Der Gebirgsjager
05-17-2016, 01:06 AM
What really fine old military rifles, and they carry a lot of history with them. Designed in England, produced in the U.S. They say that more of the 1917s went to France in WW I than did the 1903 Springfield.
When I was a teenager my best friend had a book that his uncle, Lt. Col. Gerhauser, had prepared for the Army that contained many photos of troops in the Nationalist Chinese Army. It was a report on their equipment, training, and an assessment of their effectiveness in combat. This was a fascinating period in history as the various foreign powers that had toe holds in China had trained Chinese troops for their own purposes, and a bit later had done so at the request of the Chinese government. Among them there were battalions equipped with German helmets and Mauser rifles, and one equipped with American doughboy helmets and 1917 rifles. The same photo, or a very similar one can be found in the Time-Life WW II Series of books.
After WW I the Army decided to standardize once again on the 1903, and the 1917 went out of common use here at home. It was given in vast numbers to foreign counties looking for armaments, and after having been who knows where many of them found their way back home through such importers as Century Arms International. Such is the case with the three rifles shown below. All are marked with the C.A.I. St. Alb. VT. stamp on the right side of the barrels behind the front sights.
The top rifle is a P-14 and the middle and lower rifles are 1917s. All are of Eddystone manufacture. The English like to paint their rifles, and the 1917s are Parkerized. The exterior metal finish on these three rifles approaches new, but the stocks were badly battered. The bores were clean and shiny, but show some wear. All in all, they probably were carried a great deal and saw a lot of duty somewhere, but were given a decent amount of maintenance. As you can see in the photos there are some ordnance repairs to the stocks, not that common on U.S. owned rifles, and one might conclude that whoever owned them while they were overseas did not have replacement stocks readily available. I have two more, not conveniently available for photos at this time, both P-14s, an Eddystone scoped as is the 1917 shown below and a Winchester. The same general description about stock condition and repairs would apply to them as well. I might add that none of the rifles have any foreign proof marks or ownership marks visible at all, so which shores they actually visited shall probably remain a mystery. So, here for your viewing pleasure:
168320168321168322168323168324
A fact that might interest some of the newer collectors is that these rifles used the same stripper clips as did the 1903 rifles, which holds 5 rounds, but these rifles will actually hold 6 in the magazine. Because the clips came standard with 5 rounds some shooters are unaware that if loaded singly these rifles will hold one more.
The scope mount was added to the 1917 in the mid 1980s, and is a B-Square "no-gunsmithing" mount. One simply removes (and saves!) the issue ladder sight and the mount fits between the protective ears and utilizes two pre-existing screw holes. It is very solid and very accurate.
Well, there's three of mine and an interesting story to go with them. What's standing behind the door in your den? Or in the gun safe?
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Additional information: Here are some interesting facts concerning these rifles, as taken from "United States martial and Collectors Arms", Military Arms Research Service, 1982.
P-14 rifles:
Winchester receivers marked WRA, quantity produced 235500.
Remington receivers marked RE, quantity produced 403000.
Eddystone receivers marked ERA, quantity produced 450000.
Total produced: 1088500. Yes, that would be One Million Eight Hundred Eight Thousand Five Hundred.
Of interest: A cartridge feeding problem was solved by recessing the barrel at the chamber. The rifles were then stamped MK I and a replacement bolt with a star on the handle was installed. Production was started in November 1914 and was stopped in December 1916. To finish pending contracts production was resumed from February 1917 and finally ended in June 1917.
1917 Rifles:
Production numbers:
Winchester 545500
Remington 646000
Eddystone 1328300
Total production: 2519800 Two Million Five Hundred Nineteen Thousand Eight Hundred.
Of interest: After WWI these rifles were returned to storage with a few sold to members of the NRA Lend lease sales to England in 1940 was 615000 and 1941 was 520000. Rifles sent to Nationalist China during WW II were rechambered to 7.92x57mm Mauser.
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My comments:
I've also read that if a P-14 has no initials in front of the serial no. it is a Remington.
Wow! So England received 1135000 of the 1917s as Lend Lease. I knew they received some that were used by their Home Guard, but over a million is enough to equip and entire army. I know they never all came home again, so I suppose they're forming a reef for marine life somewhere in the Atlantic.
I did not know that the rifles sent to China were converted to 8 mm Mauser. It makes sense that they would do so as it was their official cartridge. So obviously the C.A.I. imports did not come from that source.
When I was a teenager my best friend had a book that his uncle, Lt. Col. Gerhauser, had prepared for the Army that contained many photos of troops in the Nationalist Chinese Army. It was a report on their equipment, training, and an assessment of their effectiveness in combat. This was a fascinating period in history as the various foreign powers that had toe holds in China had trained Chinese troops for their own purposes, and a bit later had done so at the request of the Chinese government. Among them there were battalions equipped with German helmets and Mauser rifles, and one equipped with American doughboy helmets and 1917 rifles. The same photo, or a very similar one can be found in the Time-Life WW II Series of books.
After WW I the Army decided to standardize once again on the 1903, and the 1917 went out of common use here at home. It was given in vast numbers to foreign counties looking for armaments, and after having been who knows where many of them found their way back home through such importers as Century Arms International. Such is the case with the three rifles shown below. All are marked with the C.A.I. St. Alb. VT. stamp on the right side of the barrels behind the front sights.
The top rifle is a P-14 and the middle and lower rifles are 1917s. All are of Eddystone manufacture. The English like to paint their rifles, and the 1917s are Parkerized. The exterior metal finish on these three rifles approaches new, but the stocks were badly battered. The bores were clean and shiny, but show some wear. All in all, they probably were carried a great deal and saw a lot of duty somewhere, but were given a decent amount of maintenance. As you can see in the photos there are some ordnance repairs to the stocks, not that common on U.S. owned rifles, and one might conclude that whoever owned them while they were overseas did not have replacement stocks readily available. I have two more, not conveniently available for photos at this time, both P-14s, an Eddystone scoped as is the 1917 shown below and a Winchester. The same general description about stock condition and repairs would apply to them as well. I might add that none of the rifles have any foreign proof marks or ownership marks visible at all, so which shores they actually visited shall probably remain a mystery. So, here for your viewing pleasure:
168320168321168322168323168324
A fact that might interest some of the newer collectors is that these rifles used the same stripper clips as did the 1903 rifles, which holds 5 rounds, but these rifles will actually hold 6 in the magazine. Because the clips came standard with 5 rounds some shooters are unaware that if loaded singly these rifles will hold one more.
The scope mount was added to the 1917 in the mid 1980s, and is a B-Square "no-gunsmithing" mount. One simply removes (and saves!) the issue ladder sight and the mount fits between the protective ears and utilizes two pre-existing screw holes. It is very solid and very accurate.
Well, there's three of mine and an interesting story to go with them. What's standing behind the door in your den? Or in the gun safe?
*****************************
Additional information: Here are some interesting facts concerning these rifles, as taken from "United States martial and Collectors Arms", Military Arms Research Service, 1982.
P-14 rifles:
Winchester receivers marked WRA, quantity produced 235500.
Remington receivers marked RE, quantity produced 403000.
Eddystone receivers marked ERA, quantity produced 450000.
Total produced: 1088500. Yes, that would be One Million Eight Hundred Eight Thousand Five Hundred.
Of interest: A cartridge feeding problem was solved by recessing the barrel at the chamber. The rifles were then stamped MK I and a replacement bolt with a star on the handle was installed. Production was started in November 1914 and was stopped in December 1916. To finish pending contracts production was resumed from February 1917 and finally ended in June 1917.
1917 Rifles:
Production numbers:
Winchester 545500
Remington 646000
Eddystone 1328300
Total production: 2519800 Two Million Five Hundred Nineteen Thousand Eight Hundred.
Of interest: After WWI these rifles were returned to storage with a few sold to members of the NRA Lend lease sales to England in 1940 was 615000 and 1941 was 520000. Rifles sent to Nationalist China during WW II were rechambered to 7.92x57mm Mauser.
***************************************
My comments:
I've also read that if a P-14 has no initials in front of the serial no. it is a Remington.
Wow! So England received 1135000 of the 1917s as Lend Lease. I knew they received some that were used by their Home Guard, but over a million is enough to equip and entire army. I know they never all came home again, so I suppose they're forming a reef for marine life somewhere in the Atlantic.
I did not know that the rifles sent to China were converted to 8 mm Mauser. It makes sense that they would do so as it was their official cartridge. So obviously the C.A.I. imports did not come from that source.