.22 Hornet vs. .222 Remington?

[blixen]

That's .22 HORNET!
I'm trying to make my mind up between two calibers I've always wanted to own. I'll likely go CZ.

i would be shooting exclusively cast in the rifle.

BTW, I know .223 makes more economical sense, but I've always craved these calibers. And, sadly, I can't afford both.

mainly I'm concerned about achieving good accuracy with cast boolits and have heard the Hornet can be frustrating.

[chrispy]

22 hornet is a very small case capacity, but hampered by a very thin and sometimes fragile neck thickness. Very small powder variations can lead to pressure spikes or velocity differences. Also, finding a small cast pill may be an issue. That said, I want to build a 22 hornet to shoot cast, for my daughter when she is old enough. Lastly, head spacing is off the rim, I found issues with US made brass in my Brno fox II, it was a euro snob and only liked premium euro brass, so I turned it into a rimless 221 fireball, and never regretted it.
The 222 has a few advantages, longer, thicker, case neck. More forgiving case capacity, and reasonable price as well. As it is designed for heavier pills, a suitable cast bullet should not be hard to find.

[richhodg66]

Never had a .222, but the Hornet is easy to get good results from cast with. I've loaded all mine down, wanted to replace a .22 LR, so never have gone beyond that much. Mine are old enough to be the 1 in 16 twist and they have no problem shooting that Lee Bator bullet very well.

Get some kind of neck size dies, I use the Lee collet type dies and haven't had any problems, no lost cases yet.

The .222 does have some advantages and should be a great choice too.

[RU shooter]

I'd go with the triple deuce , me and my dad both owned a few of them my older rem 700V was just an amazing shooting machine and his 340 is no slouch either . Nice long neck and brass is easy enough to get or even reform from the common 223 brass if needed . Plus it can do everything the hornet can do and much much more .

[dale2242]

Get 1 of each.
I love them both....dale

[kenyerian]

I love them both also. I have had them both but now I am down to two Hornets. I stayed with the Hornet because it is my favorite caliber barrel for my contender. I also have a Handi rifle in the hornet. If I was still groundhog hunting I would still have the 222 but there is not many places left here in SE Ohio to hunt them.I like the 225-37-FN 225107 made by Noe. Very economical to reload and plenty of pop for small game. Good for coyotes. Doesn't tear up the fur.

[fryboy]

I own both plus the 223/.556 ....the most fun ? Oddly for me the hornet lolz
Umm make it a Khornet ;) if not the 222 starts looking better but for ease of finding economical factory loads ( if the need ever arises ) the 223 sadly wins

[Hickok]

Just my opinion, but I think if a person could get a rifle in the .221 Fireball, it would be a perfect cast boolit rifle.

[376Steyr]

+1 on the .221 Fireball. If necessary you can make your own brass out of plentiful 5.56 empties. Something to think about when the next Panic strikes and the ammo makers stop making Hornet brass for the duration.

[.22-10-45]

I have both & use cast in each. The Hornet is a custom job with a 26" Shilen C.M. match grade oct. brl. on an original paneled action Sharps Borchardt. Chambering done by the Late Ed Shilen himself. Leupold 12X fixed. The .222Rem. is on another custom rifle, a Ruger No.1 with std. 26" sporter brl. This also has Leupold 12X fixed scope. When I first started shooting either, I tried every jacketed bullet including custom match grade to find out just how accurate they were. This was my benchmark for cast. Five years later & a couple of custom moulds, and tweaked loading tools, I finally equalled best jacketed accuracy with cast. The Hornet has shot some 3/8" groups at 100yds..but more usual is 1/2" to 3/4" The best jacketed accuracy with the Ruger was 7/16" & I have been able to duplicate this with cast.

[CWME]

Another vote for the .221 fireball. The .222 rem is fun too. I make both cases from .223 commercial brass. I never saw eye to eye with my hornet and sold it. It was me not the caliber.

[floydboy]

Can't speak for the Hornet or Fireball but I love my 222. I shoot a GC'd 225415 over 21 grains of 4064 which is a nice case full of powder. Usually get MOA. Haven't experimented with many powders or boolits yet buy plan to. Only real expense is the powder. Built on a Savage action with 26" McGowen barrel.

[MarkP]

Another vote for the 221 FB; I love Hornets as well I have both. I can match jacketed accuracy with either. I do not have a 222 but have a 17-222.

[blixen]

I appreciate the feedback, but you guys are killing me! I can't buy both, but I might be able to follow-up with the other in a year or two. The Fireball interests me too, and I think I saw that CZ did a limited run in .221 Fireball.

Unfortunately, I'm plagued by nostalgia. Mid-20th Century, when I was in my formative shooting years (5th/6th grade) I experienced a .25/20 (pump with tang sight), a .219 Zipper Marlin lever, .222 and a .22 Hornet among relatives who banged away at ground hogs and foxes in their fields in Pa. Over the years, I've passed up over-priced Sav. 342s in .222 and .225 Win. and a Sav. break-action in KHornet and never had the bullet to bite to buy on a CZ or other Euro-mauser.
Now, I'm going to sell off some stuff, scrimp and do it.

[blixen]

BTW, local gun shop guy tried to talk me into a Savage lightweight/walking varmiter in .22H. 24" barrel. I know Sav. makes good barrels, but I was put off by the plastic camo stock.
Anyone, have thoughts on this rifle?

[Cheshire Dave]

I have a CZ .222 and it's very accurate with jacketed and pretty good with cast. Haven't worked enough with cast to really make it shoot. Will shoot 1/2 inch with 50 gr, Vmax. I hope to get a Savage 219 in 22 hornet to play with cast.

[fryboy]

Brass/ammo for the hornet is hit and miss ...reforming it from other cases is a bit more intensive than the 222 ....of course this is looking ahead and with forethought so ... In the end it will be a question of which one makes you feel the warmest ;)

[Mk42gunner]

I've owned both the .22 Hornet and the .222 Remington. In factory form or with J-words, I believe the .222 is more accurate. I have not played with cast in the .222, but brass will always be available for it as long as you don't mind altering .223/5.56mm.

My .222's were a Rem 788 (never should have gotten rid of that rifle) and a Savage 340. The .22 Hornets were an H&R 158 and a Savage 219, A buddy also had a Ruger 77/22H.

The factory Hornet is quieter than a .222, but for cast loads I don't think that will matter.

I have not had both in an equivalent rifle, but I would bet the deuce wins.

All the CZ rifles I have been around have been good guns.

Robert

[Mitch]

the hornet is a picky round.think about it a small case so a small change is realy big.be it powder,bullet,sizeing,primers and anthing else that goes with loading it.i am shopping for a cz 222.I have never shot a 222 that didn't shoot decent to great most were great shooters.the bad part is none of the guy who have them will part with em.

[MT Chambers]

My tupperware stocked Tikka Varmint special in .222 was no hell with cast boolits, so I've found the best are the K-hornet and the .218 Mashburn Bee, but would like to try a Cooper in .221 Fireball.

[PB234]

This (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/559806051 ) is a decent value at the opening price. When they came in a bunch of months ago prices were from about $605 to $750+. The American is a very nice rifle and the 221 very attractive ballistics.

The CZ in .222 would be excellent too. I wanted a 527 American in 223 for too many years but decided the Fireball looked like fun and took it instead. What is the twist in the CZ 527 222? In the 223 it is 1 in 9 in the new ones and 1 in 12 in the older ones which still turn up on shelves. If I were buying a CZ 527 American in 223 and knew which twist rate I wanted I would be careful to get the rate I wanted. Maybe if the 222 is only in 1 in 12 and I wanted to shoot heavy bullets I would reconsider, but I have never looked into a 222.

Most likely you will be delighted if you get a CZ. It is a real wood and steel rifle that should last a few generations. The set trigger is nice too, but I never use it.

[quilbilly]

I have a Hornet carbine and a couple triple deuces and love them all. My Hornet gets fed nothing but cast from the Lee Bator mold and is MOA or less at 100 with an MV at about 1900. As a fur collector it is great since it doesn't do much pelt damage. I consider the Hornet good on coyotes to about 125 yards at that MV. One of my 222's is fed only hot jacketed loads for ranges on coyotes from 125 to 300 yards across clearcuts for minimal pelt damage. Another 222 is a T/C 10" barrel with a reduced load (less muzzle blast and flame) which is great out to 60 yards on bunnies and grouse. Both calibers can be the right tool for the right job. That ultra light Hornet carbine with the 4x scope is one of my two favorite "walking around" rifles. If you are going to use strictly CB's at CB velocities, there is not much difference.

[blixen]

What is the twist in the CZ 527 222? In the 223 it is 1 in 9 in the new ones and 1 in 12 in the older ones which still turn up on shelves. .

CZ .222 Remington 1 in 14 (the same as most manufacturers, including Remington)

CZ .22 hornet 1 in 16

I've tracked down a beat-up Rem. 788 in .222 Remington. I've owned a couple of the rimfire versions, which were sweet rifles. But don't know anything about the 788 in .222. (except that they go for outrageous prices).

[Mk42gunner]

I would almost bet that beat-up 788 in .222 will shoot better than you can, unless you are an accomplished benchrest shooter.

I have had a 788 in both .222 and .223. What the .223 would do at one hundred yards, the .222 would do at one hundred fifty yards.

The deuce came with a 24" barrel, the .223 with a 22". I believe the twist rates were 1:14 for the .222 and 1:12 for the .223.

788's are ugly, but they will shoot.

Put some good glass on top and go shoot some bughole groups.

Bottom line, if you can afford it you won't be sorry at the way it shoots. Looks may be a different matter.

Robert

[joesig]

... but would like to try a Cooper in .221 Fireball. You will LOVE it. It will shoot cast like others shoot jacketed. Jacketed is even better.

[303Guy]

I have an old Anschutz 22 hornet with a rust damaged bore and oversize chamber (I suspect that was an attempt to clean out the rust damaged chamber). Well, this rifle with R-P cases and a compressed charge of Lil'Gun under a 55gr bullet shoots fast and accurate with my loads. I don't size cases or neck and use a somewhat oddball loading technique. Case life is indefinite. I only tried it with cast once using not so good castings and got mediocre results. I'd like to try better castings to see how it does. Anyway, I love the hornet. But given the choice? Well, my hornet also came in a 222 but with a slightly longer action. I would go 222. Long neck, not too fast or slow a twist rate. Will a 14 twist 222 stabilize a 55gr bullet? I don't know but a 16 twist hornet does. I would think that with cast boolits the 14 twist would be just fine with heavies and velocities should be right up there.

[varminter66]

I vote for the 22 Hornet, first and foremost because I am unreasonably biased!! The 2nd reason, is because it is so damned frugal with powder, especially when compared to the performance. Case capacity with the Hornet lends itself nicely to using caste, or jacketed. You can load her down to easily shoot caste in the 1600 fps range, or jack her up to hit almost 3000 fps accurately with jacketed. Sure it's a little finicky... but still well worth the attention to detail to do so. If you can load the Hornet and make her shoot, you can load anything. Now, part of my bias is that I live in a more populated part of the country, where having a milder cartridge is an advantage. Keeping shots with the Hornet in the 50-150 yd range is a good thing around here. A 22 Mag rimfire fits the bill, but it cannot be reloaded. The 22 Hornet is the only cartridge I know of that can replicate the 22 Mag, and be reloaded. So, there ya have it... some logic, some bias, and some preference based upon the situation.

[Yellowhouse]

I got both but wouldn't give up either. Depends on what your maximum range would be as the 222 can reach a bit further.

[Hawks Feather]

I am a bit late to this post, but like others have both hornets and .222s. I have not fired either with cast bullets so I can't be of help there. The .222 was used in many early bench guns and I have found it to be very accurate. While the hornet is fairly accurate the .222 (for me) is much more accurate. So part of your decision might be the range that you are shooting. My .222s will hold groups at 200 yards that match the hornet's best group at 100. As has been mentioned the .222 will use more powder. While it wasn't part of your original question but was mentioned by others the .221 is a great middle. Mine shoots as good as the .222s, better than the hornet, and is a nice small round. If the .221 becomes a possibility it would be my first choice followed by the .222 and then the hornet.

[M-Tecs]

I am trying very hard to love the Hornet but not there yet. I have a CZ 527 and a couple of Contenders in the Hornet.

Part of the issue is the role I purchased the Hornet for. I shoot a lot of prairie dogs. For close and quiet I use the 17 HMR. For the majority the .223 gets the nod with bigger for long range. I purchased the Hornet hoping it was closer to the 17 HMR in noise. With lil'gun it is much closer to the 223. The more noise the longer and further it spooks the PD's.

Mine Hornets shoot OK but not as well as the 221 Fireball or 222 Rem. The Hornet cases are more fragile and more of an issue to get proper headspace for maximum case life. All three of mine have different chambers.

For brass availably the 222 gets the nod. If you have to you can easily form from 223.

For my use the 221 or 20 VarTag would have worked out better. I have a hard time selling guns but the Hornets would be the first to go.

[DLCTEX]

I have 22 Hornet, 222, and 223. They are each my favorite in turn.

[blixen]

A 22 Mag rimfire fits the bill, but it cannot be reloaded. The 22 Hornet is the only cartridge I know of that can replicate the 22 Mag, and be reloaded.
That's a big part of the reason that I'm looking at a Hornet. I shot a lot of .22 mag. and .17 HMR before the Great Rimfire Ammo Famine. Also, I had several .22 WMRs --Marlin, Savage and Mossberg-- and could never get great accuracy beyond 75 meters, no matter how much I fiddled. I worked up a mouse-sneeze load out of my Rem. 722 .300 Sav., few grains of Red Dot and 165gr Ranch Dog plain-base boolits. It was easily as accurate as my .22 WMG and, i would guess, cheaper to shoot. Not exactly flat shooting, though. <br><br>I figure a .22 hornet would use about a third the lead.
You guys aren't getting me off the fence--I might have to buy a .222 then a .22 Hornet later. Or vice versa.

[quilbilly]

That's a big part of the reason that I'm looking at a Hornet. I shot a lot of .22 mag. and .17 HMR before the Great Rimfire Ammo Famine. Also, I had several .22 WMRs --Marlin, Savage and Mossberg-- and could never get great accuracy beyond 75 meters, no matter how much I fiddled. I worked up a mouse-sneeze load out of my Rem. 722 .300 Sav., few grains of Red Dot and 165gr Ranch Dog plain-base boolits. It was easily as accurate as my .22 WMG and, i would guess, cheaper to shoot. Not exactly flat shooting, though. <br><br>I figure a .22 hornet would use about a third the lead.
You guys aren't getting me off the fence--I might have to buy a .222 then a .22 Hornet later. Or vice versa.
How did I know that was coming? Now you know why I have both and they are not redundant.

[barrabruce]

I have an old cz khornet in 1:16" twist. Shoots mostly around 3/4 moa on a good day 1 moa on others.
Not bad for a 58 yr old rifle.Jacket bullets only.
I learnt to reload with the khornet.

They have/can be made in light and petite stalking/walking rifles.n
just the thing for a bit of a stroll.

Most 222 - 223's are a lot more gun to lug around.

I used to hunt once upon a time and in more settled areas, farmers would allow me to shoot with a hornet, were as a 222 would be frowned upon or not allowed.
my 2 cents worth.

I'd like a nice 4 lb 25 or 27 hornet for a walk around cast bullet shooting rifle.

[atr]

I have both...and like shooting both but if I were buying only one I would go for the .222 with a 26" barrel.
The .222 shoots a wider (heavier) range of bullets farther and faster

[blixen]

I got a line on a first-generation Contender with a .222 Rem rifle barrel at what seems to be a good price. But Contenders are a whole new level of rifle mysteries for me. Very intimidating. And I'm not sure I like that action over a good ol' bolt action.

I don't have any idea how to judge condition, what to watch out for, do they shoot cast well, etc. Meanwhile, I'm following a couple rifles on auctions and a couple locally, while gathering resources.

I want to thank the folks who have offered guidance here. The worst that can happen is I'll end up with a .22 Hornet or a .222 Rem and learn a lot about that caliber before moving on to something else..

[bullseye67]

You are asking our "Advice" about spending your "Money" HeHe.... I have a sweet little Ruger 22 Hornet that I bought to shoot instead of 22 Magnum. If you have a purpose like that it is hard to beat. Mine is a really good "gopher gun" to about 75 yards with cast boolits. I traded a friend a bunch of cast 44 boolits for cast 22 boolits. He got a 1000 I got 1000's of them.....we traded lb4lb..LoL. I tumble lube, size GC, then tumble lube them with thinned LLA and shoot them over LiL Gun. Start with the Hornet you might not need a 222. Of course want is a different story....

[fryboy]

My lil 22Khornet fastly became my fav ,the thing weighs almost nothing even with a bull barrel (18") 5 shots @ 50-75 yards is usually smaller than a dime ( with rigorous culling of the castings ) the worst problem with the contenders are the barrels seem to multiply...
As for what to look for ... function,slop in the action when a empty case is chambered,the triggers are adjustable to sweetness, oh and make sure that the action opens easy

[MarkP]

I just reminded myself, when I shot prairies dogs often my favorite long range rifle was my 22 Hornet. While I had larger capacity wildcats in 6mm and 257 that could launch 87 and 100 gr bullets at 22-250 velocities, I found myself shooting my little 22 Hornet once they went down in their holes and the only dogs out were at 400+ yd. At 9 grs of powder the bbl does not heat up too badly as compared.

[NZ44]

Id go hornet for cast bullets,cant imagine loading cast to 3000fps. My .222 Sako Vixen is my go to deer rifle here in NZ,they are just so dang easy to shoot well,and with a solidly constructed bullet,great for medium game.

[M-Tecs]

I found myself shooting my little 22 Hornet once they went down in their holes and the only dogs out were at 400+ yd. At 9 grs of powder the bbl does not heat up too badly as compared.

What load were you using?

[MarkP]

Either a 40 gr V-Max or 33 gr V-max (made for Remington in the 90's) under 9 or 10 gr of H-110. Quite frequently the dogs would run over and sniff the bullet strike. Then you had them if you remembered your POA for that shot. The 33's would drift 5 to 6 feet due to the wind.

[fatelvis]

My Rem 700 in .222 Rem, is my favorite rifle of all.

[Silverboolit]

Have you looked at the 22 TCM? Cases are shortened .223, or factory brass. I have this in a 1911 A2 and is a real pleasure to shoot. Armscor has a rifle out now. I don't know much about the rifle, but it could be the modern day Hornet.

[blixen]

I'm trying to make my mind up between two calibers I've always wanted to own. I'll likely go CZ.

i would be shooting exclusively cast in the rifle.
Update: After a tough search I found two possiblities. A used .22 Hornet Rem. 799 (Serbian-made Zastava) and a well-used CZ 527 in .222 Rem.

I bought the triple-deuce, mainly because it seemed to be the better rifle. I read some critical things about the 799 and the one I found didn't have a safety lever, apparently it was removed when the PO did a trigger job on it. The CZ, has some dents and and scratches in the stock and metal. I won't be able to take possession for a week or so. The difference in price was about $50 more for the CZ.

I may add a .22 Hornet down the road, but I didn't think I could go wrong with a CZ .222.

Thanks for all the info.

[Mk42gunner]

I have a Zastava made Charles Daly in 7.62x39, and the only two things I dislike about the little gun are that it came with a miniature version of a fifties rollover comb/ wide beavertail stock (looks very out of place on a tiny rifle) this was fixed on the Remington version, the other is the trigger/ safety. Hard to adjust the trigger to a decent pull while still having a working safety.

I guess that is a long winded way of saying that for $50 more, I would go with the CZ too. I also think the .222 will be more accurate for you.

Robert

[richhodg66]

You guys have gotten me wanting to get a .222 now. Kind of actively looking for a 340 in it now. I'm a big fan of the Hornet with cast, kinda wondering if the .222 would siplace it on my list of favorites.

[blixen]

I have a Zastava made Charles Daly in 7.62x39, and the only two things I dislike about the little gun are that it came with a miniature version of a fifties rollover comb/ wide beavertail stock (looks very out of place on a tiny rifle) this was fixed on the Remington version, the other is the trigger/ safety. Hard to adjust the trigger to a decent pull while still having a working safety.

The one i looked at had a deep dark-blued metal finish and a thick glossy finish on the stock. I read about the Rem. 799 trigger/safety and that it doesn't have controlled-round feed like the CZ (To be honest, i'm not entirely sure how that would effect my shooting.) I was figuring the best fix for the missing safety was to just buy a Timney trigger for $110 (I can get a safety lever for $17--but I suspect the PO's modification issues ran deeper) and be done with it. I asked for a price break for it not having a safety and the dealer was kind of a jerk, so it was easy to pass on it. (I didn't bother to tell him that selling a gun that doesn't have a functioning safety is bad mojo, btw.)

Still, it was about the price of some people ask for a Sav. 340 (speaking of a crude trigger) or a NEF hornet, so i'm tempted to go back for it some day if I'm in that neck of the woods and it's still there...

[EDG]

I have a CZ Hornet and it shoots really well but for range use you will need a single shot adapter.

For use with Jay things the Hornet case is not very strong and Hornet brass has been hard to get for most of the Obama years.

All in all the .222 is much better in terms of brass supply and durability and cost of the brass. I have owned a 700 Rem in 222 for about 45 years and it is most accurate hunting weight rifle I have ever owned. I used a Lyman load of Unique and got results about a like a .22 WMR. The 222 would be nice in a compact rifle like the CZ but the CZ hornet extractor will not jump the rim so you either use a magazine or a single shot adapter.

[RPRNY]

Hornet for a single shot, Triple Deuce for a repeater.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

[Don Fischer]

Never had a .222, but the Hornet is easy to get good results from cast with. I've loaded all mine down, wanted to replace a .22 LR, so never have gone beyond that much. Mine are old enough to be the 1 in 16 twist and they have no problem shooting that Lee Bator bullet very well.

Get some kind of neck size dies, I use the Lee collet type dies and haven't had any problems, no lost cases yet.

The .222 does have some advantages and should be a great choice too.

years ago a friend had a couple 22 Hornet's. He only shot cast in them and had a real problem with splitting case neck's. He finally loaded them down to where they quit splitting. Thinking about it, I'm thinking what was happening was head spacing in the rim, the case was being over worked pretty bad. When he backed off the powder I suspect that then he didn't get enough pressure to expand the case into the chamber, less case stretch. That could be a problem with rimed case's. I think if I was to get a Hornet, I would immediately have it reamed to 22 K Hornet or 218 Bee. That way the die can be adjusted to the shoulder and take away a lot of stretch that is hard to avoid with the standard Hornet. Just a thought as I've though about a Hornet quite a bit.

[richhodg66]

Neck sizing will most likely solve a multitude of ills in the Hornet. I like those Lee collet neck sizers now.

The reaming to .22 K Hornet seems easy enough. I've always had an itch for a .218 Bee, but brass is nearly impossible to get now. Kind of a shame, because it's really a better cartridge than the Hornet.

[Don Fischer]

Neck sizing will most likely solve a multitude of ills in the Hornet. I like those Lee collet neck sizers now.

The reaming to .22 K Hornet seems easy enough. I've always had an itch for a .218 Bee, but brass is nearly impossible to get now. Kind of a shame, because it's really a better cartridge than the Hornet.

For what it's worth as I've never loaded for one myself. I'm not so sure neck sizing would. Seem's the problem is the very shallow shoulder on the hornet case. That's a reason I've been also wondering about the K-Hornet, it has a sharper shoulder. some body have an answer to that?

[gnoahhh]

I'm mystified by all this talk of issues with Hornet cases. I haven't been without a Hornet or two for the last 40 years- only one a K-Hornet (that one was built on an M2 Springfield in which I couldn't keep firing pins from breaking so away it went, but I didn't see the added benefit in the K chamber anyway). I can't imagine the countless thousands of handloads I put through them. I never had issues with split necks- in fact I can't remember ever having had one. Lucky? Maybe.

I too wouldn't mind another .218 Bee, but for the brass situation- but I don't consider it a better platform for cast bullet shooting than the Hornet. My Lovell wildcat rifle fills that niche anyway.

I've also been thinking of another .222, not because it is better for my purposes than a beloved .22 Hornet (cast bullets primarily), but rather for the availability of cheap brass in the form of gov't surplus .223's.

I read C.S.Landis' ".22 Varmint Rifles" when I was a kid in the late 60's, and have re-read it countless times since then. I ascribe my fascination with .22 centerfires to that one book, which lead me to shooting all manner of them. From Hornets to the Swift- I could tell you stories. What do I shoot now? .22 Hornet and .22 Maximum Lovell (and .223 in the AR, of course)*. I have long gotten past the need for an ear-splitting 4000fps .22. (But I sorta-kinda wouldn't mind another .219 Donaldson Wasp, on a HiWall receiver with Unertl scope...)

* Oops, forgot the several Savage .22HiPowers I have. But they don't count, as I size my bullets to .23 caliber- ha ha!

[mart]

I really like the small 22 centerfires. I'm on my fifth 222, this one a Franz Jaeger drilling in 222 Rimmed. I also have a left handed mini Mauser in 6mmx222 and like that rifle a lot. The 222 is in my opinion the very best of the 22 centerfires. It offers ample velocity for most applications, is generally easy on fur if one is careful with bullet selection, handles cast bullets well, has a small appetite for powder and is easy to make shoot well. That being said, one of these days a Savage 219 in 22 Hornet, the money and I are all going to be in the same place at the same time. I can see that being a fun little rifle.

I have one more left handed mini Mauser action in the white. I haven't decided what to build on it but it will be a 222 or 221. I lean more toward the 221 right now because I've never had one and with the 6mmx222 it would be easy to mix up ammo if I had a 222.

You will enjoy that 222. Keep us posted on how it shoots.

[Uncle Grinch]

You are going to LOVE the 222.......period.

you made a good choice!

[richhodg66]

I'm mystified by all this talk of issues with Hornet cases. I haven't been without a Hornet or two for the last 40 years- only one a K-Hornet (that one was built on an M2 Springfield in which I couldn't keep firing pins from breaking so away it went, but I didn't see the added benefit in the K chamber anyway). I can't imagine the countless thousands of handloads I put through them. I never had issues with split necks- in fact I can't remember ever having had one. Lucky? Maybe.

I too wouldn't mind another .218 Bee, but for the brass situation- but I don't consider it a better platform for cast bullet shooting than the Hornet. My Lovell wildcat rifle fills that niche anyway.

I've also been thinking of another .222, not because it is better for my purposes than a beloved .22 Hornet (cast bullets primarily), but rather for the availability of cheap brass in the form of gov't surplus .223's.

I read C.S.Landis' ".22 Varmint Rifles" when I was a kid in the late 60's, and have re-read it countless times since then. I ascribe my fascination with .22 centerfires to that one book, which lead me to shooting all manner of them. From Hornets to the Swift- I could tell you stories. What do I shoot now? .22 Hornet and .22 Maximum Lovell (and .223 in the AR, of course)*. I have long gotten past the need for an ear-splitting 4000fps .22. (But I sorta-kinda wouldn't mind another .219 Donaldson Wasp, on a HiWall receiver with Unertl scope...)

* Oops, forgot the several Savage .22HiPowers I have. But they don't count, as I size my bullets to .23 caliber- ha ha!

How hard is it to make .222 brass from GI 5.56 brass? Seems like the thicker brass would have the added benefit for cast of reducing powder capacity.

[gnoahhh]

Not hard, Rich. Just run it into the die, incrementally, wiping it off and re-lubing SPARINGLY as you go (to avoid dented/crushed shoulders). I never bothered annealing military brass but did with commercial brass. As a precaution I would probably anneal everything if I were to do it again. You definitely want to adjust your loads downward a tad and work back up.

[CWME]

The only thing I would add about forming the 222 or .221 is the Redding trim dies work great for the initial shoulder setback. I had fewer issues when using the trim dies. I also anneal after forming them.

[Drm50]

I have a 722 Rem 222, that was left to me by an uncle. Has a K10 scope on it and is deadly accurate. I shoot 55gr Hornady Sx / Bcl-2 powder, not the most Hi-vel load but deadly out to
300-350yds on groundhog. Never have shot cast in it. 22 Hornet is a different story. When I was
a kid I had a Stevens 441/2 barreled to 22H. It seemed like it would shoot any bullet you feed it.
I have been on the hunt for a good 22h ever since. I have had several 43 Wins, none were good
enough shooters to keep. Last new one I bought was 77/22h Ruger, it was a letdown also. I hate
to admitt it , cause I don't like them, the 340 series Savage are good Hornets, with cast bullets.
The handy rifles are junk, but if you luck into a 219 Savage SS you will have a good shooter.
The older model Savage 23s are also good cast shooters. The worst 22H I have owned was a
M6 Springfield, absolute junk, will not shoot anything well. I went through 3 of them, all junk.
I have not owned a CZ,but have herd good things about them in Hornet. This is based on factory
loaded ammo. But for pure usefulness I would go with 222.

[richhodg66]

I can vouch for bot the 219 and the 340 as being good shooters in the Hornet. My 219 actually has a pitted bore, but still shoots cast well. The 340 (Stevens 322, actually) is a very accurate rifle with the cast loads I've shot so far, but I prefer hunting with the 219.

[richhodg66]

I now have a .222 on the way, another 340 (I like those little rifles!). This is a good thread. I've never loaded cast in any other .22 Centerfires, might try the .223 but I only have two, one has the new fast twist, the other might work, but that case sure has a short neck.

Thus far, I have been focused on replacing .22 rimfires with cast in the Hornet, so have only really tested things at 25 yards or so with good success, very deadly on fox squirrels. This .222 will probably be for longer ranges. I picked up a hollow pointed Ideal 225415 recently, appears to be factory hollow pointed. Kinda thinking this one, cast hard and pushed as fast as I can might make for good prairie dog loads when/if I ever make a trip out to the Cimmaron Grasslands.

[CWME]

I have a 225415 that hollow Point molds did up for me years ago now. Explosive on game, all that needs to be said about that. Your in for a treat.

[richhodg66]

Enlighten me please. Do you cast those hard and drive them fast for an SX type of varmint bullet and slower speeds?

I use the Lee Bator in my Stevens 322 in .22 Hornet. Accurate, bu I wanted to approximate .22 rimfire ballistics and cast them real soft, almost pure (high reject rate with that alloy) and loaded them with 5.5 grains of 2400. This expands rapidly on squirrels, in fact, too rapidly. If you don't hit them right, you lose a lot of meat.

I guess on non-edible varmints it doesn't matter. I might try some of each, real soft and water quenched linotype and see how they act. Looking forward to receiving this rifle.

[Mk42gunner]

I had a 340 in .222. It shot pretty well with j-words, I wasn't casting for rifles yet so never tried any boolits in it. It did not shoot as good as the 788 that I had years ago, but it did okay.

When I got it the trigger was atrocious, but I was able to work on it enough to get up to acceptable.

Robert

[CWME]

I think the load was 11.1 gr of 2400 but I will have to look back in my log books. It's been a 5-6 years since I have used it. Moved on to NOE molds. Anyway, I know it was pushing them along pretty good. Cast of Linotype I about turned a squirrel inside out and chipmunks turned to hamburger. I never recovered a boolit but suspect that they exploded.

[daschnoz]

Between the 2, I would go with the 222 Rem. You can always down-load it to 22 Hornet performance.

That said, I would REALLY suggest a 223 (same down-load applies), plus ammo availability, yada yada yada.

[richhodg66]

Download to Hornet performance? I don't even load to Hornet up to Hornet performance.

Still your point is well taken. I just wonder if it will do as well as the Hornet for the light rimfire duplication loadings with the bigger case and slightly faster twist.

[rhouser]

EDG, where can you get a single shot adapter for the 22 hornet in a CZ 527? I would really like to get one.

All, my 2 cents: My 527 CZ American in 22 hornet is the most accurate out of the box rifle I ever owned. For me, Lil Gun takes out any "finicky" issues in the loading and feeding of the hornet. I have evolved into using the Remington 6 1/2 primer or a small pistol primer if I can't get the 6 1/2s.

.222 Remington set the standard for accuracy for a long time. It is a fine cartridge, but, I do love my CZ hornet.

rch

[rintinglen]

The most accurate rifle I have ever owned was a Remington 722 with a Hart Barrel in .222. It would do 10 shot groups that were smaller than most of the 3 shot groups that grace the gun mags today.
That was one of the goodies that went bye-bye when my second child was born and we had no insurance. I have never owned a 22 Hornet.

[2Tonkas]

BTW, local gun shop guy tried to talk me into a Savage lightweight/walking varmiter in .22H. 24" barrel. I know Sav. makes good barrels, but I was put off by the plastic camo stock.
Anyone, have thoughts on this rifle?
blixen, I have the M25 in .17 Hornet. I've not had a chance to shoot it past 100 yards, but it is dead-on at 100.

[Gary in Illinois]

EDG, where can you get a single shot adapter for the 22 hornet in a CZ 527? I would really like to get one.

rch

I'm not EDG but you can buy very nice single shot adapters for the CZ527 from James Calhoon at: http://jamescalhoon.com. Jim's work is top notch.

Good shooting!

Gary

[barrabruce]

My k-Hornet brass has lasted me for nearly ever.
I get the odd one to throw out every now and again.
I don't shoot it much any more but spent along time with it early on.
The sharp shoulder basically stops the brass flow so it appears.
You get 2 grains more powder in it. 1 grain extra gets you the same as the std hornet.
I don't know how may times I have loaded my cases...but the primer pocket gives out usually before the neck splits.
I fire formed and trimmed necks square and only once after that.
I'm still using the brass from 30 years ago but its dwindled down.
I have only partially neck sized my brass dipped in graphite which I suppose is old fashioned.
I have never annealed the brass.
I think my dies were rusty that I got for it and after cleaning up they don't really size much as the sizer button just rubs on the way through.

Being thin brass one learns to hold and feel the bullet as its being seated and weighing each charge does make a difference.

This is a gentleman's caliber.

The 222-223 ilk are more for the unrefined unwashed lot who feel they need to
bash out 400 cases / hr in some blue automated reloading monstrosity.

[Mauser48]

I can't wait to get a Remington 722 in 222. You guys are enablers!

[CASTER OF LEAD]

I have a Remington 788 in .222 ,and love it. I shoot only jwords through it now ,but am looking at getting the Lee Bator mold in the near future to try in it. My last shot with it was with a 55gr Sierra sp on a fox squirrel @75yards. Perfect headshot. Don't know who was more shocked ,the squirrel or me. Lol -CASTER

[gnoahhh]

Bottom line: get one of each.

[WILCO]

Just my opinion, but I think if a person could get a rifle in the .221 Fireball, it would be a perfect cast boolit rifle.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2014/5/14/the-221-remington-fireball-fits/

[WILCO]

The .222 Remington Storyby Layne Simpson - Wednesday, July 27, 2016

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/7/27/the-222-remington-story/

[blixen]

Re: American Rifleman article. That record 1-hole group is intimidating when you consider I'm about to make my first serious attempt with .222 remington cast (Lee Bator) this weekend! I'm setting the bar at 1" at 50 yards.

[RPRNY]

Thanks for the link to the Simpson piece.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk

[Drm50]

Ha-ha, a KHornet is a gentlemans gun? Reminds me of a story, when I was just home from service, my buddies dad to me to buy a Win 12-3" 12g off a guy he knew. On way home we
stopped at local joint for a cold one. I was telling some friends about my new purchase, when
a local guy rolled a 20g shell out on the bar. That is a gentlemans gun he said, with out hesitation
my buddies dad told him, If you were a gentleman , you wouldn't have said that. Guy shut up.
I got an old Rem 722/222 that shells are loaded one at a time, even though it's true nobody
has ever accused me of being a gentleman.

[richhodg66]

A lot of discussion about the .222 going on lately, on other forums too. I wonder of that American Rifleman article will generate a resurgence in popularity?

Just git my first .222 shooting, just light, .22 LR duplicate loads, but pretty please with the results so far.

[blixen]

I did the first real shakedown with my new-to-me CZ 527 .222 Remington. Older Bushnell Banner 4-12x40 Scope.
All targets 50 yards.
Lee Bators, wheel weights and a bit of tin, water-dropped, sized .225, copper gas checks, weighing in at about 56 grains. Tumble lubed in alox/floor wax. All cases are reformed .223.

I have a few '70s cans of Red Dot, so that's what I started with. The first target is with the best quality boolits I was able to cast, so far. Sorted to 0.1 grain. At 2.5 grains of red dot, it felt like a .22 magnum. I can live with this accuracy! I wonder how it would do without gas checks. Have no idea the velocity, subsonic?
173478
The second target has two groups on it, both 5.0 grains of Red Dot. The lower is a 3/4" group that had some "pretty good" cast boolits. All with in .1 grain. But the upper group was loaded with culled boolits--not quite rejects but imperfect. They were within 0.5 grains. A dismal 3" group. Clearly, bullet quality is important. Don't have a chrony, but guesstimating from my ancient Lyman manual says the velocity should be just under 1,600.

173479
Finally, before i left the range, I shot a group of cheap Remington 50 grain J-words for a baseline. 16 grains of 3031 gave me 1/2" at 50 yards.

[richhodg66]

That 2.5 grains is squirrel head accurate at a range that is unrealistically far for squirrels to me. I'd stick with that, unless you're wanting to hunt something bigger.

Maybe 2.5 is the sweet spot, but the sweet spot is obviously somewhere less than five grains. You might try increasing the charge .1 or .2 grains at a time until you find where it is. Or you could just do like I did with the Hornet, feel good about good results quickly and easily and go squirrel hunting.

I haven't tried the Bators in my .222 yet, I will next time.

[blixen]

Think I'll try some slight variations on 2.5 grains to see if I can get 1/2 inch groups.

I'm also am going to work with the 5.5 grain load. I liked the velocity.

[fatelvis]

At 2.5 grains of red dot, it felt like a .22 magnum. I can live with this accuracy! I wonder how it would do without gas checks. Have no idea the velocity, subsonic?
According to Quickload, it should be at about 1228fps in a 24" bbl.

The second target has two groups on it, both 5.0 grains of Red Dot. The lower is a 3/4" group that had some "pretty good" cast boolits. All with in .1 grain. But the upper group was loaded with culled boolits--not quite rejects but imperfect. They were within 0.5 grains. A dismal 3" group. Clearly, bullet quality is important. Don't have a chrony, but guesstimating from my ancient Lyman manual says the velocity should be just under 1,600.
Again, Quickload estimates 1768fps in a 24" bbl.

[richhodg66]

I'm betting you could shoot that 2.5 grain load without the gas checks.

[blixen]

Thanks Fatelvis, Really, 1,200fps? A .22 wmr is roughly 2,000fps with a 40grain slug. And that 2.5 Red Dot load is just above the speed of sound (1,126 ft/s). Food for thought. Thanks, again.


According to Quickload, it should be at about 1228fps in a 24" bbl.

Maybe I'll try 2 grains and drop below the sound barrier and see if the accuracy follows



Again, Quickload estimates 1768fps in a 24" bbl.

And I am going to try it without gas checks.
Btw. Forgot to post this group.

[richhodg66]

I tried the Bator and the 225438 without checks using 1.5 grains of Bullseye in the Hornet and it worked fine at 25 yards for what I wanted it to do and was very quiet.

Since then, I got a plain base mold so don't do that anymore, but I think at those velocities it'll work fine.

[blixen]

What is your plain-base mold?

[white eagle]

can't speak for the bug but the 222 Remington ain't no slouch

[blixen]

I'm betting you could shoot that 2.5 grain load without the gas checks.

Shot a couple hours today. Did it with the Bators sans gas checks and 2.0 and 2.5 grains of Red Dot. Got 3/4" groups at 50 yards with both loads--not much difference. But about the same accuracy as with gas checks.

Also walked up loads at 0.1 grain from 5.3 to 5.6 grains. The CZ gave me 3/4" groups at 5.6--so i need to walk it up a bit more and see what happens.

Bottom line: I've got a good mouse load and potentially a good moderate velocity load that i need to wring out at 100 yards.

[richhodg66]

The Bators I shoot in the Hornet are very soft. I was trying for the 1% antimony .22 LR bullets have. High reject rate, but the ones that made it shoot well with 5.5 grains of 2400 in the Hornet, gotta be much faster than your 2.5 of Red Dot.

If you got 3/4" at 50 yards, go squirrel hunting now, that's a head shot every time.

[richhodg66]

What is your plain-base mold?


NOE 45 grain WFN that was a group buy a while back. Thread about it here;

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?260184-NOE-225-45Gr-WFN