Cast boolit loads for 7.62x54R?

[Hang Fire]

I recently picked up a sporterized (well, someone made the attempt) M30/59 carbine (the best I can figure for linage) for 25 bucks. Good bore, so tried some Czech mil ball, and the bloody thing is a tack driver, a real louden boomer/flame thrower, and kicks like the proverbial mule.

Slugged the bore, .301" x .312" respectively

I have a Lyman #311290 mould, so cast some up for a look see. The 311290 long bore rider nose is a good tight bore fit, with major diameter as cast at .313", lubed and gas checked at 215 grains.

The Lyman 1980 edition of Cast Bullet Handbook lists three powders, Unique, 2400 and 4227, and will likely start with those. But was curious if others have used this boolit for the 54R and might have some pet loads to share?

I also have several other Lyman 30 caliber moulds, but the 311290 looks like it could be a winner for the 54R.

[Buckshot]

...............You've got a nice tight Mosin there! An excellent slug for it would be the Lee C312-185R, and just for fun get the Lee C309-113F. It normally drops about .313" or a smidge larger.

For good loads for the M-N, simply use most any cast load used in the 30-'06 or any other full size 'War' cartridge. One of my favorites is 23.0grs of H4198. I use a dacron filler with it.

..............Buckshot

[Larry Gibson]

Hang Fire

I haven't used that particular bullet in the MN but have used others that were comparable in weight. I'd suggest 4895 with a dacron filler. Start at 26 gr and work up in 1 gr increments to 34 gr. Happiness will be found in the 1800-1900 fps range. My Finn M39 and M28 sniper like the 314299 over 32 gr Milsurp 4895 with the dacron filler.

Larry Gibson

[Hang Fire]

Thanks for the info Buckshot, and will certainly keep the Lee moulds in mind, I have several Lee round ball moulds, but no conicals except one for an 1858 Remington. All my loading manuals are old, some don't even list the 54R, and those that do aren't very forthcoming for data.

This is my first go with a M-N, most of them I have seen were war time production and machine finish was rather crude. But this action is a gem, little to no bluing, but workmanship finish (internal/external) borders on par with some commercial rifles of today. The 20 " barrel is Tula marked (star with upward arrow) 1937, (two years older than I) and has the long rear rifle sight graduated out to 2,000 meters, someone in the past installed an older Lyman sleeved ramp front sight with a brass bead. Kind of funny in a way, my old eyes have had problems for years with such open sight set ups, but in this instance, short sighting radius and all, clear as a bell.

Online research shows the low priced M-N is becoming quite popular and a sleeper that just needed a little awakening, one thing for sure, the design has certainly proved to be a durable one.

[Linstrum]

That is a tight bore for a Mosin-Nagant! I have two 91/59 carbines that run pretty close to 0.316". The case capacity is a tad more than the .308 Winchester and the ballistic performance runs about the same or a bit more, so like Buckshot says the .30-06 data is great. I really can't add much more in the way of pet loads except to say try using squirrel loads using a 0.315” round ball powered by no more than 3 or 4 grains of Unique or Red Dot. I don't use any case filler with these loads but I do point the muzzle up first before firing to get uniform results. The point of aim point of impact is quite different from full house loads with the ball load and you will need to compensate sighting the target because of that, I use a white-out typing correction fluid dot on the rear sight off to the side since the ball point of impact is off to the side due to less rotational air drag of the comparatively tiny 46-grain ball projectile. Performance is about like a .22 RF Magnum and about as noisy.

About a decade ago a friend gave me three fired 7.62 NATO rounds that had been picked up by a news film crew over in Bosnia-Herzegovina during the unpleasantness going on over their back then. The reason why they had been picked up was because they were left behind at a position where a sniper had been firing from a few days before plus they were rather odd looking. They had been wrapped with several turns of aluminum foil on the lower half and had a turn of solder wire wrapped around the extractor groove. Quite peculiar looking! As soon as I saw them I figured out why they were made up that way, they had been fired in a Mosin-Nagant! If you check the dimensions of the two cartridges you will see that the dimensions are extremely close, close enough for the NATO round to work in a Mosin-Nagant. The wrap of solder wire in the extractor groove was for the Mosin-Nagant bolt's extractor claw to grip. I have test fired several 7.62 NATO rounds that I modified the same way in my Finn 91/30 and they work great. Without the aluminum foil wraps around the lower half of the cartridge I would suspect that they would have a head separation since the NATO round is a bit smaller in diameter near the head than the 7.62x54R. I am not suggesting that you try this, it is just a technical curiosity.

[swabbie]

that's quite a story about those 308 rounds....whatever works eh?

[DanM]

I have too have had good luck with the Lee C312-185R in my Finn M39. Started with 2400, and am experimenting with R7 and IMR4350 W/ COW fill. Both look promising.

Linstrum....I believe those 308 rounds qualify as a "field expediant modification".

[dmftoy1]

I've had good luck with Lyman 314299 over 18.5-19 grains of 2400. (FWIW) Mine are sized at .312 . .

[beemer]

Another one for the Lee 180. I use 22 grs. of IMR 4198 and a bit of dacron. In fact 20-23 grs in 303, 7.62x54, 308, 30-06, 8mm and 7.5 Swiss.

I like the 308 story, it is amazing what people can come up with when its do or die.

beemer

[Newtire]

I only have one load so far. That would be 21.5 grains SR 4759 using the 8mm Lee 175 grain boolit sized down to .314".

I got my model 59 carbine at Big 5 back in 2000. It looked like brand new inside & out with grease in the bore & no rust at all.

This would be a great gun to have at the range just to discourage anyone from sitting too close. I don't shoot any military stuff thru it anymore!

[steif]

Hi,
What are the markings above the chamber? straight or bent bolt?
Anyway, with a .312 bore it just might be a Finnish made mosin, and the bores on those were around that size, and also if it is a real finnish carbine, even sporterized it might actually be worth a big chunk of change!
might even be able to get a few or a dozen of the 91/30's they sell cheap now if it is a real finn carbine!

[Linstrum]

I have never heard of a Finnish carbine as short as the model 59 Soviet. The Finn's idea of a carbine was the barrel shortened from 31 inches down to 27 inches! Like Steif says, though. check out the the markings on the barrel top or sides, if it has a "SA" inside a square box it is Finnish, the SA stands for "Suomi Armia", the Finnish name for their army. Probably what happened is it is a Finn rebuild that was a battlefield pickup from the Finn-Russian Winter War and Continuation War of 1939-1940 that was later carbinized by the Russians. The Russians cut off the barrels of long rifles to obtain pistol barrels during the wartime arms shortages when Adolf was pounding on the city gates of Moscow and Leningrad.

[steif]

Hi,
They made carbines of the model 24 and model 27 called the m27rv. Both are extra rare, as is the original 1910 mosin carbine. I think all 3 of these have around 20 inch barrels, give or take a inch or two, I can't remember for sure. all 3 of these variants would probably sell for a couple thousand if all original and complete. a lotta money for a mosin...lol.. but that shows the rarity of these carbines.

[Newtire]

In case you haven't seen this, here is but one of many Mosin Sites.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/mosincarbine/index.asp

[Hang Fire]

Hi,
What are the markings above the chamber? straight or bent bolt?
Anyway, with a .312 bore it just might be a Finnish made mosin, and the bores on those were around that size, and also if it is a real finnish carbine, even sporterized it might actually be worth a big chunk of change!
might even be able to get a few or a dozen of the 91/30's they sell cheap now if it is a real finn carbine!



The barrel chamber is marked Tula, (star with upward arrow) 1937, (beleive rifle to be a rebarrel, as the star is off center line of receiver to the right) s/n 189077, it has the standard short straight bolf handle.


The only markings on the receiver is on the bottom, just to rear of recoil lug, "KH 167" and a "R" below that.

[Hang Fire]

Here is the $25.00 M-N, poor attempt at sporterizing left it looking kinda like the wreck of the Hesperus, but it is a good one, as posted earlier, very well machined and finished action, bore slugged out at .301" x .312" respectively. Some one in the past had installed Lyman ramp front sight (which is waaay too high) with a brass bead, I had a Mauser K98 sight hood on hand, adjusted, it fit the Lyman just fine and took glare off the bead.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010010.jpg

Serbian PRVI boxer primed BRASS, 215 grain Lyman #311290 gas checked bullet, .313" as cast WW, chill dropped, was the best cast load, the long bore rider nose is engraved very good by the rifling lands. The round nosed Lyman #311467 at 183 grains was also very accurate, but the Loverin design would not be a good field load choice, as all the exposed lube grooves would be like a magnet for dirt and debris.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010008.jpg

I tried several different powders, but the 13.5 grains of Unique proved out the best, velocity should be a bit over 1500 fps. This load is very accurate for an old half blind fart like myself, all shooting was done from firm foam rubber rest off vehicle hood.

This is a five shot 50 yard target:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010006-1.jpg

Five shot 100 yard target:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010004-5.jpg

Just for the heck of it, picked on a big rock at little over 150 yards, the load still managed 6" groups with ease.

[Me not you]

I have a well used and abused M91 that has had some work done by the Finns. The bore is worn but smooth, the trigger is excellent, the stock has the finger-spliced modification. It shoots to point of aim with milsurp. I've been using the NOE316299 with WD-WW sized to 315 over Accurate 5744. It hits to the same point as the milsurp, and groups better. I'm guessing the bullet is going around 1900 fps with that 31"+ barrel (or maybe more).

[A pause for the COZ]

I've had good luck with Lyman 314299 over 18.5-19 grains of 2400. (FWIW) Mine are sized at .312 . .

Yes sir this is also what I shoot.

I would think " The Load" Would also work. Thats 13gr of Red Dot

[garymcgehee52]

In my Finn39 I use the Lyman 314299 and 18gr of 4759.

[madsenshooter]

Interesting .308 in 7.62x54. That's likely the source of "They can shoot our ammo but we can't shoot theirs" from the Vietnam war. Thinking only of the US 5.56 and .308, and the short Russian, I thought a lot of those guys were full of it, including one tunnel rat friend that recently moved on to a better place. But he was right, I just never thought about the 7.62x54. Should've realized he knew enough about guns to know what he was talking about. Sorry Arzy!

[Jack Stanley]

Madsenshooter , I spoke to a fella once who was absolutely positive that AK-47 ammo could be fired in the M-16 back then . No amount of information concerning bore and case dimensions or even headspace was going to convince him otherwise . I finally had to back away from his superior intelect .

Jack

[Me not you]

I'm using the NOE316299 in a Finnish M91 with excellent results. For an experiment, I tried the LEE 0.308 Win collet die on a fired case. The shoulder at the base of the neck was squeezed slightly, but not enough to be a problem. The neck was completely sized except for the very top of the neck, which left it slightly belled. This is excellent for use with cast bullets. All loads for the M91 are now processed with the collet die, and each case has been processed five times. A little work with a 1/2 inch drill bit should relieve the collet enough to not go below the case neck, at this point I don't see a need.

[Silence is golden]

My personal favorite loads are:


PPU brass federal large rifle primer 43 grs. Of Varget with 180 gr. Sierra game king .308 dia. This load is good for deer and elk.




PPU brass federal large rifle primer 52.4 grs. Of Varget with 150 gr. hornady SST .308 dia. This is my load of choice for coyote and other large pests.





This is a fun and very low noise load I cooked up for my Russian M91/30 that has a .308" bore you can shoot this load all day with out ear plugs and your ears won't ring at all


PPU brass federal large pistol magnum primer 3 grs. Of Bullseye with a little bit of a Cotten ball to keep the powder against the primer 180 gr. LEE .309-180r bullet lubed with 50/50 beeswax and LLA without a GC Use with fire formed cases This is a good plinking load but also works good for ground squirrels