45-70 Hart barrel rolling block project

[Bigbore66]

Hi all its been a long time that I have not posted to any chat rooms or forums. I have been drowned in my work. I have decided to take some time for my self an make a new rolling block. Starting with a 1901 action. I have ordered a 45-70 barrel from Hart rifle barrel. Yes Hart does make 45-70 barrels now. If you want one just call them up and place an order. Tell them steve sent you. The reason for my post is what should I get for twist and length. Before you all think I am stupid, I do have some idea of what I am doing. What I am after is other gunsmith thoughts. 2 heads or many heads are way better than one. At this time the twist is 1-14. That may change over time. I am using the 1901 so I can load hot and heavy. The Hart barrel because it is SS in case I want to shoot black. I will be nickel plating the action to match the ss barrel. Ant input would be helpful

thank you all in advance

Steve

[country gent]

Have seen heard of 1-18 and 1-16 twist 45-70s never a 1-14. How heavy long of a bullet are you planing on? My 1-18s do well with 550 grn bullets around 1.4" long. The length weight of bullet you want to shoot has a direct bearing on needed twist rate. Talk to Hart and let them help you decide have an idea of bullet weight length and velocity range your going to be shooting. There are some tables on the internet that tell what weight bullets caliber and velocity a twist rate will stabilize also. I think Mc Gowens site has one and possibly pac nor and douglas.

[Bigbore66]

Thank you, 1-14 is what I have seen on 458 win mag. I have been told by some that that twist will spin all boolits. from 350gr to 550 gr I am also building a 450 marlin for a friend and he wants a 1-14 twist for sure. Does your 1-18 do well with lite boolits also?

[Blackwater]

I think just about all the BPCR's have a 1:18" twist, and they stabilize bullets up to 550 gr. And FWIW, if you shoot black, forget all the hoopla about cleaning the gun and having it rust. I think that's from the use of Pyrodex, which WILL rust a gun BADLY if not cleaned quickly and VERY thoroughly after shooting it. I use Murphy's Oil Soap - the type that's already diluted and comes with the spray top. The concentrate comes in bottles with a cap. 1 or 2 patches wet with the dilute MOS (I use a lexan rod with no head so I can push clean through and out the muzzle end), followed by a couple of dry ones, and then one with a good oil, and you're good to go. It's the brass cases that require the most cleanup. Put them in a jug of water after firing, and clean them with hot soapy water when you get home, and do it immediately. If you don't, black will corrode the cases. THAT is the only thing about shooting black that can be considered onerous. Even the smell of sulphur CAN become pleasant if one shoots well enough!

Oh! And make sure you put at least a 28" bbl. on it if you may shoot black. Sure makes for a gun with a nice "hang" out front for shooting offhand. And my BPCR weighs 11 lbs., and with those big, heavy bullets, the wt. is a great plus over long shot strings, like 40 or more rounds at a session. You've got one neat gun going there!

[Bigbore66]

I Think I can talk the barrel maker in to a 1-18 and a 1-14 for the 450 marlin I am building. I have 4 barrels on order. 2 45-70s and 2 450 marlins. I am a part time gunsmith for a small shop. We get nice muzzle loaders in all the time that have not been cleaned. The last one I got I paid $50 for. It was a T/C Hawkins in awesome shape on the outside. The bore was wiped out. Almost no rifling left. I get them like that all the time. Not sure if its black or pyrodex, just sure it was not cleaned. I like the MOS idea, Grandma used that stuff for years to clean the big old house in VT. I can still smell the MOS and pinsoil as well as the linseed oil in Grandpas workshop like it was yesterday. ( and that was 42 yrs ago) I always used Dawn and water to clean my smokers. I will have to try that MOS. Thank you. I will try to post pics as the project proceeds. I have a 6 month wait on the barrels.

[John Taylor]

I get people asking about twist rates quite often.The original trapdoor in 45-70 has a 1 in 22" twist and held the record at 800 yards for many years with a 500 grain bullet. The Winchester 45-90 has a 1 in 30" twist but it was using a very light bullet for what Winchester called an express rifle ( the 50-110 has a 1 in 56" twist). Twist rate is directly related to bullet weight and velocity.