Short barreled 44 mag for personal defense

[paraord]

So I've really fallen in love with the 44 mag, and casting as well. I have been shooting my SBH every weekend in my side yard, 50-100 rounds nornally. Now that 7.5" barrel is not the most concealable firearm I own. When I CC a wheelgun it's normally my 4" 686 smith and Wesson but I've been thinking about carrying a 44 mag when I can swing it.

So my question is if anyone has experience with a 3" 44 mag, what kind, what kind of loads, how did it do etc. Im kinda stuck between a Redhawk and a 629. This will be strictly a ccw gun.
I'm open to opinions and suggestions.

[Thumbcocker]

I had a 3.75" bisley that shot well with 429421"s and 9.0 of power pistol. Same load also does well with 4 5/8" barrels.

[Blackwater]

I have a friend who just last week bought a 3 3/4" Ruger SB stainless, and he's thrilled with it. He's getting 985 fps. with 240 gr. Oregon Trail RNFP's in .44 Special brass with 8.0 gr. of Unique. He's getting 1" groups at 25 yds. with that load in his gun, and he's looking for a shoulder bag to carry it in for SD. He's got some 200 gr. OT RNFP's on the way. He doesn't want overpenetration, and figures the 200's will provide that. Probably will use, or at least start out, with the same powder charge in Special brass, according to him. Full house loads with 296 and JHP's are a bear in it, according to him, and he's really pleased with his accuracy. How you carry an N-frame or similar sized gun is, in my and all the guys I know's experience, really depends on what holster you choose to carry it in.

On an interesting side note, a friend of mine went to Canada some years back, before all the terrorism security was quite what it is today, and in crossing the border, they went through his motor home with a fine toothed comb, checking evey nook and cranny. They let him through. What they didn't know, was this guy, a rather brazen fellow at times, was wearing a nice heather colored wool sport coat with a tie, and under his coat was a M-29 6.5" .44 loaded to the gills in a Bianchi shoulder holster he'd had for years. They checked everything but HIM! And the gun was so well concealed that they didn't have a clue! So it CAN be done, and FWIW, with a gun that heavy, I think I'd look real hard at the better shoulder rigs for concealment. FWIW?

[Outpost75]

The El Paso Saddlery C-Force holster is an IWB rig which is great for concealment of a 4" or 5" S&W N-frame, or 4-5/8" or 5-1/2" Ruger SBH or Vaquero. In my short-barrel .44 Magnums I load the 200-grain Hornady XTP with 8-9 grains of Bullseye, very accurate, controllable in DA and effective.

[Gray Fox]

I would look for a 4" 629 round butt and carry it in one of Sam Andrews' upside down shoulder rigs (Andrews Custom Leather) that doesn't require a connection to a belt. I just got mine back from Sam yesterday after he replaced the 10-year-old elastic strapping for free under his lifetime warrantee policy. I carry either a 4" S&W .45 acp or .45 Colt in it, although it fits any of my 4" N frames just as well. Just as an aside, Same recently provided all the holster rigs for the remake of the Magnificent Seven and his five shot Webly .45 also has a cameo appearance in the film. GF

[W.R.Buchanan]

The new NRA mag has an article about a new Ruger Red Hawk with a 4.2" bbl. It was in .45ACP/.45 Colt, but They also have a .44 Mag version of that same gun.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/redhawk/models.html

On another note the new S&W 69 comes to mind or better yet the earlier version of the gun, the 696 which I just happen to have. The 69 is 5 shot .44 mag with a 4" bbl, but the 696 is a 5 shot .44 Special and with a 3" bbl and a more compact gun at 36 oz. It is a dream to shoot and I assure you that with 240 gr boolits, for what you want to do, it is more than up to the task. It is only slightly slower than a .44 Mag Midrange load with the same boolit. Also much easier to shoot.

The only difference in loading components would be the shorter cases, and you can shoot them in your magnums too.

Something to think about.

Randy

[Mike in Reedley]

I have a 329PD that I really like. I shoot 44 specials out of it and carry it in a Done Hume JIT belt slide. I put Pachmayr Compact grips on it and it shoots great.

[376Steyr]

I'd get a S&W 69 and load it with Buffalo Bore heavy .44 Specials. It will also probably fit into your current 686 holsters.

[Don Purcell]

4" M-29 carried in Sparks Summer Special.

[Lloyd Smale]

carried a blued 3 inch 29 quite a bit. Sold the gun to a buddy whos a Harley guy and it goes everywhere his bike goes. When I get the itch to carry a big bore revolver now my 696 3 inch 44 spec gets the nod.
So I've really fallen in love with the 44 mag, and casting as well. I have been shooting my SBH every weekend in my side yard, 50-100 rounds nornally. Now that 7.5" barrel is not the most concealable firearm I own. When I CC a wheelgun it's normally my 4" 686 smith and Wesson but I've been thinking about carrying a 44 mag when I can swing it.

So my question is if anyone has experience with a 3" 44 mag, what kind, what kind of loads, how did it do etc. Im kinda stuck between a Redhawk and a 629. This will be strictly a ccw gun.
I'm open to opinions and suggestions.

[Hickok]

I really like 9 gr/ Unigue and the Lyman 429421 in my S&W 629 4" barrel when I decide to use it for CCW. Very controllable and accurate.

[Virginia John]

I have a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special that I sometime carry. It is small and light weight and packs a pretty good wallop.

[Thumbcocker]

I have been doing some experimenting with an Accurate 190 grain full wadcutter in .44 specials. Nice big holes in stuff.

[Mica_Hiebert]

buddy had a 4 inch s&w 44 mag and in my young and dumb days I shot 1 round out of it without ear plugs. lost my hearing in my left ear instantly and I literally was def in my left ear for 3 days following. now my job requires annual hearing tests and I have almost no hearing in the 4k range. I have no doubt the 44 mag would be an instant man stopper but the shot that saves your life may mean permanent hearing loss! for what its worth I am only 31 and the incident in question was 9-10 years ago. I never wore ear plugs most of you younger shooting and my tinnitus is awful! (continuous ringing in ears) I can shoot 38, 9mm and 40 s&w with mild discomfort/ringing without ear plugs. just food for thought.

[str8wal]

I shot 1 round out of it without ear plugs. lost my hearing in my left ear instantly and I literally was def in my left ear for 3 days following.

Ya, I'd hate to touch one off indoors without plugs in. I think the shooter might even experience enough concussion to daze them. Might make a follow up shot on target a challenge indeed. I'll stick with 45 ACP or 38 special, thank you ;-)

[Paul105]

I have a 396 and a couple of M69s. The 396 is an absolute joy to carry, but, at 18 oz unloaded, it can be a bear recoil wise (depending on load of course).

Also had a 696. Never could get the 696 to shoot up to my expectations and for some reason I didn't shoot it well -- so I sold it.

A pair of S&W 329 PDs were my all day every day carry guns for almost a decade here in MT -- still carry one for backup when bow hunting elk.

Had a S&W 629 Mt Gun -- it has also gone down the road.

Have spent the last two years with the S&W M69 (4 1/4", 5 shot, L-Frame .44 Mag) and it has become my favorite. Been retired for the last 16 years and carry all day everyday when hunting, fishing, woods bumming, or walking the dogs. For me, it is the perfect carry gun. Mine are equipped with the S&W Hogue 500 grips only avail from the S&W store

( http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765464_-1_758003_757843_757837_ProductDisplayErrorView_N ).

For holster carry (IWB or OWB) a large/medium frame pistol/revolver, I don't find the 4" any more difficult to conceal than the 3", but find the 4" is easier to shoot and is capable of slightly better ballistics.

The L-Frame is narrower than either the Redhawk or the 629, which makes it a bit easier to conceal and more comfortable to carry (for me).

I realize that guns/grips/bbl lengths, cal, etc. are very personal things, so others opinions will vary. The L-Frame M69 .44 Mag just works for me, and the low bore to grip axis really handles recoil well (less perceived recoil to me vs the 629 Mt gun with same ammo).

FWIW,

Paul

[Outpost75]

I have read that the EDM-rifled barrels on current S&Ws, the 69 in particular, are not cast bullet friendly.

Does anyone have direct personal experience who can comment?

[dubber123]

I have read that the EDM-rifled barrels on current S&Ws, the 69 in particular, are not cast bullet friendly.

Does anyone have direct personal experience who can comment?

Pretty sure my 625 (Clinton lock in the side) is an EDM barrel. t has a lot of rounds down the barrel, probably 20,000 or so, and that may have smoothed it up a bit. I tried a few 50 yd. groups with the LEE 200 RF, (casts @ 215 Grs), and they were right at 3" or a tick less. I'm sure a better load could be found, but mine seems to shoot lead just fine. I have heard many reports to the contrary though. If I ever end up with another, I would firelap it if it gave me any indications of a problem.

[Outpost75]

This is helpful, I would like to hear more from others.

[Paul105]

Brian Pearce wrote an article on the M69 – he said the EDM rifling had a tendency to lead and it would probably benefit from fire lapping. A poster on another forum said that he had fire lapped his M69 and it solved the problem.

With that said, I have over 4,800 rounds thru one of my M69s – the majority have been commercial cast 240gr BB SWCs. Some were “Coated”, most were traditionally lubed (hard commercial variety). Most were shot w/HP38 at a chronoed 880 fps. I never shot more than 80 or 100 at one time. Yes, they tend to lead but nothing that wasn’t easily removed with a bronze brush wrapped with “chore boy” or brass wool. The “coated” bullets seem to lead less.

The other gun (approx. 2,600 rnds) is shot mostly with 265gr SWCGCs (the Thompson 429244) over 17.5gr of 2400, short seated (my notes show 1.572” OAL) and crimped over the front drive band. This load chronos 1,140 fps at 5 long paces and 70 deg from the 4 ¼” M69. It shows a bit of lead wash in the M69, but that’s about it. The short seating pretty much mimics .44 special OAL in a Magnum case. It also enhances neck tension and allows the load to function thru my M92 carbine. The load has proven accurate in most all guns I’ve tried it in.

I’ve have all the materials to fire lap the M69, but I’ve just been too lazy – I’ll eventually get to it.

..

I shot the following target at 25 yds from a rest to check POI with various loads/bullet weights. The rear sight was bottomed out using the same point of aim (center of middle diamond).—my original gun shoot high with mag ammo – since corrected. I shot two rounds of each to minimize recoil induced fatigue and eliminate target clutter. The 17.0gr 2400 load is mislabeled – It’s really the 17.5gr load mentioned above but using the Lyman Keith 429421.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n172/Paul105_photo/Hobby/79cf3682-14c8-463f-b020-3fb50c9d3ea6_zps20b8a2ae.jpg

I realize that 2 shot groups aren’t necessarily definitive but the target indicates a preference for cast bullets vs. jacketed (subsequently verified). The 17.5gr/429244 SWCGC will typically put 5 shots in an inch and a half at 25 yds from a rest (as will the 6.5gr HP38/240gr SWCBB). Also from a rest, the M69 will hold about 6” at 100 yds with open sights and my old eyes/ deteriorating shooting ability.

So, depending on what “not friendly to cast” means, it may or may not pertain to accuracy with a bullet/load the gun likes and a reasonably clean barrel.

FWIW

Paul

[johniv]

Not in line with the accuracy levels sought here but for what it is worth, my carry gun went back to S&W , and they decided to replace it with a new 642. The new gun shoots my reloads (H&G #50) fine, bearing in mind it is a 2" carry gun, but the rifling looks more like polygonal than the normal land and groove. Customer service at S&W wont use the word "polygonal" and claims the rifling profile has been "softened" whatever that means. Bear in mind this revolver shoots well enough for a short range defensive revolver, but I haven't compared it with my old 649 in a side by side shoot. I will do that and check back.

[rintinglen]

My personal M-69 has small cylinder throats and leads like crazy. I have polished the bore to reduce the "grabbiness" of the barrel walls and am trying to get the cylinder apart so I can send it to Doug Guy Next Week to open the throats to .4305-.431. None of Mine will admit a .430 bullet at this time. I have replaced the grips on mine with Pachmayr compacts.

[Catshooter]

Back in the late 80's & early 90's I carried both a blue and a stainless Smith three inch in .44 mag. They were heavier than I cared for. Shot well with Elmer's load. I chronoed the 250 grain Keith boolit at just over 1,250 fps so they did buck a bit. I couldn't find a holster so I took a Bianchi (leather of course) for a three inch 686, soaked it in alcohol and stuffed the 29 in it. Worked well.

They are sweet weapons. A little pricey now though!


Cat

[Hickory]

168682
I have one of these.
With loads around 1000 fps it is easy to shoot.

[Lloyd Smale]

had a 396 and 17 grains of 2400 and a 250 were more painful to shoot then any linebaugh load I ever shot out of my guns. It was a joy to carry like you said though. I could stick it in my jacket pocket when bow hunting and forget it was even there. I ended up dumping it when I found my 696. its stainless and heavier but it is just so much easier to shoot that I actually enjoy taking it out and rolling beer cans with it. I kind of chuckle at the guys with there 329s claiming factory level 44 mags get on them bad. Ive shot them and they aren't near as bad as a stoked 396!
I have a 396 and a couple of M69s. The 396 is an absolute joy to carry, but, at 18 oz unloaded, it can be a bear recoil wise (depending on load of course).

Also had a 696. Never could get the 696 to shoot up to my expectations and for some reason I didn't shoot it well -- so I sold it.

A pair of S&W 329 PDs were my all day every day carry guns for almost a decade here in MT -- still carry one for backup when bow hunting elk.

Had a S&W 629 Mt Gun -- it has also gone down the road.

Have spent the last two years with the S&W M69 (4 1/4", 5 shot, L-Frame .44 Mag) and it has become my favorite. Been retired for the last 16 years and carry all day everyday when hunting, fishing, woods bumming, or walking the dogs. For me, it is the perfect carry gun. Mine are equipped with the S&W Hogue 500 grips only avail from the S&W store

( http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765464_-1_758003_757843_757837_ProductDisplayErrorView_N ).

For holster carry (IWB or OWB) a large/medium frame pistol/revolver, I don't find the 4" any more difficult to conceal than the 3", but find the 4" is easier to shoot and is capable of slightly better ballistics.

The L-Frame is narrower than either the Redhawk or the 629, which makes it a bit easier to conceal and more comfortable to carry (for me).

I realize that guns/grips/bbl lengths, cal, etc. are very personal things, so others opinions will vary. The L-Frame M69 .44 Mag just works for me, and the low bore to grip axis really handles recoil well (less perceived recoil to me vs the 629 Mt gun with same ammo).

FWIW,

Paul

[StrawHat]

I bought a 29-3 Lew Horton revolver when they were offered, 44 Magnum with a 3" barrel. It shot well with the Keith load but carrying it was a different problem. The holsters I preferred carried the cylinder above my belt and the 3" barrel was a bit short so the grip tended to fall away from my body. An IWB or even a Pancake might have been a better choice of holster.

I prefer the 4" "N" frame for carry and shooting.

Kevin

[frank505]

My model 69 is my carry gun. It had replaced the big single actions as my mountain carry. Nineteen grains of WC820 and an H and G #503 runs 1195 and suits my needs perfectly. Like Paul 105 says, replace the grips with the X frame grips and no pain. I ground off the flare at the bottom, feels much better. I'm at a thousand rounds of six and a half grains of trail boss with the 503. Probably closer to a thousand of nine and a half of power pistol. The WC820 is nearing two thousand round count. These are marvelous revolvers and liked Paul 105,I may buy another one.

[Shuz]

My short bbl'd carry gun is still my 329PD, stuffed into a Bianchi top break, 5BHL holster. My favorite load is 7g of Trail Boss behind a 429421HP, or an MP clone of the H&G 503. This load is very comfortable to shoot in this light gun with the addition of the Smith factory X frame grips. Top strap shield erosion seems to have stopped since I began using Trail Boss.
Those who seem to have leading issues with cast in their .44's, otta try some Trail Boss.

[Lloyd Smale]

I wish I wasn't retired as id probably have to pick a 69 up. Probably the coolest 44 mag on the market today.
My model 69 is my carry gun. It had replaced the big single actions as my mountain carry. Nineteen grains of WC820 and an H and G #503 runs 1195 and suits my needs perfectly. Like Paul 105 says, replace the grips with the X frame grips and no pain. I ground off the flare at the bottom, feels much better. I'm at a thousand rounds of six and a half grains of trail boss with the 503. Probably closer to a thousand of nine and a half of power pistol. The WC820 is nearing two thousand round count. These are marvelous revolvers and liked Paul 105,I may buy another one.

[TybrneRyan]

I am waiting to pickup my new m69. Felt great at the shop and seemed to be pretty tight. DA pull was a bit gritty and predict it will smooth a bit once fired. This will most likely be my go to back woods 44spl gun, but nice to know I can carry full house 44mag when needed.

[tdoyka]

right now its a rossi snub nose in 38 sp. when i traded it my 44 mag was a 7.5" ruger super redhawk(its concealed, sort of :grin:). now it will be a 44 mag in ruger super blackhawk with a 4 5/8" barrel(when it gets here). i used to have a beratta m96 in 40s&w but it wasn't a wheel gun. the 96 shot great but i just couldn't get used to it. so i traded it off and i got the srh.

[Geraldo]

I carried a 4" M29 in a belt holster from Kramer. Then I tried a 3" RB 629 from Horton and didn't care for that. Maybe it was the RB grips I had on it, but it seemed a lot worse than the 4". It also had a shorter ejector rod. I wouldn't buy another but I'd buy a square but 4" any day.

[kir_kenix]

Another vote for the model 69. I recently acquired one and I am in love with it. It's light enough to carry, but has enough heft that I actually enjoy shooting it. I haven't had any leading problems from the EDM barrel, but several have reported it. I haven't casted or loaded for it specifically yet, but I've put over 1,000 handloads assembled for other .44's thru it with no problems.

I've fired a couple cylinders full of fairly hot 300 gr loads (upper end of .44 mag, well below "Ruger only" loads) and I was impressed at how controllable they were. 240 gr swc at .44 spcl velocities are downright pleasant. I think its about the perfect size for carry when knocking around outside (feeding calves, riding 4 wheelers, etc), but I've ccw'd it with no problems as well.

[Groo]

Groo here
If you can get a 3 in n frame GET IT!!!!!!!!!
I have 41,44,and 45 acp models and find them the best of both worlds.
Short enough to not hit your ribs when you sit down,long enough to get some FPS from your loads.
N frams are easier to hide then some might think as the barrel and grips are thin [ I like packmyre ] you just need to fit the cylinder
correctly.

[oger]

S&W Mountain Gun. The std 4in is more comfortable to shoot but also heavier.

[Moonie]

My middle son has a 2.5" 5 shot Taurus 44 magnum that has factory porting. It is a blast to shoot...