Any quirks noted with the milsurps?

[Blackwater]

Fellas, you've RUINT me! Now after moulds and other paraphenalia, I've got to get some of those big cans of milsurp powder! THANKS!

Just wanted to ask if any of you have noted any quirks in any of them that are worthy of note. On another thread, it's been noted that the quick burning lot of 820 tends to not work great in reduced loads sometimes in pistols. I've also had some ball powders exibit rather sharp pressure rises with small increases in charge weight, but that's nothing new, either.

Just wanted to know if any of you can contribute info of that type re these powders, so I and others can make more confident selections.

Two I want info on, specifically, are 844 and 846 (I think I got the #'s right?). One's supposed to be somewhat similar to H335 and the other to BLC2. I'll probably use them in an '06, 7x57, .270, Ackley Whelen and who knows what else.

Thanks for any info you can provide. Our modern powders have few quirks in them, but there's no way known to eliminate them completely, and with so many powders available today, some are aimed at specific niches and don't transfer to other uses all that well. Thanks.

[Bullshop]

Bout 16 or 17 years ago I got a couple kegs of wc-846. It turned out to be my most favoritis powder for the marlin 45/70 with the RCBS 425. My load of 52gn gave right at 1800 fps and shot way good. It finealy run out and I was able to persuade a friend to brave the canadian border mafia and bring a couple more kegs. Well I thought I was gruntin in tall cotton till I tried my old favorite from the new lot. Was lucky to break 1500 fps and cases were smoked from end to end. Subsiquent messings have placed the second lot closer to H 414 which is good for lots a stuff but blew my old faithfull out of the water. Moral of the story - expect big time variation from different lot #'s of surplus powder.
BIC/BS

[Lee]

Funny you should ask. I got a jug of 846/BLC-2 from one of the popular web sites, price too good to pass up. I have a couple observations I'll pass on, along with some questions of my own.

Not finding much loading data for the 846/BLC-2 in a 45-70, I did some estimating, best guessing and settled on a start charge of 40g with a 300g cast boolit. (Didn't want to take any chances.) Well, the chrony said about 1300fps, the cases were smoked about 1/2 way back, and there was a bit of debris in the barrel.

Now the same powder, 40g with a 500g cast boolit. This time the cases come out clean(no smoke), the barrel looks cleaner, and the velocity is about 1400fps(one shot w/chrony, the light was going)...((and the report seemed sharper, definitely more kick))

Might I infer that smoke=incomplete combustion. A lighter bullet only getting 1300fps due to incomplete combustion.

Might I infer that no smoke=complete combustion. A heavier bullet promoting more complete combustion??

Or do I have this all wrong??

My gut instinct is that I can work with this powder, and for the price, it's hard to beat.....................................Lee ;-)

[StarMetal]

Yes and no.

The lighter bullet load didn't produce enough pressure to expand the case against the chamber walls thus sealing off the combustion gases. The heavier bullet did creaste more pressure to seal the case and burn the powder more completely.

Joe

[PatMarlin]

Fellas, you've RUINT me! Now after moulds and other paraphenalia, I've got to get some of those big cans of milsurp powder! THANKS!

Blackwater- you were safer over at the church.... :mrgreen:

[454PB]

I've been buying milsurp in bulk for a long time. My suggestion is to buy a bunch of the same lot, then use your own chronograph, loading skills, and extensive note keeping to build loads. Keep it properly stored and in an area where it can be quickly removed if necessary. You might not want your neighbors knowing how much you squirreled away, they might get concerned......

I worry more about all the 20 pound propane bottles and containers of gasoline sitting around my neighbors yards, but they don't think the way I do.

I avoid IMR powders ever since I had a some go bad, just a personal preference and prejudice. I've never heard of ball powder deteriorating.

[PatMarlin]

So in essence your saying if you have enough powder, you can spend the time to discover an accurate load for the MilSurp, then be locked in a good deal.

Actually did that make sense? I don't know what- in essence I'm saying.. :shock:

[Lee]

StarMetal, that's what I was thinking. The lighter bullet didn't develop enough pressure to seal, thence the smoked cartridge case.
Now the question of the day seems to be; In that case, is a faster powder called for??? Or do I adjust the charge of the powder I am using in some way????
My gut instinct is that I will have to go to a faster powder????......Lee ;)

[StarMetal]

I think I would go to a faster powder for just the lighter bullet.

Joe

[454PB]

So in essence your saying if you have enough powder, you can spend the time to discover an accurate load for the MilSurp, then be locked in a good deal.

Actually did that make sense? I don't know what- in essence I'm saying.. :shock:

What I meant was that if you buy one eight pounder and it takes you a year to use it up, the next container may be a different burning rate. I buy at least two, and better yet four. I have split shipments with friends and family to spread the cost. My supplier doesn't charge hazmat fee for four containers.

[Buckshot]

............Lee, you can do 2 things. One (and easiest) is to just load up 3 rounds each with increasing charges. Obviously as the powder uses up more space (and have added more fuel) your velocities will increase. I suspect it will do well. I'd use 2.0gr increases watching pressure indicaitons.

Second thing you can do is to add a tuft of dacron (spun polyester, pillow/quilt/stuffed animal filling) and that will increase your pressure a bit too. MIght clean it up at that charge.

I checked back and don't see what your 45-70 is? I assume it's not a Trapdoor, right?

When I built a 35 Rem on a small ring Mauser action, I went into load developement. First up was pistol boolits as fun plingers, etc. Eventually got to the 200gr cast rifle slugs and then hit on WC846. I forget now what I started out with. WHat was interesting was the more I added the faster it went (well, DUH), but at the same time the groups got smaller and smaller until I just flat ran out of cartridge case.

Ended up with a full caseload (41.0grs) with the slug sitting on top of the charge. Velocity was 2250 fps and groups at 50 yards (iron sights) was a tidy inch or so. Had factory stuff beat all to heck (jacketed Win & R-P doing like 1995 and 2075) and only modest pressure indications. About perfect.

...............Buckshot

[Lee]

It's a repro. Pedersoli Italian make with 32" barrel. I'm not too interested in 2000fps out of it. In fact the 500g at 1400fps seems to do enough damage just like that. The 500g case was not hard to extract, the primers did not show any flattening or bulging. I could probably bump up the charge to get 1500fps. That's about as fast as I'd want................................ ;-)