Marlin 1895 45-70 mold choice help (feeding concerns)

[45coltnut]

Hello fellow casters,

If I could lend your ear, I'd like to request some of that infinite wisdom that resides here. My main question is boolit design for good feeding. But, I'll give you all the details below as well.

I recently became the proud owner of a 1975 Marlin 1895 45-70, from a fellow member here. She's a beauty and is currently shooting well for my tired eyes and peep sights (1" @ 50 yds). But, she's got a leading problem. Not bad, just enough to annoy me.

I currently own an NOE 460405PB 167519 mold that I'm using. It drops around .461" and my sizer is set up for .460". I slugged the barrel on the Marlin and its at .4605". So, for my first session at the range I decided to try powder coating the NOE boolits with no sizing as they are .462" or so. They are being pushed around 1650fps. But, even with powder coating and NO sizing, I'm getting some leading at that speed. I'd like to stay around this fps. So, I figure a new mold with gas check would work. I honestly don't want to fool with the powder coating anymore. Call my a traditionalist or just old foggie. Either way, I like to look of a nice casted boolit with no makeup on :)

Onto my question as I'm not that familiar with lever guns and casting. My other 45-70 is a Winny 1885 High Wall. So, I'm curious if I need to be careful of any specific boolit design for feeding concerns? I'm looking at getting an Accurate mold for this gun in 405 grains. But, I may go to a 350 as well. Either way, my current NOE has boolit "head" length of .395". And, it feeds OK in the Marlin. The ones I'm looking at on Tom's site are longer with a wider meplat (.40"-.45"). Does anyone have any knowledge of feeding issues with WFN boolits?

The design I like most is the 46-405VG http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405VG-D.png. But, the 46-405T http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405T-D.png has a shorter boolit "head" at .40" and would match my NOE design closely.

OK, I'm done rambling and hoping the above makes sense :) Thanks for all advance

[claude]

I shoot the 46-430VG, which is the same design as the 46-405VG, same nose length in my 1895 Marlin with no feeding issues. One does have to cycle it briskly rather than slow-mo in order for it to be fool proof. I say that because I am in the habit of slow cycleing in order to catch my brass as it comes from the ejector. With the 46-430VG I some times need to do the jiggly feed because I stop the motion at the bottom of the stroke. If I am ejecting the brass outright, there is no problem.

[45coltnut]

Thanks Claude. I've wondered on the 430, actually. What drew you to this design / weight if you don't mind me asking? Also, what load and velocity did you get to work the best? Just curious as I do like the thought of the 430 grain.


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[Edward]

My Marlin 1895 /78 vintage likes NOE 460-350-RF either GC over 1500 and PB under (no leading) and sized 460/459 with being accurate 1.5 -3 inch @100 and 3.5 -5 @200 less lead and less hurt on my end .I tend to stay 1100-1300 FPS ,also like 12g Unique/and 2400 powder loads . Have heavier molds but they tend to stay on the shelf .

[claude]

OP, the massive meplat was the draw, I had a freind send me some 465gr boolits he casts from an LBT mold, and I liked them but was more decided on a 430gr boolit for mostly arbitrary reasons. I thought it was a good compromise between the 405gr and the 465gr boolits and as my goal for velocity is in the 1500 fps range it has a slightly less perceived recoil.

At present I am loading Starline brass, Winchester LR primers and 44grs of IMR 3031 @1550'ish. It is a nice load, the trajectory is fair for 150yd shooting and the perceived recoil is comfortable, I wouldn't say it was mild, but it isn't a paper load, it is a meat load. I have some 350gr Laser Cast that I thought should run around 1750, they are zero fun to shoot and I'll be a happy man when I have finished off the last few rounds I have left. The rest will go into my casting pot and be repurposed. Point being, I'm no fan of blazing fast 45-70 loads because I see no need for the speed and don't enjoy getting the **** beat out of me to "have some fun"

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

You did not mention your alloy. I use range scrap and pure lead 50/50 for many of my .45-70 loads with BAC lube and sized through a .458 die. Several different bullets, but not yours specifically. No leading in my Marlin 1895 Cowboy or Shiloh Sharps. You might want to try slowing that bullet down. You are entering the range where some plain based bullets will lead. I have shot plain based bullets in Marlin 1894 .44 mag with microgroove rifling to 1800 fps without any leading. Different combinations of bullets, powder, lube, etc. are all variables that affect success.

[45coltnut]

Thanks for the reminder Charlie.

I'm casting WW + 2% tin.


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[W.R.Buchanan]

You guys and your 450 gr boolits at 1600 fps! :veryconfu I don't know how many of these you can shoot in a 7 lb gun, but I would be good for about 2 per session.

I have been using RCBS .45-300FNGC with 33 gr of 5744 for a Cowboy Silhouette Load which develops about 1550fps. I can shoot 40 of them in one session with a tee shirt and no ill effects. Gun is sighted dead on at 150M and is about 3" high at 100M and 12" low at 200M.

I have installed a C&H Mercury Recoil Reducer in the stock and a 1" Pachmayer Recoil Pad, to help mitigate the recoil of this 1895 CB that weighed 7lbs 1 oz before, and now weighs 8lbs 3 oz. The gun is very tolerable to shoot however it will not let you go to sleep, you definitely have to pay attention.

Your loads would have from 25-40% more recoil than I am taking right now which is about the same as Name Brand Factory 180gr .30-06 loads, which is about all I can tolerate and still be accurate. For hunting I could survive a couple of heavy 400+gr loads, but sighting the gun in would definitely take it's toll. ( Lead Sled !!!)

The boolits are loaded and crimped into the groove at 2.550 OAL. They feed perfectly thru the gun at any speed. It has a little less Meplat than the other boolits mentioned above but I feel that is of little consequence since those Steel Rams will never know the difference. This particular boolit is available in 300, 405 and 500 gr sizes with the same nose length on all versions. Just more driving bands and lube grooves on the longer versions. The design is very old and has been successful for a long time because it was designed specifically for Marlin and Winchester Leverguns.

I can see a 400+ gr boolit for hunting,,, but for any other type of shooting all I see is nothing but needless pain and anguish.

Also any Plain Based Cast Boolit will start to lead barrel above about 1500fps. You need gas checks above that speed for virtually any type of boolit.

Keep in mind that every animal on earth had been taken by .45-70's running at 12-1300 fps by the beginning of the 20th century. Kind of funny how it is more popular now than it was 100 years ago.

Randy

[Oklahoma Rebel]

rattlesnake is right, a softer alloy could help, because it would expand to seal the rifleing better and also with a boolit of that weight 1200-1400 is a good range, believe it or not if you go too fat you will lose penetration. I shoot a noe 420gr fp at about 1300, and it sailed through 5 water filled gallon milkjugs. it ended up with a diameter of about .7 at the front, would have been instant death on anything short of a grizzly.

[Duckiller]

I have the cowboy version,26" barrel. Because of brilliant Cal legislators and Fish and Wildlife commissioners who have sold out to HSUS I don't use it for hunting. I use two Lee molds, 330gr and 405gr. Cast with COWW both do a great job of putting holes in paper using minimal + loads of Trail Boss. Leading is not a problem when I use Carnuba Red lube.

[Blackwater]

One other suggestions for your leading would be to try another lube. Maybe something firmer? Rifle barrels, being longer, can sometimes want more or harder lubes to keep leading down, or even eliminate it. If you already like your bullet and load, this is what I'd try first, but YMMV, of course. Just a thought.

[dh2]

I am using the NOE 460-405 in my Marlin it does very well, It does well cast very soft, I started with RCBS 45-405 mold but it drops the boolit .458 not the best for my rifle

[Geezer in NH]

Hello fellow casters,

If I could lend your ear, I'd like to request some of that infinite wisdom that resides here. My main question is boolit design for good feeding. But, I'll give you all the details below as well.

I recently became the proud owner of a 1975 Marlin 1895 45-70, from a fellow member here. She's a beauty and is currently shooting well for my tired eyes and peep sights (1" @ 50 yds). But, she's got a leading problem. Not bad, just enough to annoy me.

I currently own an NOE 460405PB 167519 mold that I'm using. It drops around .461" and my sizer is set up for .460". I slugged the barrel on the Marlin and its at .4605". So, for my first session at the range I decided to try powder coating the NOE boolits with no sizing as they are .462" or so. They are being pushed around 1650fps. But, even with powder coating and NO sizing, I'm getting some leading at that speed. I'd like to stay around this fps. So, I figure a new mold with gas check would work. I honestly don't want to fool with the powder coating anymore. Call my a traditionalist or just old foggie. Either way, I like to look of a nice casted boolit with no makeup on :)

Onto my question as I'm not that familiar with lever guns and casting. My other 45-70 is a Winny 1885 High Wall. So, I'm curious if I need to be careful of any specific boolit design for feeding concerns? I'm looking at getting an Accurate mold for this gun in 405 grains. But, I may go to a 350 as well. Either way, my current NOE has boolit "head" length of .395". And, it feeds OK in the Marlin. The ones I'm looking at on Tom's site are longer with a wider meplat (.40"-.45"). Does anyone have any knowledge of feeding issues with WFN boolits?

The design I like most is the 46-405VG http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405VG-D.png. But, the 46-405T http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405T-D.png has a shorter boolit "head" at .40" and would match my NOE design closely.

OK, I'm done rambling and hoping the above makes sense :) Thanks for all advanceWhy size to smaller than the bore? Lube and shoot unsized.

[45coltnut]

Yes, this is what I did with the pc boolits. It was my only choice after slugging the bore. I guess even with the pc on the bullets, the 1650 fps still allowed for some leading. I'm going to buy another mold from Tom at Accurate, that will be .462". Then, I'll size at .462" as long as it drops that large. Hopefully so.


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[quietmike]

I also use the Accurate 46-430vg and it feeds and shoots very well for me under H-322.

[MT Chambers]

I also use the Accurate 46-430vg and it feeds and shoots very well for me under H-322. That is a very good recipe for a "ringed chamber".

[quietmike]

That is a very good recipe for a "ringed chamber".

Took me a minute to understand what you meant.

Should have been over H-322.