Trapdoor Loads

[Jruby38]

I would appreciate any recommendations loading my original trapdoor 45 70. I have been using 20G of 2400 with no filler and a LEE 405 G tumble lubed with 45/45/10. Accuracy is better when boolit is unsized. Nice and mild, cronny 1150 fps. I am having a hard time finding 2400 powder. Fun shooting a 150 year old assault rifle that was built 40 miles from my house in Mass. The gun is in good shape with Buffington sight and mint bore but I don't know what was the accuracy was when they were new. An old timer at the club told my use toilet paper as a filler. I have been using 2400 without any filler because I read it is not position sensitive.

[M-Tecs]

I like Unique in TD's for light loads. No filler needed.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?190999-My-Trapdoor-Loads-Technique-and-Equipment

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?305281-Trapdoor-carbine-load-with-smokeless-powder/page2

[crest117]

I shoot my 1873 Trapdoor almost weekly. I use a load of a 405 grain boolet from Hunters Supply with 32.5 grains of H4895. This is a mild load and seems to closely approximate the original black powder load. No leading and quite accurate to 100 yards which is as far as I shoot. I did find it necessary to make and install a taller front sight blade as the original was shooting way high at 100 yards.

[Jruby38]

Same here with the front sight. Used a 03 Springfield high one. Crest117 did you cronny. your 32.5 H4895 load? Has anyone used toilet paper for a case filler?

[crest117]

Jruby38, no I do not have access to a chrono but from research I have done, that load should be about 1200 to 1250 fps. There is no reason when using H4895 to use a filler. A hint for anyone wanting to shoot an original Springfield Trapdoor; the sights are set for about 225 yards when on the lowest setting. That will shoot about 18 to 24 inches high at 100 yards. The solution is to drive out the sight pin and replace the front sight blade with one about 1/4 inch taller (you can make the blade by filing a washer to size and then drilling a 1/16th inch hole for the pin). When you go to the range, take a file and slowly cut down the new blade until it is dead on at 100 yards. I find that mine will group about 4 inches at 100 yards, with a few flyers, and that is with my aging eyes. Incidentally, with the load I listed, I have some brass that has been reloaded over 20 times and is still usable. I use a Lee Loader kit and it works fine.

[JWT]

Read the posts linked by M-Tecs. Larry has done a lot of research on the trapdoor.

[iron brigade]

I use 34grains of I3031 with the Lee 405 hb as cast in both of my trapdoor Springfield rifles. Will shoot three shot one inch groups if I'm on my game

[crest117]

iron brigade, when I first started loading for my trapdoor I called Hodgdon about reducing loads. They informed me that the only powder they suggest reducing loads with is H4895 so that is what I have been using. Their lowest recommended load with IMR3031 is 45.5 grains which they give a velocity of 1597 fps. I am just curious, how did you know that 34 grains of IMR3031 was a safe load (as it obviously is)? My calculations tell me that that should move a 405 grain boolit at about 1300 fps. I am fairly new to reloading and am trying to learn all I can. Thanks in advance.

[NorthMoccasin]

+ 1 on the higher front sight. I have had great luck with AA 5744 and Lymans 457483 or the Lee 461 420 group buy bullet. No filler needed. about 27.0 g is an accurate load. I also use a duplex load of 5.0g 5744 + enough FFG to allow for slight compression + a fiber wad under either bullet. I use lyman BP lube. Accurate and great fun to shoot.

[iron brigade]

[QUOTE=crest117;3647512]iron brigade, when I first started loading for my trapdoor I called Hodgdon about reducing loads. They informed me that the only powder they suggest reducing loads with is H4895 so that is what I have been using. Their lowest recommended load with IMR3031 is 45.5 grains which they give a velocity of 1597 fps. I am just curious, how did you know that 34 grains of IMR3031 was a safe load (as it obviously is)? My calculations tell me that that should move a 405 grain boolit at about 1300 fps. I am fairly new to reloading and am trying to learn all I can. Thanks in advance.[/QUOTE
It is the starting load listed in the Lyman cast bullet handbook. According to the book velocity should be 1161 fps. 13grains of green dot works well to. No. Filler needed. 45 grains of 3031 seems like a lot to me. Rattle your teeth loose. Or worse..

[iron brigade]

I also replaced the front sights on both rifles with higher ones. Put the originals away. Just recently bought a 1887 martini Henry mk Iv in the unclean condition. It is all cleaned up and ready to shoot. Trapdoor vs the martini, should be fun!

[runfiverun]

Crest there is a lot of data out there.
you just gotta spend the time and look for it or cross reference stuff.
some of the older manuals are a wealth of information.
oh btw hodgdon was doing what we call cover your butt or get fired customer relations.
3031 is pretty much a fast lot of 4895 and 4064 is pretty much a slow lot of 4895 they will both reduce in the same way 4895 will.
4895 does reduce well but will also provide you with some seriously bad vertical stringing when it is.
it doesn't ignite well and burns erratic, the pressure doesn't go over maximum but your shots go up and down 6"s away from the center of the target.

I'd imagine the guy on the phone didn't tell you about that..

[JWT]

I'm using the load that Larry Gibson recommended to me of 25gr of 5744 with a .75gr Dacron (polyester) filler under the Lee 405 grain hollow base. Matches the M1873 ballistics so the sights don't have to be altered.

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[Cheshire Dave]

I'm not too sure about toilet paper as a filler. I loaded some 45-85-285's for a friends Colt pump. It's just the 45-70 with a light bullet. I used a 300 gr. RCBS and used 4198 with dacron filler. Bought a bag of it for making Teddy bears at fabric store. Also tore open an old pillow. Have enough for too many life times. Fill case with enough to lightly compress then weighed out a bunch of balls of it. They use it to duplicate black powder loads in old double rifles should be safe in your trap door.Use 40 percent of the blackpowder weight of 4198.