un burned powder

[txkeeter]

if i have un burned powder do i need to increase the charge

[runfiverun]

usually yes.
sometimes no, it's better to switch to a faster powder.
it depends on what your trying to accomplish and what powder you are using.

[44man]

Need more info but YES in most cases, pressure is not high enough.

[bangerjim]

Agree. Pressure is proabably your problem. But we need MUCH more info about what you are doing/seeing that what you gave above.

Lite loads, poor crimps and even bad/old powder can cause this - - - but for this gathered-knowledge group to help you diagnose this will require much more info from you.

banger

[mdi]

Prolly yes, a light load. IMO, this is also where the term "dirty powder" originates...

[Toymaker]

You could always lengthen the barrel..................... please, more info on what you're doing and what you hope to accomplish. Thanks.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

txkeeter,
welcome to the website.

Any chance your powder got contaminated ?

[Outpost75]

If the load is accurate, provides good ballistic uniformity and the amount of unburned powder does not impair reliability of function, I would not worry about it. Case in point, Alliant RL7 is the smokeless powder of choice for reproducing full charge blackpowder ballistics in the .44-40 rifle within standard pressures which are safe in the Winchester Model '73. A compressed charge of RL7 with 200-240 grain bullets (about 24-26 grains depending upon the bullet and seating depth) provides firm base support for the bullet in the same manner in which a compressed charge of black powder does. Such loads perform exactly the same as older pre-WW2 balloon head factory loads assembled with (now discontinued) Sharpshooter powder and give optimum performance in rifles, but may be safely used in revolvers.


This permits me to carry the same hunting ammunition in rifle and revolver, and while, yes, there is some unburned powder when fired in the revolver, velocity and accuracy are normal and the unburned powder causes no functioning issues as long as the muzzle is kept elevated when you eject the empties, so that any unburned powder is ejected with the brass, rather than being deposited in the revolver action. If you don't have RL7 a compressed charge of 4198 can be used in the .32-20, .38-40, .44-40, .357, .41 and .44 Magnums with the heavier standard-weight bullets for the caliber and produces about 1000 fps in a revolver and 1350-1400 fps in a rifle, depending upon barrel length. Soft alloys such as 1:30 give optimum hunting performance, the loads are accurate in Microgroove barrels, no gaschecks are needed and leading is not an issue.

Photo shows the amount of unburned powder from firing a cylinder load of my RL7 hunting loads from my 5" S&W Model 544.

168145 168147

[txkeeter]

new powder to me HP38 3gr 125 cast 38 special

[bangerjim]

The "H" book lists 3.8-4.8 gn as load spread. You are below the minimum and will potentially get unburned powder. I do when doing very light loads. "Forget-about-it" as they say in New Joisey!

How is performance at 3????? Accuracy, key-holing, etc?

banger

[txkeeter]

only tested a few rounds no keyholes out of 2 in taurus ultra lite

[Cherokee]

I like 3.3 gr 231/HP38 with 125 cast RF Lee bullets. Works fine for me in 38 & 357 guns.

[Shiloh]

Low pressure created unburnt powder. Even faster powders will do this. Increasing the crimp may help if threre is a crimp groove.
I have unburnt Unique in the mid velocity 38's.

SHiloh

[Bookworm]

If the load is accurate, provides good ballistic uniformity and the amount of unburned powder does not impair reliability of function, I would not worry about it. Case in point, Alliant RL7 is the smokeless powder of choice for reproducing full charge blackpowder ballistics in the .44-40 rifle within standard pressures which are safe in the Winchester Model '73. A compressed charge of RL7 with 200-240 grain bullets (about 24-26 grains depending upon the bullet and seating depth) provides firm base support for the bullet in the same manner in which a compressed charge of black powder does. Such loads perform exactly the same as older pre-WW2 balloon head factory loads assembled with (now discontinued) Sharpshooter powder and give optimum performance in rifles, but may be safely used in revolvers.


This permits me to carry the same hunting ammunition in rifle and revolver, and while, yes, there is some unburned powder when fired in the revolver, velocity and accuracy are normal and the unburned powder causes no functioning issues as long as the muzzle is kept elevated when you eject the empties, so that any unburned powder is ejected with the brass, rather than being deposited in the revolver action. If you don't have RL7 a compressed charge of 4198 can be used in the .32-20, .38-40, .44-40, .357, .41 and .44 Magnums with the heavier standard-weight bullets for the caliber and produces about 1000 fps in a revolver and 1350-1400 fps in a rifle, depending upon barrel length. Soft alloys such as 1:30 give optimum hunting performance, the loads are accurate in Microgroove barrels, no gaschecks are needed and leading is not an issue.

Photo shows the amount of unburned powder from firing a cylinder load of my RL7 hunting loads from my 5" S&W Model 544.

168145 168147

Tell me more about the compressed charge of 4198 in a 44 mag. I have a SBH 7.5" Hunter, and a SBH 5.5, and 2 cans of 4198 on the shelf....

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I agree with OUTPOST75. Dirty powders, unburned granules usually much ado about nothing. Does the load meet accuracy requirements of your usage? Does the load meet power requirements of your usage? Does the firearm remain functional for your usage? Clean? Unclean? Not important if other requirements are met.

[runfiverun]

not much to tell.
a too slow powder means a case completely full with some compression.
measure how much case volume you have after seating the boolit, use about 105% of that volume.
while your loading the 4198 try a case full of 4895 in those 44 mags.
yes it works.
what happens though is you get exactly the same results from round to round.
your velocity's go backwards toward a faster powder but your pressure goes down and your SD's usually tighten up.

[fatelk]

while your loading the 4198 try a case full of 4895 in those 44 mags.

I realize I'm going off topic here, but way back in the day when I was first reloading, my dad got a Marlin .44 mag. I got dies and bullets, but no powder. We wanted to shoot it and the only powder I had was some ancient 4831 that I reloaded 30-06 with. I can tell you that a compressed charge of WWII surplus 4831 under a 240gr JHP shoots fine out of a Marlin 1894. No idea what the velocity was, but it hit the target! I was young and stupid back then (older now :)).

OK, back to the topic at hand. I loaded and shot a box of .380acp this afternoon, using a very moderate charge of 231. I was a little surprised to see all the little powder specks all over the bench when I was done, but they shot totally fine as well so it didn't bother me.

[Outpost75]

Tell me more about the compressed charge of 4198 in a 44 mag. I have a SBH 7.5" Hunter, and a SBH 5.5, and 2 cans of 4198 on the shelf....

Not much more to say. You can't get enough into the case to get in trouble. Use long drop tube, settle as much as you can into the case as you can, compress as if loading black powder, standard weight bullet 230-260 grains for about 1000-1100 fps revolver, 1300-1400 fps rifle. Soft 10BHN alloy OK, no gascheck needed.

[Bookworm]

Runfiverun & Outpost75 - thank you both for the time. I'll have to try both loads.

I'm not new to reloading, but am definitely new to cast reloading....

....and it's way too much fun....

[runfiverun]

I like to go to the too slow end when I'm using a real heavy boolit too.
the 357 maximum and a 250gr boolit are usually not thought of as companions but put a bunch of 2230 under it and you suddenly have a 35 rem short in a revolver.
2230 isn't often thought of as a powder for the 25-20 either but under a 72gr plain base it shoots up near jacketed 86gr velocity's.
starting it out with a sr mag primer and letting it go do it's thing and it just keeps on pushing for most of the barrels length.

[gwpercle]

One of the reasons you see a minimum charge listed is powders have a minimum pressure they need to reach to get complete combustion. All powders are different.
For years I tried to get a light target load in 38 special with Unique, didn't know Unique wouldn't burn completely at low pressure. Gave up on Unique and got Bullseye...it is just the ticket for light low pressure target loads.
So you have to match the powder and minimum charge for the load you are trying to achieve.
Any time you get a lot of unburned powder you generally need more or a different (faster) powder.
Gary

[Nose Dive]

Mmmmm Unburned powder... Did you pay for it?

Believe OUTPOST 75 and gwpercle are on the money. If you are getting "what you want'... why worry. Albeit said...you are paying for unburned powder that you, I mean "I" want to do its job in my firearm. I have seen unburned powder and changed powder. That is just me. If you like what you have...keep it and go forth. And...I drink every drop of a Pepsi when I buy one. I paid for it.

Now.. Me...I burn alot of UNIQUE in 44 and and 45 cal. big boolits...large powder charges...mag primers... "Dirty Harry 44" with long barrel and 45 with 3-5/8 barrel... 45 is a ruger and 'loaded up" to 44 mag pressures and big boolits.... My 44s and 45s load is Elmer Keith loads and bit more of UNIQUE. So... Like the bang...like the guns...like the calibers...like the loads... and it makes me feel like I am a 'COOL HAND LUKE" because I am shooting loads like Elmer did. {I know I am really not LUKE..but my reloads...my guns...my fun...thats it}

So now...we go to my daughters 38 SPL caliber, S&W, Titanium snub nose, five round revolver. Light boolits, and lite charges of UNIQUE. And I don't like the bang, the accuracy and the recoil and daughter doesn't either... So...what to do?

We need to 'pull our heads out' here and change things. Different guns. Different uses of the firearm. Different weights of firearms...Different shooters...different sexes of users...different...different....So,,ugh...all things being DIFFERENT...wadda we do?

Back to standard primers...back to RED DOT or BULLSEYE or Titegroup or 231... calm down the charge and let's be 'sensible' for the daughter. I mean 7.5 grns of Unique in a 45 is not what the doctor ordered for a 38 SPL. in a short barrel..light weight pistol in the hand of a young, small female.

And while i SWEAR by the 125 gr HP XTP with 4.7 grns of BULLSEYE for any female...or me... I have changed her out to the 32 cal H&R 100 GRN HP lead BOOLIT under 2.6 grains or Red Dot. Eaiser,,quieter..less recoil and pistol is a bit bigger and 'easier to handle' per my daughter. I like Red and Blue Dot powders.

OK.. There it is for me. Let it be said...if I pay for powder...i like it to do its job for me. Try Red and Green dot powders...

Ohh.. OK... My 32 H&R Mag is a Nagant 1895 made at TULA in '49. Korean replacement cylinder, bored to 32 HR MAG specs via finish reamer.
Load is 100 Grn BOOLIT.. Mag Primer...H110 Powder.. 10.8 grns.... And ...to note...this is HOT...can blow up in your hand...make you blind and stupid for doing something you shouldn't have... But... my KOREAN cyclinder is strong and I test fire behind a tree with a vice and a trigger pull string. Don't be dum and try this with a RUSSIAN CYCLINDER in a RUSSIAN REVOLVER...

And, this Nagant, is my carry pistol in the field. Quiet, easy to handle, low recoil. Ruger makes one now too...

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagant_M1895