Loading & Shooting the Burnside Carbine

[The Goose]

I posted this on a couple of other forums, but thought that you guys might enjoy this. I recently acquired a 3rd Model Burnside carbine .54 and of course I want to make the old dog bark again.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/DSC03032_zpsrcqtmduz.jpg (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/sgoselin/media/DSC03032_zpsrcqtmduz.jpg.html)
The Burnside carbine was invented by Ambrose Burnside a Union general and also the first president of the NRA. Also where the term "side burns" came from as an homage to his mutton chops. The carbine was the third most prolific breech loader during the Civil War after the Sharps and Spencer rifles. I believe there were 5 models. There were about 1500 of the 3rd model manufactured. Breech loaders and self contained cartridges were in their infancy and there was a plethora of designs from linen or paper cartridges to metallic rimfires. I think the Burnside is quite unique and fascinating. Below is an original cartridge.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/.54B_zps5t7qnjlm.jpg (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/sgoselin/media/.54B_zps5t7qnjlm.jpg.html)
With a little research I was able to locate a source for brass and nylon cases and also bullets. The brass are very heavy and well made and will probably last for my shooting lifetime. The nylon are probably less durable, but still reloadable even if less classic in appearance. However, the brass go for $4.50 each and the nylon are .75.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/DSC03038_zpsqsfyrniq.jpg (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/sgoselin/media/DSC03038_zpsqsfyrniq.jpg.html)
You can see the ignition hole in the base. There was no primer, a percussion cap was used (much like the Sharps). The traditional load is 45 grains of black powder, I used Goex 2F. I loaded 45 grains in the brass and 40 grains in the nylon. The nylon did not seem to have as much room. The bullet is from a Rapine mold and is identical to the original. I think it weighs 360 grains. I lubed it with SPG, a modern black powder lube. I did not use a drop tube for the powder but I did tap down the case several times to facilitate settling. After the powder I put in a .50 vegetable fiber wad that was .060 thick. This fit in the mouth of the case and actually completely covered the powder as the cone shape cased narrowed. There was no room for a grease cookie. The bullet fit fairly tightly, but once started I was able to push it in by hand. No seating die required.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/DSC03043_zpsyuxhz7lw.jpg (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/sgoselin/media/DSC03043_zpsyuxhz7lw.jpg.html)
Lastly I tried loading it in the breech block and closing the action. Both rounds were a bit snug, but I was able to completely close the breech block. I may sand down the base of the rest of the cases to fit just a little better. The case maker states that they purposely leave enough material on the base so that it can be taken down as needed. I guess there is some variance in the chamber size of different rifles.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l299/sgoselin/DSC03042_zpsyqxacv9k.jpg (http://s99.photobucket.com/user/sgoselin/media/DSC03042_zpsyqxacv9k.jpg.html)
So when the breech block is closed it swings up and seats the bullet into the barrel. There is no chamber in the barrel as the brass is completely seated in the breech block. Extraction is done by hand. Probably seems awkward today, but I guess at the time this was cutting edge. Supposedly these carbines were pretty accurate, although I suspect that the 300 and 500 yard notches on the sight were a bit optimistic.

I hit the range and gave it a try. I had 10 rounds of the brass and 20 of the Nylon. The rifle functioned flawlessly. No gas leakage, easy extraction and reloading. To my surprise it shot pretty much point of aim at 50 yards. I usually expect these old military rifles to shoot high at 50 yards. I shot 5 shot groups and then swabbed the bore. Groups ranged from 4" - 6". There was no noticeable difference between the brass and nylon. Not a tack driver, but adequate for it's purpose. Maybe I will get better with a little practice.

I have since acquired a mold from Accurate Molds. I hate buying boolits. LOL!

[elk hunter]

Great carbine! I always wanted a Burnside but never found one for sale here on the West coast. Enjoy!

[hardy]

Good job Sir,Well done,I am envious..........Mike

[Earlwb]

That is a nice rifle. I like it. It is great to see someone shooting one of them again too. Nice.

[avogunner]

I love these old cavalry carbines and well done! I've been lusting over a Smiths, or Burnside, for a long time.....now I think it's time to get serious.

[StrawHat]

The Burnside Carbine is a fun little carbine to shoot. I have had access to one for nearly half a century before inheriting it. The brass cases are all I use as I got them many years prior to the nylon ones being available. I am interested in your results with them and how long they last. Granted, I have 25 of the brass ones and they are likely to outlast me and get passed along to the next owner of the carbine.

I use the same hollow based boolit as you, but I mix my own lube, beeswax and oil. I am not sure of the charge weight as I just pour and place the bullet. The old caps I have, four wing musket caps, work fine. I also get good accuracy using a round ball.

Historically, while the Spencer was purchased in more numbers, many of them were not delivered until after the ACW and therefor not used. So, the Burnside was the second most procured carbine of the ACW. Unfortunately, it did not lend itself to self contained priming so it died quickly with the change to rim and central fired cartridges.

I believe you have a 5th Model Carbine. The screw in the side of the frame to help the breechblock pivot is the giveaway point. That is the trait of the 5th Model.

Soldiers found an easy way to remove the empties from the breechblock, they used another case and pushed it into the empty. The case jammed into the mouth of the empty and made it easy to extract. There have been long rows of these found on CW battlefields.

And, the Burnside is easily capable of dropping a white tailed deer.

Kevin

[The Goose]

Strawhat, Thank you for the well informed response. I just received and am reading the Burnside book by Edward Hull. Should probably have read it first. I see what you mean about the screw in the side of the frame. I bought the Burnside as a 3rd Model, but frankly I paid a very good price for it and am just as happy with the 5th Model. I am a shooter more than a collector and the condition of this carbine is quite good. I am really enjoying it.

[sharps4590]

How interesting! While I have never had a desire to own a Burnside I thoroughly enjoy reading and learning from what you've posted. Thank you!

[StrawHat]

Years ago, I purchased a "collar" to use in the Burnside in place of the case. It allowed you to pour powder into the chamber and seat a ball or boolit on top. The collar sealed the gap between the block and the barrel. A solution, but not a good one. The collar allowed the chamber to get filthy and that is not an easy one to clean.

The Burnside has a two part breech. The rear was made to slide and that action freed the cartridge from the chamber. It was a well thought out solution to the problems experienced with the Hall carbine. The Burnside was either well liked or despised by the troops who used it, depending on which diaries and reports you read. The reports may also reflect some political sentiment about the General.

Until the time of replica carbines, the Burnside was well thought of and frequently seen on the line at N-SSA events. It was an accurate carbine and quick to reload.

Here is a photo of mine with an 1860 replica.

168517

I am looking forward to hearing more about the nylon cases. Do they exhibit any burning after firing? Easy to eject? Easy to clean? Anything you can supply would be helpful. There are quite a few Burnside fellows that still use them and are looking for new things to try.

Kevin

[missionary5155]

Good morning
Thank you for the fine photos and all the good info here. Recently purchased a Burnside myself and am looking to fire it this summer on our return. Purchased 10 brass and I think 20 nylon cartridges to start with. It will be interesting to find out how long the nylon type will hold together. Probably should plan on a side by side test using 2f and 3f Goex . Thank you !
Mike in Peru

[ian45662]

Mine shoots great with a 562 rounball and 38 grains of goex oldE 2F. I use a grease cookie though. Without that accuracy falls off after 5 rounds or so

[TXGunNut]

Awesome posts, fascinating rifle. Thanks for the insight and keystrokes! Nicely done!

[The Goose]

Mine shoots great with a 562 rounball and 38 grains of goex oldE 2F. I use a grease cookie though. Without that accuracy falls off after 5 rounds or so

I have started dipping the bullet on a loaded round into melted SPG. Works great.

[ian45662]

I have started dipping the bullet on a loaded round into melted SPG. Works great.

I do that also. Line cookie and dip the bullet.

[toot]

I use RB'S in mine. .552 or .556, either or, with out any problem. I just use 30GRS. of 3 FG, and thumb press them in. I also have a bullet mold. but I don't like them, they have to be tapped into the case with a mallet. has any one ever tried SMITH CARBINE bullet's in them?

[Eggman]

If you're a hard core Sharps hater this may be the cure. I hated the Burnside more.

[missionary5155]

Howdy Eggman ! Welcome to this place.

All we shoot are RB's. I for one hope I never get hit with a 40-1 RB chugging along at any speed.
We found 3F Goex shot better in our carbine but Goex is all we tried.

[elk hunter]

I use RB'S in mine. .552 or .556, either or, with out any problem. I just use 30GRS. of 3 FG, and thumb press them in. I also have a bullet mold. but I don't like them, they have to be tapped into the case with a mallet. has any one ever tried SMITH CARBINE bullet's in them?

I purchased a Burnside a while back and it came with a round ball mould. The round ball shoot just fine but, I wish I had a bullet mould for it. Raphine is out of business and I just can't seem to get around to making a mould for it. If anyone knows where I might find a mould for the proper bullet please let me know.

[BP Dave]

You could look at:
https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=56-390A or
https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=56-390B
He has some others that could work as well.

I have used the Rapine mold and had decent shooting results, but I find them difficult to load--the flat base catches on the very thin rim at the mouth of the case, whether brass or nylon. I am considering ordering a custom mold, and if I do I will probably get one with a beveled base.