Rumour- New Powders have 10 year shelf life?

[clearwater]

Read it on the Nosler reloading forum. The latest greatest powders have limited shelf life.

Sounds like the new "green" temp in-sensitive powders?

Anybody heard about this?

[John Boy]

Have a link to the thread? Did an Internet search = Nothing about 10yrs

[clearwater]

"They're doing that for 2 reasons...
1- Most of the powders we consumers get are formulas that failed government contract testing....Uncle Sam wants temp stable powders with a long shelf life.

Many of these new powders only have a 10 year shelf life.

2- Most consumers want temp stable powders.

_________________
http://forum.nosler.com/viewtopic.php?t=32724&p=352413

[9w1911]

"Most of the powders we consumers get are formulas that failed government contract testing....Uncle Sam wants temp stable powders with a long shelf life." - This is not true.

There is nothing I can think of in my limited knowledge of smokeless powder that you can make them decompose at a certain date.

[Hamish]

this particular rumor has gone around for decades. how would they make it self destructive/useless?

[labradigger1]

Nonsense. Imagine the litigation when the squibs would occur.

[dtknowles]

If you get a squib because you have reloads that are more than 10 years old, who you going to call?

One change with some of the new powders is the chemicals and methods for neutralizing the acid used in the nitrating process. In an effort to reduce hazardous waste (avoid cost) they changed the process. Will that affect shelf life, we will not know until the powders processed that way sit on the shelf for a while.

Tim

[Outpost75]

I'm still using Bullseye I bought at Camp Perry in 1967.

The military and police require shelf-stable powder and ammo.

There is no good reason for the powder companies to do anything else.

Gunshop rumor BS.

[dragon813gt]

Remember during the Clinton era that primers were going to change so they had a short shelf life? That obviously didn't happen.

Let's say this rumor is true. The powder companies owe it to their customers to tell them this information. It's not like it's just going to stop working at the ten year mark. There will be a degradation as it ages. This sounds dangerous to me.

[bangerjim]

One word........lawyers. They have to cover there keisters.

Same thing with medicines and canned foods. All have a "best by" date. Total BS. As long as things are stored in an environment "where you would live comfortably", all will be OK.

[JSnover]

I'm not buying the factory seconds rumor without reliable sources. The implication is that they've tried hundreds of formulas and only came up with a handful that were good enough. Really? Is it that tough to figure it out after more than a century of research and development? Powders that were made before many of us were born are still burning correctly.

[Three44s]

Sounds like "Mission Impossible" to me ............. "in 20 seconds, this tape will self destruct" .......

Three 44s

[jonp]

One word........lawyers. They have to cover there keisters.

Same thing with medicines and canned foods. All have a "best by" date. Total BS. As long as things are stored in an environment "where you would live comfortably", all will be OK.

Early 70's we were still eating surplus C-Rations left over from the mid 60's at hunting camp.

[Hickory]

Until I see proof, it is a rumor.

[toallmy]

Someone will have to keep a can of new powder for 10-20 years to find out , l am planning on burning my powder before that , and the primers as well . But I would not put it past our currant government to try it .

[bangerjim]

Man has always strived to preserve stuff.

Early on, he discoved how to make cheese out of milk to allow it to last much longer.

Grain easily turned into alcohol for longevity. (And fun!)

Salt curing of meats preserved them for long periods of time.

Then canning in glass containers allowed people to enjoy summer foods year round.

Then came the innovation of "tin" cans and the world shrank! Foods from all over the world were now avaialble to most at reaonable prices and had long shelf lives.

Now we vacuum seal, irradiate, and freeze-dry tons of food stuffs.

But I really cannot imagine any of us keeping gun powder around for 10+ years to see if it still works!

We just shoot too much!!!!!!:lovebooli

[243winxb]

WHAT IS THE SHELF LIFE OF AMMO AND STORAGE?Store reloading components and ammunition in a cool, dry place, protected from direct exposure to sunlight. If stored properly there is a 10-year shelf life on loaded ammunition. https://www.federalpremium.com/company/faq.aspx

[243winxb]

The Manufacture of Smokeless Powders and their
Forensic Analysis: A Brief Review- http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/McCord_gunpowder/ Check the MSDS at http://www.hodgdon.com/msds.html to see what is in your powder. They are not all the same.Use it or loose it. My can- http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/th_IMR4895_20090928_1.jpg (http://s338.photobucket.com/user/joe1944usa/media/IMR4895_20090928_1.jpg.html) Click photo for more.

[Shiloh]

"Most of the powders we consumers get are formulas that failed government contract testing....Uncle Sam wants temp stable powders with a long shelf life." - This is not true.

There is nothing I can think of in my limited knowledge of smokeless powder that you can make them decompose at a certain date.

Thank You!!
Heat and temperature variations will deteriorate powder.

SHiloh

[MT Gianni]

If you read the data there is a proposal to do something with medium arms that includes a powder that might break down after x # of years. IIRC, small arms in the military are hand held and medium are vehicle based, nothing to do with sporting powders.

[OS OK]

First time I ever read this statement…( FROM LINK ABOVE...https://www.federalpremium.com/company/faq.aspx )

WHAT IS THE SHELF LIFE OF AMMO AND STORAGE?Store reloading components and ammunition in a cool, dry place, protected from direct exposure to sunlight. If stored properly there is a 10-year shelf life on loaded ammunition.

[dragon813gt]

Edited because I got the terms mixed up and looked like a moron :laugh:

[Hardcast416taylor]

I need to say that some Red Dot powder that was about 10 years old did break down on me. Of course it may have been the primer being struck that made a flame that consumed the powder to drive the cast .45 boolet down the barrel and cause a light grey soot on the muzzle. In other words it performed as well as it had every one of the 10 years that I`ve had that keg of 10 lbs.! What was that termonology used by Col. Potter of that M.A.S.H. TV show, "Horse Hockey" about powder giving up the ghost!Robert

[dtknowles]

Shelf life is a minimum number not a maximum. If something has a shelf life of 10 years then it is supposed to be good for at least that long and if it is good for 100 more that is just lagniappe. I would not bet my life on 50 year old ammo but I would bet $100 it would go bang.

Tim

[Outpost75]

I am still using .45 and .30-'06 USGI ammo loaded in the 1940s.

[cbashooter]

Remember --------if you haven't heard a good rumor by noon start one.'---------------------------
Just like Outpost I'm shooting some powder that I got from my Dad's friend that are back from the sixties and early seventies and stored correctly they are just fine.

I even popped a cap on some Frank Marshalls old favorite "perfume powder" a while back my friend had hoarded it went bang just fine.

[farmerjim]

Mine that I bought in the 60's and stored in the heat and cold and high humidity is still going bang the same intensity it did back then.

[Geezer in NH]

I am still shooting 1938 Turk 8mm, 78 years old, in the last month shot 1000 plus 2 duds. I did pull bullets and reduce powder by 5 grains as it kicked like mad.

Have shot up a couple of pallets at least with a 1919A4. Several times it blew the top cover into a U but was not because of deterioration. :bigsmyl2:

[JSnover]

Federal can assign whatever arbitrary shelf life they want but I've bought and shot loaded ammo from the mid 40s through the mid 70s and all of it functioned.
It's possible (far be it for me to cast aspersions!) that they'd like us to burn it all off and buy more every ten years or less.

[Blackwater]

Fellas, I understand all the above posts, and agree 100%. But what concerns me is the newer forumulations, that the EPA has made a practical necessity. We know for sure the current administration in DC would like to disarm us all, or make all our ammo unusable. This is too ripe a situation for there to be some real possibility of truth in it to simply discount. The libs have learned that if they can't get us directly, they MIGHT get us through the back door. Degrading powder just might be one way to do that.

So .... I remain concerned, no matter what previous issues of powder have done over time. That does NOT, ipso facto, mean that curretly available powders won't self-limit somehow. I think that's clear. Past experience does NOT guarantee continued performance, especially when the formulation has changed, which nobody denies. Will the new powders last over time? Nobody here really knows, and we CANNOT know until time has passed, likely as not. Not all chemicals and solvents, etc. used in powder manufacture are terribly stable, and there really MIGHT be some reason for concern. With big conglomerates taking over all big businesses, the situation is ripe for something like that to be pulled on us. We cannot afford to rely on either rumors nor on past experience. But we'd be wise, likely as not, to take these things at least under advisement.

I've long been one to try every new powder that comes out just to see what it's like and what it can do. Not so much, any more, and any of the new powders I get WILL be shot up first, hopefully with good accuracy, before I dip into my old stock, that I think I have reason to believe might be more stable than some of the new stuff coming out.

We are in a chess game with the "current administration," and assuming they're foolish is underestimating our genuine enemy - something I think we can all ill afford to do. That's my take on it, anyway.

[MT Gianni]

Blackwater, With most powders made offshore, EPA and DC Admins. have no impact on manufacture.

[AZ-JIM]

168681

Not new powder obviously, I would bet its at least as old as I am (almost 40) and I shot some today actually, first time and in a brand new rifle. Shot just fine. Store in a cool dry place......


az-jim

[220]

Shelf life is a minimum number not a maximum. If something has a shelf life of 10 years then it is supposed to be good for at least that long and if it is good for 100 more that is just lagniappe. I would not bet my life on 50 year old ammo but I would bet $100 it would go bang.

Tim

My understanding as well, Ive only been reloading for about 30 years and that has been what I've been reading since I got into reloading.
Under good storage conditions powder should last 10 years minimum, as has been proven under good conditions it can be much longer but equally under less than ideal conditions it may be less than 10 years.
I burnt a tin earlier this year because it appeared to be going off, 19 years old from the manufacture date on the tin. Would it have still pushed a projectile out the barrel, I'm sure it would but for the cost of a 500g tin I didn't think it was worth the risk.

Shot a match last year with ammo manufactured in 1913, it still went bang but there was a noticeable delay between squeezing the trigger and the bullet exiting. Had one misfire that in the end cost me the win but still for a 100+ year old rifle and ammo it shot as accurately as I could hold from a standing position.

[Whiterabbit]

Thank You!!
Heat and temperature variations will deteriorate powder.

SHiloh

Boy howdy, sure does that fast, too.

[OS OK]

Fellas, I understand all the above posts, and agree 100%. But what concerns me is the newer forumulations, that the EPA has made a practical necessity. We know for sure the current administration in DC would like to disarm us all, or make all our ammo unusable. This is too ripe a situation for there to be some real possibility of truth in it to simply discount. The libs have learned that if they can't get us directly, they MIGHT get us through the back door. Degrading powder just might be one way to do that.

So .... I remain concerned, no matter what previous issues of powder have done over time. That does NOT, ipso facto, mean that curretly available powders won't self-limit somehow. I think that's clear. Past experience does NOT guarantee continued performance, especially when the formulation has changed, which nobody denies. Will the new powders last over time? Nobody here really knows, and we CANNOT know until time has passed, likely as not. Not all chemicals and solvents, etc. used in powder manufacture are terribly stable, and there really MIGHT be some reason for concern. With big conglomerates taking over all big businesses, the situation is ripe for something like that to be pulled on us. We cannot afford to rely on either rumors nor on past experience. But we'd be wise, likely as not, to take these things at least under advisement.

I've long been one to try every new powder that comes out just to see what it's like and what it can do. Not so much, any more, and any of the new powders I get WILL be shot up first, hopefully with good accuracy, before I dip into my old stock, that I think I have reason to believe might be more stable than some of the new stuff coming out.

We are in a chess game with the "current administration," and assuming they're foolish is underestimating our genuine enemy - something I think we can all ill afford to do. That's my take on it, anyway.

Yep…sorta like those two-piece brass cases that would leave the front half in your breech should they decide to connect them a little less carefully…but…your preaching to the wrong crowd here as most of them don't have a clue…not too many have done their homework on the NWO and their plans for all of us!

charlie

[Blackwater]

Blackwater, With most powders made offshore, EPA and DC Admins. have no impact on manufacture.

You're right of course, but politics and the "global economy" have controls not related to JUST our requirements. There are many ways to achieve this, and most of them involve power BEHIND the scenes. We are not, today, fully informed about anything that goes on. We just get the tip of the iceberg, and often, even that is so slanted that it may well constitute DIDinformation rather than edification of any kind, really. Don't mean to get into politics here, but it's just inherent in the question re powders today .... and pretty much everything else, for that matter.

So you're right, technically, but there are more than one way to skin this cat, and with huge mega-corps taking over almost all big business, including those that control our powder manufacture, it wouldn't be impossible by ANY means to "fix" our powders so they wouldn't last long. And like the atom bomb, we've never possessed a single "weapon" and not used it. So your point is very well taken, but I'll still stand on what I wrote. Just didn't want to open up the political element here. But thanks for your point.

[Daywalkerneo]

well my father served 26 years navy master at arms and he freaks out when he might of thought which he didnt see ammo from ww2 and i received a nice lecture on ammo storage and a limited shelf life in military regulations. everything has a shelf life of some sort. its all about that storage and not letting the nitro sweat maybe

[runfiverun]

if it's new powder how do they know the shelf life is 10 years?
think about that.
it can't just sit on your shelf for 10 years then poof just deteriorate.
it can't deteriorate over the 10 year span either, the law suits would put them out of business.
plus the data they would have to generate for the last 5 years of the powders shelf life would take 20 years to put together.

[Shiloh]

Finished 2230S data powder this year as well. FOund half an 8 ponder I didn't know I had. Bought in the early 90's as good when I finished it as it was when I bought it.

SHiloh

[wiljen]

Simple answer is it isnt possible to make a powder with a 10 year life. period. The reason I say this is that the ten years after production would have to be controlled exactly in order to control the decay rate. Since they intend to sell powder to multiple customers and cannot manage the storage conditions it is impossible to create a powder that would exhibit as consistent decay rate across all storage conditions. Worse yet, the military may have to store ammo in the worst possible conditions as wars don't usually happen at 72 Degrees and 56% humidity. I think they'd be a bit upset when they found out their ammo that was supposed to be good another 8 years had decayed in a month due to overheating.