What is choking me?

[dahermit]

This is a post I made to another forum. Some of responders are blaming the powder coating, some Titegroup powder. The choking is sudden and seems to take my breath away...it is just not an inocuous "smell". Has anyone else experienced this?
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=575823

[mannparks]

No choking

[Walter Laich]

could be you have developed a sensitivity to some component. This has happened to be twice.

[Teddy (punchie)]

You can and may react to anything that, as I say has a smell. Ever hear of Migraines. Sinus area, breathing are some of the first to react. Something is setting you off. Can be something else to. Did they spray for weeds, paint, coat the roof, maybe they treated the road, wood.

Sometimes it is a combination of things to set someone off.

[dahermit]

could be you have developed a sensitivity to some component. This has happened to be twice.It does not seem to be an allergic reaction inasmuch as it is instantaneous (no time for the body to produce histamines), when the wind blows the smoke back into my face.

[dahermit]

You can and may react to anything that, as I say has a smell. Ever hear of Migraines. Sinus area, breathing are some of the first to react. Something is setting you off. Can be something else to. Did they spray for weeds, paint, coat the roof, maybe they treated the road, wood.

Sometimes it is a combination of things to set someone off.It only happens when the smoke hits me from firing...infrequently. Most of the time the smoke is not blown into my face. There is no other irritant present. It is either Titegroup or the powder coating.

[dahermit]

could be you have developed a sensitivity to some component. This has happened to be twice.The only variables seem to be Titegroup or the powder coating. The Federal primers, Bullseye, Alox do not seem to cause the reaction. It has only happened when I shoot Titegroup and Sky Blue powder coating from Powder by the Pound.

I thought that once cured, powder coating was pretty much inert...why then would it be off-gassing when fired...unless of course it is the Titegroup, then others should have experienced the same thing when shooting in indoor ranges.

I cannot believe that someone else has not experienced this.

[square butte]

The human body can develop an intolerance to anything it does not like - And the reaction to it can be as varied and different as the number of different bodies.

[bstone5]

Install a gas check on the bullet, the gas check will keep the powder explosion from comming in contact with the powder coat. There has been reported that titegroup reacts with some powder coats.

There are several sources of gas checks for plan base cast bullets. Do not use is another choice.

[ryokox3]

Need to load some up with sky blue PC and a new powder, and some with a different or no pc (probably better to go with no pc) and titegroup.

[OS OK]

Do you know for a fact that your oven is coming up to 400 degrees and curing that PC correctly? If so, what means did you use to verify this? Could be that the PC is off gassing some. We have talked about the oven temp. problems before here and lots of people have discovered that these cheap little 'Chinese' ovens are lying to us. Communist do that you know!

OS OK

[Mica_Hiebert]

Ammonia gas from the powder? My ar15 will do that to me if I run it suppressed.

[RogerDat]

I too seem to recall mention of Titegroup and PC reaction with at least some PC coatings. IF that was the situation the bottom of the bullet would be where the reaction would take place, firing would probably distribute that "altered" material into the air.

Might try an experiment. Put a few of your PC blue bullets into some Titegroup in a container and leave for a week or two, see if the PC reacts. If it blisters or becomes flaky or something that would let you know your source. Reminds me I have to test this myself. I like titegroup for revolver and need to confirm it will not cause a problem. In most of the pistol I would load the PC is just for fun, maybe a few of the hotter magnum rounds it provides superior lubrication. I can always use TG for the tumble lube rounds I crank out for plinking and practice.

[rsrocket1]

I was performing and am still doing the experiment. Titegroup and other high nitroglycerin powders do react with the polymer in Harbor Freight Red (only powder coat I'm currently testing). If you have an RCBS powder measure and left Titegroup in it overnight, you'll see the same thing. I'm about to open up some bullets sitting for 6 months with the powders sitting against them hand pressed into cartridges.

I don't think that is the culprit. Either you are reacting to the Titegroup smoke or perhaps gas cutting of the polymer.

Easy enough to isolate the problem. Load up some tumble lubed bullets with Titegroup. Load up some Powder Coated bullets with Unique, Bullseye or other powder you happen to have and shoot 'em and get the smoke into your face.

[runfiverun]

you do know titegroup erodes powder coating and some other plastics too.

leave it in your rcbs powder hopper for 2 weeks and be ready to scrape the powder off the sides.

switch powder.

[dahermit]

Do you know for a fact that your oven is coming up to 400 degrees and curing that PC correctly? If so, what means did you use to verify this? Could be that the PC is off gassing some. We have talked about the oven temp. problems before here and lots of people have discovered that these cheap little 'Chinese' ovens are lying to us. Communist do that you know!

OS OK
The oven was adjusted to 400 degrees using a separate oven thermometer...before that, I melted a batch of bullets by going with the setting on the knob. So, I know its hitting 400. After the bullets get shinny, I set the timer for 15 minutes. The bullets do pass the hammer test... other than that, I don't know how to test for full-curing.

[dahermit]

Easy enough to isolate the problem. Load up some tumble lubed bullets with Titegroup. Load up some Powder Coated bullets with Unique, Bullseye or other powder you happen to have and shoot 'em and get the smoke into your face. I was hoping that I would not have to do the experiments...that is why I asked here if anyone else was running into the same problem.

[dahermit]

Ammonia gas from the powder? My ar15 will do that to me if I run it suppressed.It does not smell of ammonia.

[dahermit]

switch powder.Not likely...I recently bought an eight pound container of it. It is going to be used-up, come hell or high-water.

[runfiverun]

then drop the powder coating.

your only other choice is to store them boolit up and load them the day before.
you could also not coat the base and see...
anyway you know what the problem is.

[Spector]

I would think the smokeless powder produces the smoke and the powder coat rides to the target on the boolit.

Mike

[MediumCore358]

Just a thought... does this happen throughout your entire shooting session or just when you begin? I don't know how you care for your guns but if your bore was oiled well before shooting I could see that making some strong fumes depending on what oil you use.

[dahermit]

Just a thought... does this happen throughout your entire shooting session or just when you begin? I don't know how you care for your guns but if your bore was oiled well before shooting I could see that making some strong fumes depending on what oil you use.Not when I just begin...the wind has to be just right to blow it back into my face. Most of the time when the wind is not blowing and I have no problem.

[dahermit]

then drop the powder coating.

your only other choice is to store them boolit up and load them the day before.
you could also not coat the base and see...
anyway you know what the problem is.I don't know what the problem is...at this point. It could be the powder coating I am using (they are not all the same formula), the Titegroup, or even insufficiently curing of the powder coat.

[fishingsetx]

The oven was adjusted to 400 degrees using a separate oven thermometer...before that, I melted a batch of bullets by going with the setting on the knob. So, I know its hitting 400. After the bullets get shinny, I set the timer for 15 minutes. The bullets do pass the hammer test... other than that, I don't know how to test for full-curing.
Wipe a bullet with a rag soaked in acetone. If the rag tries to stick, the powder isnt cured completely.

Im betting more on it being a powder issue issue. There just isnt enough powder coating coming off a bullet to cause a reaction. There is a lot more smoke and residue from the gun powder. Like someone said, carry some uncoated bullets with you and next tine it happens, try them out

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[Smoke4320]

do not coat the base on 10 rds .. load as normal .
Wait for wind to be in your face
shoot
if you still react its the powder not the PC

[fredj338]

Part of it could be the TG, it burns hotter than any other powder I have used. Some complain about the smell of this or that powder, regardless of bullet.

[runfiverun]

powders do have a distinctive smell.
I could tell who was using clay's, red-dot, and 700-x on the line when trap shooing.
700-x is a super distinctive smell in a 12 ga.
red-dot always gave a slight ball of smoke, and clay's would leave a column of nearly clean heat in front of the barrel.

[dahermit]

powders do have a distinctive smell.
I could tell who was using clay's, red-dot, and 700-x on the line when trap shooing.
700-x is a super distinctive smell in a 12 ga.
red-dot always gave a slight ball of smoke, and clay's would leave a column of nearly clean heat in front of the barrel.
Off the subject of powder coated bullets, but when I was trap shooting using clay's I was amazed at how clean my barrel was after shooting three or so rounds (four would leave my shoulder with a dull ache the rest of the day), of trap compared to some of the other powders I tried. I had forgotten about that until you mentioned it. Also, as I remember when I was young in the late fifties, early sixties, how the commercial shot shells smelled...none of the powders I have ever used for shotguns have ever had that pleasant distinctive smell.

[chutesnreloads]

I've had occaisions with same type thing.Not choking so much as kinda a feeling like dust in my throat.Makes me cough.Noticed it with both cast and jacketed bullets,rifle and handgun.Only sometimes when wind is just so.Never paid attention to what powder was burning.Sure won't make me stop shooting

[RP]

Its your wife for spending to much money on everything but her look around the house for one of those voodoo dolls. :kidding:

[MediumCore358]

Alox and trailboss at low velocity made me cough today:wink: seriously. I wonder if the msds for that powder coat would be specific to color or just general, just to see what compounds may be in that specific colors pigment.

[dahermit]

Another thing I noticed when shooting Titegroup and those Blue powder coated bullets was, when shooting paper targets (only to test a load, steel targets most of the time), they left a noticeable black smudge where they passed through the targets. Considering that recovered powder coated bullets are pretty much intact, Titegroup must be depositing a lot of carbon on the bullets when fired.

[DerekP Houston]

I don't have an issue with TG, but my surplus 5.56mm rounds have a nasty gas that makes me cough anytime I shoot it indoors. That ammo has been regulated to outdoor duty only. I would bet you developed a sensitivity to something in the powder. I have the same problem with latex gloves now though I used them for a decade in the kitchen I can no longer wear them without a rash.

[runfiverun]

I don't know what the problem is...at this point. It could be the powder coating I am using (they are not all the same formula), the Titegroup, or even insufficiently curing of the powder coat.

we know that titegroup erodes powder coating, it makes it soft and mushy and sticks to it.
think about that.
then add in the extra heat it burns with.
you have a chemical reaction here.

[WMB30]

Change powder

Bill