, getting out of there early was a priority.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

bent ramrod,
a bullet 1.542" long in 45 cal would require a 16 twist, so a min of 16 would be required in 44 cal.
any sign of tipping at closer ranges just gets worse as the range increases.
j b m ballistics might be worth a visit here. looh for a stability factor of 1.8 plus as you plug in different bullet lengths.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Don McDowell]

There's a bunch of difference in the groups you get from the 348 brass and the Jamison/Captec. 348 brass is good for when there's nothing else to do. Jamison/Captec is for when you want the best groups you can get. I have the first 200 of those cases that were sent out of the factory, they are still going strong.
I have a dual diameter bullet that when set at 1.3 length will shoot just as well at 200 yds as 1000, and using the right powder and wad combo will shoot well enough to get a 10 pig pin with no fouling control other than a blow tube.
.432 is a good diameter for gongbongin and hunting, but when you get serious about accuracy in that rifle you'll be much happier with a .435-.436 bullet wrapped in 8 lb paper.

[Chill Wills]

A 44-70 Kelly Roos paperpatch chamber? Interesting. I never knew Kelly even played with Paperpatch. I know Al Sledge did.

[Chill Wills]

Hmmm, you must have got home safe Don :D8-) Me too.

[Don McDowell]

Yes, we ran into town, stopped at Godfathers Pizza, filled up and headed north. Got home just before the rains hit.
Was good shooting with you and Jack again.
See ya at Raton.

[Lead pot]

Kurt, isn't .426 a tad on the small side? Shiloh 44's are .436 bore right?

Yes it would be. The bore is .438/446 groove. Where did I say ,426??

[Lead pot]

Bent Ramrod

Yes they are good groups. But when you really want and need a good group I cant repeat it. both of the .44-90 bn's and the .44-100 heavy barreled Shiloh have shot well, but not at demand.

The best shooter I have is the Heavy Krieger barreled Shiloh .44-100 Rem Straight. It has a 1.3X35" straight round barrel chambered with my reamer and it is the most reliable good shooter I have. It has shot the most consistently tight groups.
These three 5 shot groups are the best I have shot in one days setting but they where close at 135 yards using the MVA scope shot off the bench.
http://i704.photobucket.com/albums/ww43/Kurtalt/th_IMG_1318_zps39db44dd.jpg (http://s704.photobucket.com/user/Kurtalt/media/IMG_1318_zps39db44dd.jpg.html)

[Don McDowell]

My best long range, and distances in between bullet in the 44-77 Shiloh is this one I had Brooks make with his new postel nose shape. It's .435 and 1.29 inches long. Weighs at 460 gr. Wrap it in 8 lb seth cole paper just short of the ogive, and seat it on top of 77 gr of Eynsford 2f , a napa rubber cork wad and a thin felt wad.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f358/Ranch137/001_zpsf81638a7.jpg

[Yellowhouse]

Yes it would be. The bore is .438/446 groove. Where did I say ,426??


Here: Boolits from the moulds shot OK, but they were under 400 gr and probably not for long range use. A friend had a .44-70 cut with the Kelly Roos chamber and he said he was getting out of the paper patch business so sold me a Steve Brooks mould, 525 gr, casting about 0.426". Patching with Dietzgen Vellum paper they fit in the unturned cases very well, and seemed to be trying to stay under 2 MOA at 300 M if I could control the rather light rifle off the bench. However, the holes in the targets were decidedly oval. The rifle was made by Shiloh in the mid-90's and it had their 19-inch twist barrel. A check on certain Internet sites indicated a fair consensus (hotly contested by a few) that the Brooks boolit was too long for the rifling twist.

[Lead pot]

I see, that was in Bent Ramrods post.
Well an option might be using three thousands thick paper like Southworth 20# 25% cotton
fine Business Paper.

[Bent Ramrod]

That was me with the .426". Recent boolits cast are more like 0.427". The papers I use now are either drawing vellum at 0.0025" or tracing vellum at 0.0015" or maybe a little less. I use the Dutch Schoultz method of measuring that he uses on cloth patch material for muzzleloaders: crank that thimble in! No "feather touch" in this case.

Quoting poundage in the paper tells me nothing. I've seen the same poundage in different papers vary by 0.007" or more. I sneak my micrometer in and measure a sample sheet. I have a ton of Dietzgen and can get Strathmore about any place, so except for shooting up all my odds and ends of oddball paper, I think I'll stick with those.

The Roos chamber wasn't a paper patch chamber. My friend shot paper patch boolits in it, got bored, and went back to his Brooks grease grooves.

As mentioned, this is a light barrel rifle and unlikely to be on the line at 1000 yards. Gong bongin' is pretty much where I'm at, with a little silhouette shooting to keep my hand in and a lot of experimental stuff just to see what happens. But that boolit of yours is intriguing, Don. Maybe when I've wrung out the rest of this stuff...

One of the shooters here, Chip Mate, did pretty good a few years back (forget whether it was Phoenix or Raton) with a 1/19" Shiloh .44-77 with .348 reformed cases and grease groove boolits. He did have to turn the necks and do some finagling, but there didn't seem to be anything wrong with the cases per se. I'm not going to give up on them myself, at least for now.

[Don McDowell]

It was a year ago at the Creedmoor Cup that Chip really shot well with the 44-77. I don't believe he used either the 348 cases or a bullet longer than 1.3 for that match. But if you are fortunate enough to be able to talk with him it would pay you dividends big time to listen to what he tells you about shooting the 44-77.

[Chill Wills]

The Roos chamber wasn't a paper patch chamber. My friend shot paper patch boolits in it, got bored, and went back to his Brooks grease grooves..

That is what I guessed.

I never have been good enough with PP to get bored with it. In fact, I would need to get a lot better to even compete with them again. My best bet if I want to win a match is with GG bullets.

[Lead pot]

BR your right about the # weight and thickness. I have 7.5# that is thicker then 9#. It all depends how much sizing the paper has to keep the ink from bleeding through or the pulp used. I also have 9# that ranges from .0016 to .002 thick.

Most of my paper is Southworth 25% 75% and 100% cotton cockle finish and I cant go by poundage. I mark the boxes by thickness.

[Bent Ramrod]

The Tucson Rifle Club is indeed blessed with a lot of Major Leaguers in BPCR shooting. I hope to learn a lot from them. The BPCR Silhouette matches are once a month, and then the next week is the .22 BPCR Silhouette match, so I'll get a lot of practice and observation in. But Gong Shoots like the Quigley are what I like the best.

My Jamison cases had just showed up when Chip asked me about them. I told him they all fit the gun fine but obviously needed to be blown out to form the shoulder. I would think if he had used them, he'd be familiar with them already. He did say that a 1.3" or under boolit was indicated. I think his was a 500 grain grease groove Money boolit. The Shiloh thread I read said he'd used BACO "stretched" brass, which I think are reformed .348.

Chill Wills, none of my paper patch guns are ready for prime time yet either. The .44 is still in the Development stage. The .45-70 shoots acceptably, but I need to practice wiping and drying the bore on the clock while lying prone with the gun on cross sticks. I don't bend very easily at my age. But my .45 grease groove load is established and there's no burning hurry to change.

Here's the rifle. Too cute to resist:mrgreen::

168710

Sorry for the clutter around it. I'm going to be unpacking forever.

[Don McDowell]

Watch out for the Z1 and Z2 Taylor boys there at Tucson.. they'll have you shooting all sorts of weird stuff in short order..

[Bent Ramrod]

They do like those fancy Ballards for the black powder stuff. That CPA Stevens .22 Zack uses is to lust for. He said he won it somewhere.

Where I used to shoot, Sharps replicas of one manufacturer or another seemed to predominate, with Remington RBs and Browning BPCRs in that order. Here, Sharps are merely part of the Cultural Diversity, with at least as many High Walls and Ballards as Sharps.

[Chill Wills]

Hepburns' rule! ;-) 8-)

[Don McDowell]

Hepburns are nice. I did find out how to readjust those set triggers, and now just need to find a couple minutes to see if mine is back up and running..
Just about got all the stuff ready for the Borchardt rebuild.

[Lead pot]

Being a life long plumber I should have a Hepburn. Lord knows I changed enough flush handles. :) I have a chance at a .40-50 Schuetzen in a original with a extra buttstock but I have more shooters then I can shoot now.

Kurt

[Don McDowell]

Ordered a new 1885 40-65 for Carol, almost went with a low wall in 40-50.

[Lead pot]

His .40-50 Hep shoots very well. But I only see him shoot the original flat nosed light bullets with smokeless powder.

[Don McDowell]

I'm really tickled with the way this Hepburn is shooting the 360 gr. original shaped patch bullet. It's .400 diameter before patching, have to seat it deep, but will hold 2 minutes or less at the rams.

[Bent Ramrod]

I took the .44-77 out today to continue the effort to determine the effectiveness (if any) of hollow-pointing patched boolits that are over length for the rifle's twist. It was a rare, relatively calm morning and I got out early. What breeze was blowing came from about 6:30.

172957

I had shot up all my undrilled 524 grain (1.542" length) Brooks boolits trying to find sight settings at 385 M in a gale the last time I was out, so dropped back to 300 M for this campaign. Frittered away five rounds with 1/8" diameter x 5/8" deep holes just getting on target, and then tried five with 3/4" deep holes.

172964

The group is 2-3/4" vertical x 7-1/4" horizontal, with four in 2-1/8" horizontal, but three of the holes still look oval. I tried the 7/8" drilled boolits next:

172973

Three of the five holes look fairly concentric, but two still look a little "tippy." The vertical here was 1-1/2" and the horizontal 5-3/4" with four shots into 2-1/4" horizontal. I then fired five shots with the 1/8" hole drilled 1" deep.

172976

I think by now I was getting kind of beat around. Also people had showed up at the range and my concentration was being distracted ("Is that a Sharps? Wow!" etc. :mrgreen:) The group was 5-1/2" vertical x 3-1/4" horizontal, with four in 3-1/2" vertical. Two or three of these holes are kind of oval-looking too.

The 5/8" holes looked pretty tipped as well, and one was a keyhole, although that one might have been the first one I drilled, which had the melted lead from the drilling irregularly distributed around the hole in the nose. (If you want to drill deep holes in lead, Kroil is Thee Stuff. Otherwise, the lead melts and sticks to everything. Even with Kroil, it isn't exactly a fun endeavor, but we must suffer for Science.)

I have five each of the series 5/8" to 1" deep left so I will try to repeat the experiment at 385 M if I can find a decent day, which should point up any tipping even more definitively. I had read that setting the center of gravity back would allow boolits that are long for the rifle's twist to shoot better.

Even at 300 M, I have to put in a lot of left windage for little or no wind. I zeroed the rifle with different boolits, and maybe these follow some different trajectory out there. Certainly wasted some good control groups finding out that little data point.

I am kind of pleased with the improvements in my bench technique with this light rifle. One got thrown out horizontally on a couple groups, but they were all under 2 MOA at this distance. It is necessary for me to get in early and grab the low bench with the low stool; most of the benches here are kind of high for me.

I used Brent's technique of the bore pig followed by a dry patch, but since I leave the bore pigs soaked when I insert them into the breech, I followed with another dry patch just in case.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/sidepourmouldforlargewhitworthRifle001.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/sidepourmouldforlargewhitworthRifle001.jpg.html)
I have been using hollow base Hollow point bullets for a large calibre whitworth rifle.The nose has a 6MM wooden plug.I modified a Lyman Mould to side pour in order to cast both cavities.Although a muzzle loading bullet some of its design might be applicable to your experiments.There is 1/4" of lead dividing the two cavities.the bullets are close to Joseph Whitworths design but with Lube canelures.

[Col4570]

http://i1052.photobucket.com/albums/s452/livebattery/001-39.jpg (http://s1052.photobucket.com/user/livebattery/media/001-39.jpg.html)
Another view showing the Plug and base.I made a shorter base cavity plug to lengthen the bullet.Regards.

[Bent Ramrod]

Thanks, Col4570.

In my case, a hollow base might set the center of gravity forward, negating the goal of setting it back with the hollow point. Of course, I don't know the extent of the slumping the boolit does when hit by the BP combustion products at high velocity; it may be that the hollow base might get shallower as the boolit slugs up into the rifling, and move the CG back that way.

I was hoping to get a hollow point pin fitted to the mould as soon as I found the optimum depth. So far, there seem to be slight improvements (2 or 3 in 5 not tipping instead of all of them) but it looks like a quick resolution to this question isn't going to happen.

But it's an excuse to do a lot of shooting, so it's not a bad deal at all.:)

[Don McDowell]

Drop the bullet length to 1.3 inches and group size will be much better in that Shiloh.

[Col4570]

Bent Ramrod,I see your point,my hollow Base hollow point bullets Hit nose on at 500 Yards.Apparently Whitworh tried a Standard Length Minnie Bullet for his Large calibre rifle .565 Calibre and 1 in 26" Twist and it failed to perform well he then tried a Longer bullet which was too heavy he then went for the Hollow Base Hollow nose bullet and it balanced Out ok.The wooden Plug stops the risk of Bullet Slump at the nose.If trying this type of bullet it must sit on the Powder minus a card or Wad.

[Lead pot]

What you have to watch with a hollow based bullet is not to overload it. This is some thing they found out loading the muskets with the mini bullets. With a heavy load the skirt will blow out as the bullet clears the muzzle and this destroys the accuracy.
I have found this true with the bullets I have recovered undamaged from snow banks. Even shallow dished cup based bullets show this problem.
I remember reading one of Pope writings about this and he also mentioned that the base of a mini was a lot of times packed with lard for increased loads during a skirmish so they could keep loading because the lard kept the fouling soft in the hot barrels.

A hollow point bullet is great for expansion but it also changes the balance of the bullet. But it does not change the relationship with the ROT and bullet length. It will change the weight in relation to the length.
Kurt

[country gent]

One thing that is often overlooked in stability of a projectile is velocity. With you hollow pointed bullets ( cast from thesame mould) they are getting lighter as thehollow point gets deeper. If loaded over the same load velocity may be slightly higher showing the results your seeing. A little increase in velocity may be eough to start stabilizing the bullets better. Rate of twist required is determined by Length of projectile and velocity. Changeing the velocity or length of the projectile affects the stability. As a control or simple quick test you might face the bases down .060 and one batch down .125 to see the effect length has.

[BRUCE MOULDS]

velocity and rifling twist are the 2 things that must be matched to bullet length for optimum stability.
with black powder, velocity variations are not huge enough to make a significant variation in rate of spin in order to affect stability.
the long and short of this is that hollow pointing bullets and/or adding plugs is irrelevant .
what don says is the thing to do - go for a shorter bullet.
he has been there.
keep safe,
bruce.

[Bent Ramrod]

The Monsoon rain and winds of last night turned into a nice, muggy, nearly windless day. I moved out to 385 meters and fired the remaining rounds. Wasted some undrilled ones before I could get on-target as usual. The ground was wet, so no dust puffs could be seen as guidance.

The first was the 5/8" drilled boolits:

173207

This one was kind of weird, with two groups of two shots and one keyhole above the target. Two of the holes are rather oval, as is (of course) the keyhole. In looking for a reason for the latter, I found patch fragments on the ground in front of the target:

173208

I guess I wrapped that one too tight, or something. The next one was drilled 3/4" deep:

173209

These were in 5-1/4 vertical by 6-1/2 horizontal. One or two of the holes seem to be tipped. The boolits with 7/8" deep holes were fired next:

173210

The group was pretty terrible, with only three in a recognizable cluster of 3-1/2" x 5". I may have been getting punchy by then. Only two of the holes are not oval. Finally the 1-inch deep drilled boolits were fired:

173211

Here only four holes showed up on the target, 5-1/2" vertical x 5" horizontal. Two of the holes look tipped.

The tipping on the holes does not seem to be a great deal worse for the extra distance. I'll drill some of the least tippy depths and try them at 500 meters next time.

Finally, for Don and Bruce, here is a target with 85 gr Swiss 1Fg and a 456 gr boolit from the Red River Rick adjustable mould, set to drop a 1.329" long slug:

173212

The holes are round and the group is about 4" vertical by 3" horizontal. I'm still going to continue experimenting with the longer boolit, though. :mrgreen: