J-word 150 gr. RNFP 2300 f/s loads for .308 Winchester.

[Kosh75287]

A very good friend has a Steyr Scout (which he loves), and wants to hunt the smaller Texas whitetail with it. Factory .308 Winchester seems to zip through the smaller ones without much (any?) expansion, resulting in run-offs & lots of tracking.

MY proposed solution is to replace the heavier-(j word) 150 gr. Spitzers with RNFPs intended for use in .30-30, at 2200 - 2400 f/s. Next to no .308 Win. reloading data seems to exist for this project. I'd like the opinions of more seasoned reloaders as to the advisability of using reloading data for the dimensionally-similar .307 Winchester to obtain desired velocities.

We've determined that his Scout doesn't work and play well with cast boolits, and I think he'd be courting trouble to use them at velocities much above 2000 f/s, anyway. Almost all shots are within 200 yards, but longer shots do occasionally arise, so sub-2000 f/s rounds are not helpful. I do understand that many rifles shoot cast boolits well, out to 300 yards. THIS ONE doesn't seem to. Thoughts?

[runfiverun]

the 307 is the rimmed version of the 308 they even use the same die to reload.
so using modified 307 data is just using modified 308 data.

anyway back to your question.
yes you can reduce the 308's velocity's down to the level of a 30-30.
you can reduce the 30-06 down there too.
to get to 2400 fps which is as low as I would go if you have longer shots just reduce 4895 down.
with a 150 I'd drop it down to about 34-35 grains.

[koehlerrk]

Hodgdon 4895 is your friend. Can be reduced a lot! Data on their website.

http://Www.hodgdon.com

[Outpost75]

The 75% rule also works in with RL15, 4064 or Varget.

[Kosh75287]

Thanks, fellas!

I know that reduced loads for the .30-06 have been around almost as long the cartridge itself, but I tend to feel more comfortable with working up reduced loads in less capacious rounds. I THOUGHT about advising him to break out his father-in-law's venerable .300 Savage M99, until I shopped for loaded rounds (d'OH!).

It's a shame for me to admit that I don't have any H4895 at the moment, but I plan to buy some anyway. I DID find a load using WW760/H414, so I may try to use up what I've inherited, along the way.

I also have IMR-4064, IMR-4227, IMR-4895, Varget & Alliant 2400, so if someone's tried this or something similar with any of these powders, I would welcome their input.

[HangFireW8]

Doesn't play well with cast? Slug that barrel. Steyr (and other Euros) often have their own ideas about 30 cal dimensions.

[runfiverun]

the 4064 and 4895 from imr will reduce just fine too.
I prefer the IMR types anyway.
I don't think you can get up to 2400 with 2400, 2100 yes 2400 no.
varget should reduce fine, but might do better with a filler.

[M-Tecs]

wants to hunt the smaller Texas whitetail with it. Factory .308 Winchester seems to zip through the smaller ones without much (any?) expansion, resulting in run-offs & lots of tracking.


Just select a bullet designed to open up on lighter game. This one will. https://www.midwayusa.com/product/796037/nosler-bt-ammunition-308-winchester-125-grain-ballistic-tip-box-of-20

[Kosh75287]

I think I stumbled on the right load through blind-@$$ed luck. 38.6/AA-2460/150 gr. RNFP grouped 9 rounds in 1 5/8" at 100 yards. Not match-grade accuracy, perhaps, but certainly sub-minute-of-whitetail. Based on drop, we estimate velocity at 2500 f/s. I think this is too fast, but the range we were at wouldn't let us fire into a block of wet-pack, to assess expansion, so it's all guesswork until we can do that, or he can shoot a white tail with it.

[jaysouth]

I reload .308 hunting loads for a 12 year old shooting a cut down Remington 760 pump. My load is a 150 gr. 30-30 jacketed bullet over 28 grs of H4895. After testing the load, I buffered the bullet with a piece of dacron batting which improved accuracy.

The load is a solid 100 yd. whitetail load. He killed a small buck and a large doe last season with this combo.

[TCLouis]

Will they let you shoot a water filled 1 gallon milk jug.
It will likely stay in one piece so is easy to police

If so put a piece of cardboard several feet behind it and shoot the jug.

Jug will give you a hint of impact and cardboard will have a hole based on size of expanded bullet.

Cast 150 or 170 grain Flat Point Boolit in his future?

[Scharfschuetze]

M-Tecks beat me to the punch in suggesting a 125 grain bullet for your purpose. Here's a link to the Hornady "Low Recoil" version. It might give you an idea for loading for the Scout rifle of your friends.

http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win-125-gr-SST-Custom-Lite/

Penetration on those "everything is bigger in Texas" 100 pound whitetails only needs to be about 4 inches or so and a 125 grain spitzer at moderate velocity should work a treat if your friend is patient and selects his shots well.

I assume that you are hunting in the Central Texas Hill Country. When I was stationed at Fort Hood many years ago, 22 center fire rounds were legal to use on deer and I think that they still are. While not germane to the discussion at had perhaps, my Texas Hill Country hunting was fun and productive. I used a 222 Remington Sako Vixen at the time and I took only heart shots and with great success. The little round left the little white tails dead as snot after a short track. A well constructed 55 grain spitzer would shred their hearts like a little grenade.

[BigMagShooter]

I'd go with a ballistic tip of sorts, any wt in BT should work wonders.

[Frank46]

One of the old 300 meter loads as suggested to me when I wrote to the NRA was 38-41 grains IMR 4895 with a 125 grain sierra flat base spitzer loaded in the 30-06. Maybe drop down to 34-35 grains with the 308?. Frank

[triggerhappy243]

QUOTE: MY proposed solution is to replace the heavier-(j word) 150 gr. Spitzers with RNFPs intended for use in .30-30, at 2200 - 2400 f/s. Next to no .308 Win.

look at H-380, BL-C2 in the speer #13 manual for the .308

[MarkP]

Hornady 130 gr SSP bullets would be an option, however I believe these were possibly discontinued / halted during the ammo scare of 2008.

Hodgdon has a Youth Loads PDF that lists; Nozler 125, Hornady 130 SSP, and Sierra 135 in the 308 Win with 4895. All pressures are in the low 30k (CUP) range.

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Youth%20Loads.pdf

[Mk42gunner]

I've been thinking about this since the thread was started and I have a few questions for the OP. I'm having a hard time believing that a factory .308 Winchester load doesn't work on ~100 pound deer.

1. What load and bullet is he using? If it is one of the super bullets designed for controlled expansion on larger game like elk, I can see it not opening a lot on small whitetails. Maybe just a change to a plain old cup and core bullet like a Winchester PowerPoint will do.

2. Not to insult your friend, but are you sure he is hitting them in the right place?

If he really wants some lighter constructed bullets, another choice is the Speer 130 grain flat point meant for the .30-30. I have not shot a deer with one, but I did see a doe (~140 lbs) shot with the 125 JHP Federal loaded back in the 1980's. It was a facing shot and the bullet hit a bit high, but it still destroyed five ribs right next to the spine.

Just remember it is easy to push a .30-30 bullet faster than it is designed for in a .308, turning what should be a good bullet into a nasty little grenade.

Robert

[popper]

For >200 yds I'd go with the 125 black tip a lot of 300BO/40WT use. Lots of kills with that one @ 2400 fps & does pigs well too. If a 90gr 243 will do texas doe, 125 will do as well. G.S.hit front leg, deflected to bottom of rib cage - left lots of good meat.

[jcren]

I load the hornady 125 varmint bullet to 2200 fps for my wife's deer load in 3006. I found that bullet is the same bullet used in their Tac line of police ammo and is used extensively by ar and tac 308 guys for deer. At the reduced velocities it holds together fairly well and usually exits. The only one I recovered was a head on chest shot that stopped right at the ham in 3 major pieces.

[Motor]

Hodgdon has a list of "youth loads". For the .308 Win it's basically a 125-135gr bullet driven by a reduced load of H-4895.

You can easily use the 150gr if you want. Hodgdon says you can reduce the maximum published load. They say 60% of the maximum load can be used. They also say you can go 10% lower than that.

Don't take my word for it. Go to there web site and see for yourself.

Just as a side note I don't think reducing ball powder like W-760 is a good idea. It's likely you will get hang fires.

Motor

[izzyjoe]

I've shot a lot of deer with Rem 150gr core lokts in several 308's, and none of them went to far. They ranged from little bitty to 175lbs.