Trimming cases.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Today I lubed sized deprimed, trimmed and chamfered inside and out 60 30-30 shells. It took me 40 minutes to complete the task. I used the Lee case length gauge trimmer with the benefit of a 4 volt drill driver. Set up time for each process was included in the time. I don't want this to be a contest but was just wondering how long it would take to do these tasks using other trimming systems. I have used other systems in the past and I personally feel the Lee tools I used are the fastest I have used especially using the 4 volt drill driver. The shells were all within .001 to .002 in spec for trim to length numbers. Any and all comments are welcome.

[DLCTEX]

I agree.

[EDG]

Lee should have put a 1/4" chuck shank on all those cutters. I put one on the shell holder plug and used it with power screw drivers, a drill press and various battery powered drill motors.
They work ok if you don't want any adjustment. I much prefer a Forster driven with a drill. It is just about as fast and is adjustable to leave the brass longer for a better chamber fit.

[Dan Cash]

I too use the Forster. It is extremely fast and as EDG points out, can be adjusted for over length chamber trimming. I trim lots of .30-30 cases for lever action rifle competition. Shooting cast bullets, I want the cases to exactly fit the chamber.

[country gent]

I had a gracey trimmer for 308, 243, and 223 when I was competeing in NRA High power. it was fast if I didnt have a couple hundred cases to trim It wasnt worth getting it out. It trimmed chamfered and deburred all in one pass. I also have a homemade drill press trimmer similar to the forester stand and cutter that works pretty quick. One thing that speed up trimming is to turn the cutter so case can be changed with out waiting for it to stop spinning. Ont the gracey case is inserted into caseholder turned 1/2 turn and done pull out and drop in finished bucket. The drill press trimmer the cutter pilot is in the spindle and trim let raise change case while cutter is still running.

[45-70 Chevroner]

Lee should have put a 1/4" chuck shank on all those cutters. I put one on the shell holder plug and used it with power screw drivers, a drill press and various battery powered drill motors.
They work ok if you don't want any adjustment. I much prefer a Forster driven with a drill. It is just about as fast and is adjustable to leave the brass longer for a better chamber fit.
I have three chucks and two of them have the 1/4" chuck and one is round, it was difficult to use the round one
I either had to chuck it up in a heavy drill or hold it in my hand. To use the 4 volt drill drive with the 1/4" chucked ones I rap a little duct tape around the chuck and the drill shank to keep it from pulling out each time I trim a case.

[45-70 Chevroner]

I too use the Forster. It is extremely fast and as EDG points out, can be adjusted for over length chamber trimming. I trim lots of .30-30 cases for lever action rifle competition. Shooting cast bullets, I want the cases to exactly fit the chamber.

I have several 30-30s and my son has one and three of my grand sons have 1 each so I find it much easier to trim to factory specs and I know those shells will fit all 30-30s, nothing wrong with custom trimming though. As for my self and my 30-30s I think boolit seating depth is ( one or two thousandths off the lands ) of most importance.

[robg]

Lee trimmer works for me ,use it in an electric drill .

[country gent]

I have used the Lee trimmers and if you want a special length set a new pin in the pilot and grind to length desired shorter is even easier since all you need to do is shorten the pin. They can be modified and changed. Depending on thickness a shim of desired aditional thickness could be fitted under pilot also. I use the drill press trimmer alot but you need a drill press with good accurate stop, most of the newer plastic stops have to much spring in them

[sunburn]

Forster in a table top drill press.

[Geezer in NH]

I have used the Lee trimmers and if you want a special length set a new pin in the pilot and grind to length desired shorter is even easier since all you need to do is shorten the pin. They can be modified and changed. Depending on thickness a shim of desired aditional thickness could be fitted under pilot also. I use the drill press trimmer alot but you need a drill press with good accurate stop, most of the newer plastic stops have to much spring in themWrong Lee trimmer

[drifterdon]

I use a Hornady trimmer and it goes pretty fast once the right length is set. But, it can sometimes take a bit to get to that right length.

[Old Scribe]

I trim with the Lee, as I usually don't have more than 100 or so. I'm retired so time is just a play thing.

[Lead Fred]

I prefer exact sizing to how many I can whip out.

I have used an L.E. Wilson case trimmer since JFK was pres.
I have 400 1972 Lake City match brass that are all the same size. .001+/- is acceptable.
My new arbor press will be here on monday, then I can do handgun cases

167728

[marlinman93]

I have Lyman, Forester, and Redding case trimmers, and prefer the Lyman out of the three. But mainly because of the universal shell holder, and how quick it is to put a case in it. The universal shell holder has a live ball that centers on the primer pocket, and then a handle that locks the rim with a 1/4 turn. I changed it to a 1/4" shaft, so I put my drill motor on and zip the excess metal off in seconds. Never timed it, but would guess if the cases don't need major trimming (like when I'm reforming .405 Win. to .40-70SS) I can do a case every 10 seconds, and probably spend a few more seconds cleaning the mouth.

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/720/720825.jpg

[dragon813gt]

60 cases would take me about 10-20 minutes. The FL sizing would take the most time. I have three Forsters. Two of them have three way cutters, 22 and 30 cal. They all have the drill attachment on them. I don't do it for speed as you can screw up cases it you don't pay attention when tightening the collet. The three way cutters make make it so the brass is ready to load after one pass. Well worth the money IMO.

[opos]

I've used the little cheapo Lee trimmers for a long time...I like to trim my brass (bottle neck rifle brass) about .008 to .010 shorter than the "trim length"...not too short...so that I can get lots of loads without trimming again for a while...I also neck size several calibers so never have issues with the brass growing..I find most of the lee "length gauges" are just a bit on the short size so they work well for me....I do check Lee's stuff with a good caliper when I get a new tool as there are some cases when the Lee stuff might be off just a hair. I've had a couple of the length gauges where I needed to just dress the tip to get the trim length I want...I put my electric drill in my bench vise and off we go...I also do the deburr and chamfer operation at the same time.

[KnotRight]

I use the WFT trimmers in an AC power drill. Put the drill into a bench vise and have a Harbor Freight foot switch. I can run about one case every 10 seconds. The only problem in doing a bunch of cases is that my fingers get tried holding the cases.

Got a RCBS prep station to clean up the brass but most of the times it does not need any cleaning up.

[Bmi48219]

I use a hornady Cam-Lock trimmer but only trim one small-caliber tapered cartridge. Bought it because of the quick case lock in & remove feature. Set up was easy, I used a micrometer to find a brass that was the correct length, set it in the shell holder w/o tension, pushed the shell holder shaft & brass up tight to the cutter head, lock the brass into the holder and set the shell holder shaft lock knob. It works ok BUT i think the shafts are not perfectly aligned. If I mike the case after trimming one side is 1.290" but miked at 360 degrees it can be 1.291". To get really consistent length while trimming I crank cutter handle several times (only need to trim about 20 cases at a time so didn't get drill adapter), loosen cam lock lever slightly so case can rotate with cutter, lock lever again, crank again and repeat process one more time. Then length is consistent 360 degrees.
This sounds like a lot of work but can be done faster than reading my how-to. Trimmer is new so I will be emailing Hornady to express my displeasure.

[drifterdon]

I found on the Hornady to get square you have to insert the pilot before locking down the cam.
I did 500 38 sp. cases yesterday. Trimming goes fast but deburring by hand goes very slow.

[jhalcott]

Many years ago I had to trim about 500 cases. I had a Lyman trimmer and one from RCBS, but they were both hand cranked models. I bought a Lee trimmer kit and took the whole bunch to work. I started to trim the cases and measured the first few to be certain of the length I was getting. Well about halfway thru the pile of cases I stopped for a coffee. I measured the last case I'd trimmed and it was about .020" short!?? I discovered that the tiny pin had actually "drilled" into the base quite a distance. I still have a couple of those cases in my collection. A call to Lee got me another base in a week or so. The shoot was well in the past by then. I got one of the welders to fill in that hole with stellite then a machinist in the tool room ground it flat for me. I have several bases and "pilots" for many calibers now. I found out that they do NOT make them for .204 and .17 caliber cases.

[Bmi48219]

I do insert the pilot all the way before locking the cam. Then trim, unlock cam - turn crank, cutter AND brass 1/3 turn, lock cam, trim, unlock turn another 1/3 rd turn lock & trim again. If the case is tilted off the centerline turning the case moves the longest edge to where the cutter can trim it. Only thing i can guess is the shell holder is not square to the centerline of the cutter shaft. There is a little wobble in the cutter shaft but if the cutter is crooked the longest cutting edge would still shave the brass all the way around the case.

[Bmi48219]

Just to update Hornady Cam Lock trimmer,
I talked to Hornady yesterday, the gentlemen suggested the problem was a result of over tightening the cam-lock lever. He said just snug lever to keep brass from spinning when trimming will give an even square cut. Going to find out next time I have some brass to trim.

[Char-Gar]

I have never timed my case trimming as the rate of speed is inconsequential to me. I have been using the same Wilson trimmer since 1960 and every case is the same length with no +-, none. Each case is the exact same length as the other will perfectly square case mouths.

I do not get the hurry, hurry put a motor on it school of reloading!

[dragon813gt]

Rushing and saving manual labor are two different things. I don't use a drill adapter to speed up the process. I use it so I don't have to manually crank the handle. People that rush end up screwing things up at some point.

[osteodoc08]

Trimming. My least favorite chore.

I guess it all depends.

If im making match or target ammo, I use my Forster.

If I'm making blasting ammo, I use the WFT for 223/308.

If I'm making regular hunting ammo, 300 BO, general trimming, I have an RCBS case prep center I use.

I don't recall ever trimming my pistol brass but there are virtues to doing so.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have tried just about every trimming method known from an RCBS Trim Lathe to setting up a collet closer with a dead length stop in a milling machine, to setting it up in a turret lathe.

The simplest and fastest method for mass runs of brass (100+) is also the least expensive and produces the most satisfactory end result.

It is the little Lee Three Jaw Chuck that fits into a drill motor along with wooden ball holder for the cutter and pilot.

I converted 500ea. 9MM Luger cases to 9x18 Makarov by removing .040 from the case mouths which took about 30 seconds each and ran out in about 3.5 hours done over several shorter sessions. I tried all of the above methods and this one worked the best. Since most of these cases will be fired and lost, I needed the easiest and most efficient way of converting them.

The little Chuck is a very cool little device as well and installing and removing a case from it only takes a second or so. Since the spindle of the chuck screws in from the back and clamps the case against the back side of the jaws it becomes a "Dead Length" arraignment that is necessary for consistent trim lengths.

I then deburred the inside and outside of the case mouth with a normal Chevron Style Deburring Cutter like we've all had since day one while the case was still in the chuck.

That is now how I trim all my cases.

Randy

[twc1964]

I bought a possum hollow case trimmer years ago and love it. I can fly through the .223 in large numbers and not be worn out. I think the company went out of business a while back though. It's a shame as they really workv well and built like a tank.

[lightman]

I trim my target ammo on a Wilson trimmer and I use the Lee trimmers with the case length gauge for straight wall cases. I use a Giraud on my high volume stuff like 223's for Prairie Dogs. I can trim 15 or 16 per minute at pretty much a sustained rate and they are within .001. It also deburrs both inside and out. I don't know how long it would take to both resize and trim them. I don't really get in a hurry, the Giraud is mostly to save the labor from doing 1000's of cases by hand.

Before this I've used both the Lyman trimmer and an RCBS collet style trimmer. With both I ran the pilot into the case mouth before tightening the case. The RCBS varied a little by how tight you tightened the collet I've had a few of the early Lee's that had soft metal in the case holder and would wear quickly.

[TNsailorman]

I like the C-H and Wilson trimmers and own both. They will trim as fast as I need to work. I also own a Lee complete set up for each and every caliber I load. One thing I like about using the Lee is I can use the shell holder chucked into the power drill that I have clamped in place, then I can trim to length, outside bevel, and inside bevel the necks by holding each of the three tools in my left hand; just switching them out on each case. Works fast and smooth for me.

[Geezer in NH]

For the Lee haters there is 2 different systems by Lee. Apples to cumquats IMHO

[shoot-n-lead]

I use the RCBS Trim Mate case prep center...it would probably take me about 20 minutes to do them. That would include uniforming primer pocket and deburring flash hole.

168661

[WFO2]

https://littlecrowgunworks.com/product/worlds-finest-trimmer-wft/?v=7516fd43adaa works for me chuck it up in a drill and go they are caliber specific. I use one for 308 and another 300AAC . 69 bucks Creedmore is where i got mine but I think Midway has them as well .

[45-70 Chevroner]

I have never timed my case trimming as the rate of speed is inconsequential to me. I have been using the same Wilson trimmer since 1960 and every case is the same length with no +-, none. Each case is the exact same length as the other will perfectly square case mouths.

I do not get the hurry, hurry put a motor on it school of reloading!

Hurry, hurry is not the purpose of the "motor, drill driver or drill" it is to make it easier to spin the case. I don't know how old you are but at my age ( 75 ) and arthritis in my hands and just about every where else it makes it much easier to use some sort of power to spin the cases. As I said in my original post, I don't want to turn this into a contest of speed.

[Jal5]

Not about speed for me so much as it is about the wear and tear on my hands and back depending if standing or sitting. I use the Lee trimmer and a Lyman lathe style machine powered with my drill. I may try that lathe style one in my table top drill press next time I do a run of 223. but I may have to try Randy's method with the 3 jaw chuck which would speed up converting 9mm to 9 mm Mak next time I do a bunch of those.

[Wayne Smith]

I have tried just about every trimming method known from an RCBS Trim Lathe to setting up a collet closer with a dead length stop in a milling machine, to setting it up in a turret lathe.

The simplest and fastest method for mass runs of brass (100+) is also the least expensive and produces the most satisfactory end result.

It is the little Lee Three Jaw Chuck that fits into a drill motor along with wooden ball holder for the cutter and pilot.

I converted 500ea. 9MM Luger cases to 9x18 Makarov by removing .040 from the case mouths which took about 30 seconds each and ran out in about 3.5 hours done over several shorter sessions. I tried all of the above methods and this one worked the best. Since most of these cases will be fired and lost, I needed the easiest and most efficient way of converting them.

The little Chuck is a very cool little device as well and installing and removing a case from it only takes a second or so. Since the spindle of the chuck screws in from the back and clamps the case against the back side of the jaws it becomes a "Dead Length" arraignment that is necessary for consistent trim lengths.

I then deburred the inside and outside of the case mouth with a normal Chevron Style Deburring Cutter like we've all had since day one while the case was still in the chuck.

That is now how I trim all my cases.

Randy

Randy, I do exactly the same thing. I use the Lee Makarov trim stem and have to run the 9mm cases into my Mak expand die to get the trim stem into the case.

[BrassMagnet]

I had a gracey trimmer for 308, 243, and 223 when I was competeing in NRA High power. it was fast if I didnt have a couple hundred cases to trim It wasnt worth getting it out. It trimmed chamfered and deburred all in one pass. I also have a homemade drill press trimmer similar to the forester stand and cutter that works pretty quick. One thing that speed up trimming is to turn the cutter so case can be changed with out waiting for it to stop spinning. Ont the gracey case is inserted into caseholder turned 1/2 turn and done pull out and drop in finished bucket. The drill press trimmer the cutter pilot is in the spindle and trim let raise change case while cutter is still running.


I can pick up the pace a lot. I have tried many methods.

I found the Lee trimmer when motorized changed length as the rod wore down. It didn't take very many when trimming 45-70.

Gracey worked well, but adjusting two blades to perfection in the wrong order (Chamfer blade first and then cutter blade!) was a pain with cheap blades. I tried to talk Doyle Gracey into higher quality bades, i.e. carbide. Doyle wasn't interested and I wasn't interested in trashing difficult to adjust blades in just a couple of hundred cases. I had carbide blades made in the little shop next door to Star Machine Works (Yeah, I'm Old!). They were much better, but still a pain to adjust.
Giraud makes upgrades for the Gracey. A motor to double the trimmer speed. Faster trim equals less chatter and longer blade life. Giraud also sells blades which fit the Gracey and are a dream to adjust quickly and correctly! Three sided carbide good for many thousands of trims.
Doyle Gracey passed many years ago. His family still runs the business. I found getting quality caliber adapters is difficult if not impossible. The 22 Hornet adapter scores my brass ar the base of the neck. So does the replacement, so I bought a Giraud.

The Giraud is great, but tricky to adjust. DON'T hold the adapter in place while tightening it as it will be off center Just tighten it and check. In a few tries it will be right for length and balanced inside and outside chamfer all around the case mouth if the case neck is straight.

Gracey and Giraud case trimmers headspace on the shoulder so they can not do straight wall cases. So I also have the DIllon Rapid Trim 1200 (RT-1200). The selection of RT-1200 dies available is rather limited. However, CH4D has an awesome selection and can make more. I have from CH4D 338 LM, 38-55, 375 Win, & 45-70.
If you use a multi-station STEEL press like one of the RCBS ones with a Lyman M-Die and the correct RT-1200 FL Size/Trim die you can size, trim, and even case form some calibers in a single pass through the press. They will still need to be chamfered.
Example on case forming: 30-06 to 8x57 or 25-06/270 to 7x57 wth the RT-1200 trimming off the extra 1/4" length in the time it takes to full length resize on a Rock Chucker. If you must de-prime use a Lee Universal decapping die in the first station and the M-die in the second. You also need a vacuum cleaner to suck the brass trimmings out of the RT-1200 die.
Using a RT-1200 for this VOIDS the warranty!

[W.R.Buchanan]

Randy, I do exactly the same thing. I use the Lee Makarov trim stem and have to run the 9mm cases into my Mak expand die to get the trim stem into the case.

Wayne: I turned the part of the Makarov Pilot that indexes on the inside of the case down to where it would fit into a 9mm case thus eliminating the expanding portion of the operation. It will happen when you run the cases thru the dies for loading anyway. You still have to Decap them first so you cut the Mak pilot down to where it fits inside a 9mm sized case. Then when you go to reload you start with the expander die then prime charge and seat boolit and then crimp.

When the numbers get past about 100 ea you really need to look at eliminating every possible operation that you can because you're not looking at just one operation,, You are looking at one operation times however many cases you have . In the case of 500 each, it would become 500 extra handlings.

Turning the shank down took 2 minutes and most of that was starting the machines up. It could have been done with an electric drill and bench grinder just as easily you only need to remove about .010 from that area. :mrgreen:.

Randy

[kayala]

Did anyone try CH4D Dillon trimming dies in pistol calibers ?

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