Pick this apart please

[rl69]

I was reading in acts. Paul was setting the world on fire, teaching Gentiles about Christ. Jewish believers where in a uproar.they started saying the Gentiles need to be circomsized. Paul took this to juruslum where after much praying and discussion Petter said there is no need to burden the Gentiles with laws we couldn't keep. So Paul took this message back across Greece where he meet a young man named Timothy whose mother and father where well respected. Paul wanted to use Timothy to spread the word so the first thing he did was circomsize him.

i read this 3 times just to be sure I was reading it right. I was.so I got to wondering why.what I came up with is you have to guard your testimony. There are a lot of things people call sin that is nothing more then mans ideas of how we should live.the truth is if you call yourself a Cristian you need to be above reproach. Your not going to turn anyone to Christ preaching with a beer in your hand.if you have a cowboy and his horse kneeling at the cross bumper sticker and your cursing at the car in front of you people see this and it strightens their pore opinions of Christians Don't get me wrong I'm not telling you you can't drink or use foul language what I'm saying is be awhere of where you are and who is around you.

when you get home tonight I want you to ask yourself two questions.do I want people see me as a Cristian man or a man of the world?If you want to be seen as a believer,ask yourself do I need to change anything about myself to make that happen?

[rl69]

Sorry for the spelling

[wv109323]

Paul said he was all things to all people so that he might win a few. Paul did not get caught up in local traditions or customs so that he could avoid the controversy and stay on his theme of "Jesus Christ and him crucified"
Circumcising Timothy was probably one less area that the Jews could attack Timothy as Timothy's message would reach both Jew and Gentile.
Paul's message to believers was that is something offended a person (christian brother or sinner) to abstain from it. Do not be a stumblingblock to a christian brother or lost sinner over an act or tradition. In Corinthians Paul gives the advice if drink(consuming a lot of wine) or meat(sacrificed to idols) offends the brother it is better to abstain than cause a controversy that a would drive a person from Christ.
You must think how your actions will affect those around you and do nothing to create a stumblingblock for them.

[Blackwater]

I think WV nailed it. If we're to reach people, there needs to be a "connection," and anything that we know in advance prevents our making that connection should be subservient to the mission. This is common in the spy/espionage trade, and it's just good sense in a lot of other areas, like sales. It's a simple matter of priorities, and our knowledge of the ways and customs and attitudes of the people we're dealing with, mainly.

Many have said the Bible "contradicts itself," but that reflects a pretty shallow interpretation of everything very literally. I believe the Bible is MUCH deeper than any strictly literal interpretation could ever penetrate. I believe it's often literal AND figurative, and demonstrative and instructive all at the same time. It's how we apply it that is the hardest thing to discern, simply because we "see through the glass so darkly." And that in turn, I think, is why we were told to "study to show thyself approved." And if I studied nothing BUT the Bible for the next 100 years, I doubt I'd be able to do more than crack the shell and penetrate a few points here and there. This is where scholars help, but even those have to be taken with a grain of salt, and put to the test. We, as Christians I think, must take NOTHING for granted, just because some supposed "expert" says it.

The biggest thing I usually look for in what I read and consider taking seriously, is simply whether it rings true given all the other stuff I know, or at least think I know about the Bible. The Bible has to be THE yardstick we measure everything by, but I once knew a man who literally didn't know how to read a ruler. We have to learn to READ that "yardstick" and UNDERSTAND it, which I think will always be an on-going project. But then, some seem to take to it more readily and easily than I do, so that's just me, really.

If there's anything I HAVE learned, though, it's that when we read it, we have to be "open" in the deepest sense of its meaning. It's not something we reach out and can grab, but more of something that kind'a seeps into us and takes a little time to sink in. This is why I pause so frequently to think and consider when reading it. But maybe I'm just a little denser than the average? I seem to always (usually?) get an intuitive signal when I hit upon something, and have to reread it maybe several times, and suddenly, the light goes on, and I see. It's amazing how that works, I think. But again, that's just me.

If the Bible seems to contradict itself, it's always, in my experience, because it's WE who are not seeing all that's there in it. And that's not hard to do. I've come, in life or reading the Bible or whatever, to always look for my errors, and take everything as speculative unless and until it's "proven" to me pretty thoroughly. That tends to keep me out of at least SOME trouble with it, but whenever something just doesn't seem to be adding up, I at least know it's me who's not quite up to snuff, and NOT the Bible. I've discovered too many times that really understanding what's written isn't always an instantaneous proposition. Again, I think that's why we were directed to "study to show thyself approved." Scholars like C. S. Lewis, G. K. Chesterton and some others have helped a lot. Chesterton's use and marveling at seeming paradoxes is pretty illustrative of how so many come to think of the Bible as being "contradictory" when in reality, it's US who contradict ourselves due to our failure to understand it properly and thoroughly. And there's SO much in it to consider!

To me, it kind'a shows how superior intellectually God is beyond our meager ability to understand things. Just my view, at least.

[Ickisrulz]

Paul said he was all things to all people so that he might win a few. Paul did not get caught up in local traditions or customs so that he could avoid the controversy and stay on his theme of "Jesus Christ and him crucified"
Circumcising Timothy was probably one less area that the Jews could attack Timothy as Timothy's message would reach both Jew and Gentile.
Paul's message to believers was that is something offended a person (christian brother or sinner) to abstain from it. Do not be a stumblingblock to a christian brother or lost sinner over an act or tradition. In Corinthians Paul gives the advice if drink(consuming a lot of wine) or meat(sacrificed to idols) offends the brother it is better to abstain than cause a controversy that a would drive a person from Christ.
You must think how your actions will affect those around you and do nothing to create a stumblingblock for them.

I agree. Christians often must give up their liberties for the weaker members of the Church.

[RP]

Grace

[WRideout]

I agree with Blackwater; I don't think the Bible should be read like the National Electrical Code. If one were to take every sentence in the most literal sense, we would still be stoning the adulterers. When I read the Bible, I can see a thread of grace and love running all through it. The greatness of the Bible is not that it gives you easy or "pat" answers; rather it requires thoughtful contemplation, and maybe returning to the same passage a few times.

Wayne

[Ken in Iowa]

I agree with Blackwater; I don't think the Bible should be read like the National Electrical Code. If one were to take every sentence in the most literal sense, we would still be stoning the adulterers. When I read the Bible, I can see a thread of grace and love running all through it. The greatness of the Bible is not that it gives you easy or "pat" answers; rather it requires thoughtful contemplation, and maybe returning to the same passage a few times.

Wayne

The NEC, that made me chuckle brother!

The more I return to the phrase spoken by Christ " go forth and sin no more" the better off I am with myself, my family and the world.

[Wayne Smith]

It has been attributed to many, but I think possibly Bishop Anslem may be the earliest - "Testify to Christ, if necessary use words".
If my life does not demonstrate my words I may as well remain silent.

[Wayne Smith]

Sorry for the spelling

We do have an 'edit' function. If you recognize your misspellings you can correct them. I used it twice on my short post above - my fingers stutter!

[Preacher Jim]

you missed the part that timothy was jewish by birth.Paul was stopping obsticles before they started.
fellows when you study the Bible you must know to whom was this written, what were the customs of the day. why it was written. then you can interpet the word to fit the situations today. for instance paul in corintianans wrote women keep quiet and ask your own husbands to women saved from temple prostitution. he was saying leave the old form of worship behind and get married and then you can fit the church.

[dverna]

We really need a "Bible for Dummies".

I have started studying a wee bit. One of the books I am reading is ... A Christians Guide to Refuting Modern Atheism. What I find disturbing is that many of the arguments presented hinge not on what is written, but how some of the original words have other meanings and we are interpreting them incorrectly.

In this modern age, with seemingly less educated people, it is difficult enough to get many people to understand what is written in plain English. To expect people to delve into "what they meant to write" and understand the nuances of translations is a losing battle.

And it only adds fodder to those, like me, who struggle with accepting 100% what is written in the Bible. If the Bible, cannot be easily comprehended, and requires a divinity student to understand, it is archaic and needs revamping. Word smithing becomes worrisome because we are left to trusting someone, other than God, to interpret what is in black and white.

[thegatman]

Circum what?

[Ickisrulz]

We really need a "Bible for Dummies".

I have started studying a wee bit. One of the books I am reading is ... A Christians Guide to Refuting Modern Atheism. What I find disturbing is that many of the arguments presented hinge not on what is written, but how some of the original words have other meanings and we are interpreting them incorrectly.

In this modern age, with seemingly less educated people, it is difficult enough to get many people to understand what is written in plain English. To expect people to delve into "what they meant to write" and understand the nuances of translations is a losing battle.

And it only adds fodder to those, like me, who struggle with accepting 100% what is written in the Bible. If the Bible, cannot be easily comprehended, and requires a divinity student to understand, it is archaic and needs revamping. Word smithing becomes worrisome because we are left to trusting someone, other than God, to interpret what is in black and white.

There are two books that can help you. The first is called How to Read the Bible for All Its Worth. The second is How to Read the Bible Book by Book. They are both authored by Fee and Stuart.

The first will explain how the Bible should be approached in general by taking into account the author's intended message, how the original audience understood the message and the type of language used. The second book goes through each book of the Bible briefly and provides the historical context, reason for the writing and other necessary background information. These books are inexpensive and worth their weight in gold.

I also recommend that if you are not doing so, you get yourself an easy to read modern translation. Forget the King James (1611 was a long time ago). If you are just starting to study the Bible, pick a children's translation (New International Readers Version is one). It will be so much easier and certainly more enjoyable.

[Blackwater]

I think you're right, Ick, for most people, but I've been reading the KJV for so long, I'd really miss the poetic prose. For me, at least, it'd lose something I've come to value. And one of the reasons I value it is that whenever I read it, the language in it kind'a prompts me to be alert that I need to REALLY focus on what's being said, and why, just as Jim pointed out. It's a never-ending reminder of how truly I "see through the glass darkly," and that tends to maintain my respect that principle as I go along in it.

But there are enough versions out there, and each has something to offer us all, I think, that given a little trial and error, we can all find one that suits us best. Even the best of the translations are going to be tinted for us, though, and I always try to keep that in mind whenever I read it.

Not many of us can or have the time to learn to read the original texts in the original languages. I'm currently reading Gerald Schroeder's "The Science of God," and he goes well beyond the science part into several texts including the Talmud and some other pretty old texts, and into parsing the words used and the way they are used, and explaining their meanings and shades of meanings in context, and that is about all an ol' country boy like me can really hope for. I always read stuff like this as speculative, and glean from it what I can, and that's been more than sufficient for it to have been worth reading. I also read slowly, and think about each paragraph and often, each sentence. I just seem to get a lot more out of it that way. But this is a book I think I'll do best with after a 2nd reading. Most really good books are like that, though. Who among us hasn't enjoyed Shakespeare better the 2nd time around, for instance?

And this is another of the reasons I've long considered humility to be the greatest hallmark and proof of one's real depth of belief in Christianity. If Christ was as humble as he seems to have been while He was here amongst us, how much MORE fitting is it that WE be even moreso? Doesn't matter if it's reading the Bible or much of anything else. Being willing to entertain the possibility that we've erred tends to cut down the number of times we do so, or at least that's been my experience.

The people planning great battles have to take into consideration the possibility that the enemy might break up all their initial plans, so the wise ones tend to usually provide a plan B if the first one doesn't work. And when they get pushed back, they regroup and proceed in the knowledge of what they've learned in their first efforts. That, to me at least, is a pretty good way to approach most anything or any question or effort in life. And if we truly "see through the glass darkly," there's probably going to be a lot of opportunity for plans B, C, D, etc. Maybe that was all planned by God to KEEP us humble? I dunno, but the thought keeps cropping up time and time again with me. And I've often taken note that Christ admonished us to "study to show thyself approved," and he did NOT say "Study and it'll all open up for you." It's in the sincere effort that we are most truly edified, I suspect. Just my view, based on my experience and evaluation, of course. I'm always open to anyone's sincere challenge to what I think. It's how I've learned most of what I am convicted about now, so I simply keep searching until whatever I need to know or want to know is revealed to me.

We've all heard that "eternal vigilance is the price of freedom." It seems to be true of our study, as well. Only in continuing to seek Truth can we find bits and pieces of it here and there, and sometimes, we find it in what to us seems to be surprising places, so I've learned to take most everything and everyone seriously. Others who've thought quite differently from me have taught me an awful lot, even if it was only by realizing something from their approach and words that I'd never quite really considered before. I stand open to change or modify or solidify my beliefs at any point where it seems warranted. But it's got to be REAL and powerfully convincing. I guess I'm just a hard sell, when it comes to opinions. I need real reasons to convince me. I think it comes from my very long lineage of old Scots farmers? Wherever it came from, it's served me pretty well, and kept me from swallowing a lot of stuff that was later pretty well proven to be wrong or flawed. If anyone comes up with a better way to approach these things PLEASE let me know! I could use it!

[Ickisrulz]

BW,

Just skimmed your post...

The KJV needs to be read with great care. Many words have changed meaning over the last 400 years. For example: "let" no longer means prevent, "suffer" no longer means allow and "conversation" no longer means behavior. There are lots of others. Oh, don't forget "baptize" is a transliteration because King James was a sprinkler and the translators didn't want him mad if they translated baptize as "immerse."

Also, older manuscripts have been found than those used to compile the Textus Receptus. Older manuscripts means they are most likely more accurate to the original writings. There have been corrections.

All in all the King James Version is inferior to the modern literal translations (NRSV, ESV and NASB to name a few). Yes, it's poetic.

[Preacher Jim]

550 words we have reversed the meaning of that are in the King James. get a New King james Version if you want. i love the poetic wording to but a child can not read it so does it help them?

[Boaz]

I have never had any but a KJV since a child . Reading and understanding it was taught in Sunday school and by my parents .
I don't begrudge people using a modern plain english version . There are a couple I don't think much of but better than no bible .

Like the old question ;
Whats the best bible ?
Answer ; One you will read .

[rl69]

I should have been more specific I fill I am being lead to teach this at or Thursday night roping and I'm looking for ways to make it flow better