Black powder rifle

[Beartrap]

Hi, Beartrap here, i`m a new member and have a couple of questions, and will have more to follow i`m sure. A friend of mine told me to sign on to this site, recommended it very highly.
I have hunted with many rifles from 22 cal to the 45/70, but, i am getting a CVA Percussion Hawken Mountain Man black powder rifle, double set triggers, 54 cal, made in the 1980s. Have known this friend for a long time, it has never been fired, and he cannot find the manual or the box. He purchased it thinking he would enjoy a black powder rifle, things changed in his life and it sit in a safe until now. Wants only the shipping cost for it, i refused a couple of times because i am dumb as a rock about black powder arms, i have never held one, never seen one in the real, don` t know anyone that owns one.
So, what size ball do i purchase, what kind of powder and how much powder do i use. I watched a video on how to load on line, but did not mention powder or ball size. I understand there is a lube that must be used also????? I can hear you laughing now !!!!!!!! Mind you, i don`t know anything about this, and i don`t want to kill myself with this thing...
I will post a picture when the rifle arrives, i would appreciate any help on this, and thank you in advance......

Beartrap

[MT Chambers]

My .54 is a Lyman perc., I use a .54 cal. conical, the Lyman great plains bullet, lubed with bore butter, 80 grs. of Wano BP (real black powder).......I use it because some of the game I hunt is big and tough here in Kanada and it has more thump then a round ball and is accurate. Make sure you get some cleaning supplies including a good cleaning rod and accessories that fit the rod under the barrel as well. For cleanup I use Windex with vinegar and ballistol. Good luck and enjoy.

[Bstorey]

Go to deercreekproducts.com, they sell cva parts and have most all of the Cva manuals online for downloading.


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[Beartrap]

Thank you MT Chambers.

[Bstorey]

Go to deercreekproducts.com, they sell cva parts and have most all of the Cva manuals online for downloading.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Correction deercreekproducts.net not .com

[Beartrap]

Go to deercreekproducts.com, they sell cva parts and have most all of the Cva manuals online for downloading.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thank you very much..

[Beartrap]

My .54 is a Lyman perc., I use a .54 cal. conical, the Lyman great plains bullet, lubed with bore butter, 80 grs. of Wano BP (real black powder).......I use it because some of the game I hunt is big and tough here in Kanada and it has more thump then a round ball and is accurate. Make sure you get some cleaning supplies including a good cleaning rod and accessories that fit the rod under the barrel as well. For cleanup I use Windex with vinegar and ballistol. Good luck and enjoy.

Thanks, i just want to get familiar with it, no hunting yet, thought balls would cheaper???

[slim1836]

You don't say where you are located. I'll bet there is a member fairly close to you that may be able to safely walk you through the steps in order to make you more comfortable in the proper handling, loading, shooting, and care of your weapon.

It's not that hard, but starting out on the right track makes it easier. I wish I had a mentor when I started out.

Slim

[koehlerrk]

Slim makes a great point, Beartrap. Finding someone local that knows what they're doing will be a huge help. They'll be able to show you what items you need, what you don't, and how to use them. They can teach you how to load, shoot, and, most importantly with Ye Holy Black, how to clean up properly afterwards. It's nothing like cleaning a 30-06...

In my experience, the BP guys tend to be more relaxed and much more willing to help someone new to the sport than any other group of shooters. Some of the nicest folks you'll ever meet.

[Cheshire Dave]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has loading info. You will want to find out the twist rate of the rifle to see if Conical bullets will stabilize. Round Balls are cheaper and easy on the shoulder. My Thomson Center Renagade has a 1 in 48 and shoots RB's pretty good. A slower twist would be better.

[725]

Welcome aboard. You'll like it here. Owner's manual is a good idea. Other sources:

1- The Gun Digest Blackpowder Loading Manual by Sam Fadala, DBI Books 1995
2- Lyman Black Powder Handbook by C.K.Ramage, editor, Lyman Products 1975
3- The Complete Blackpowder Handbook by Sam Fadala, Krause Publications 2001
4- Black Powder Guide by Maj. G. Nonte, Stoeger Publication 1969

Good luck, 725

[WRideout]

I am also new to black powder, but have been casting and rolling my own ammo for a long time. When I bought a CVA Buckhorn a while ago the learning curve was rather steep, but short. If you are casting your own, Lee makes a decent mold for not a lot of money. You could start with the round ball, and add a conical if you like. Round ball should be about 10 thousandths smaller than bore diam. to allow for a greased cloth patch. The first time I tried to cut my own patches, the cloth was too thick, and the round balls were a bear to pound in. I acquired some cotton/linen cloth from the craft and sewing store (it does pay to go with my wife sometimes) that was a lot thinner, and worked better.

My kids got me a duplex Lee mold that casts both a conical REAL boolet, and a round ball. Now that I have shot a few of the conicals, I do like them a lot better. To each his own. For cloth patches, it seems you could use almost anything greasy or oily, but for the conicals, I pan lube them (see directions elsewhere on this site) and use a homemade mixture of waxes and oils.

If you don't have one, a short starter rod makes life a lot easier to get the projectile started. I made one with a piece of dowel rod fitted into a drilled hole in a big wood ball (also from craft store). I used an empty 45 ACP case on the end of the dowel. Hope this helps.

Wayne

[.36navy]

There are 4 grades/ Grain sizes of Blackpowder. The more f's the finer the powder and less air there is in between the grains.
FFFFG (used for priming flintlocks) FFFG ( used in pistols and small bore rifles) FFg ( for rifles/ Shotguns)
and FG ( mainly used for cannon). you need FFG powder or RS Pyrodex. Due to its explosiveness real blackpowder can be hard to find in a local shop but most sporting goods shops carry RS pyrodex.

I would buy a box of .53 balls to start out with 100 rounds is a lot to start out with and if you really like it buy a mold.

you can buy lube or I just use spit. In my opinion it works just as good.

Powder fouling will build up after every shot making it harder and harder to seat the ball. you will need to run a wet patch down the bore to help clean out the powder residue after every 2nd or third shot (some guys do every shot) Check out duelist1954 on youtube he has some great muzzleloading videos.

[country gent]

Lyman has a black powder loading book out also. Pillow ticking or flannel patches work well and a simple lube for them is crisco shortening, If you want it slightly thinner melt it and add a little canola oil then let cool. A moderate charge of 2f black powder to start with. I perfer RWs caps but have also used cci in a bind. CAps should fit nipple snug but be seated with a firm thumb finger push. On this bore you might give 1 1/2F a try also. When seating the patched round ball try to do it as consistantly as possible with the same force each time. For plinking target work a range rod is easier to use than the ram rod. Most seaters are also set up as a patch jag and wiping between shots isnt a big thing on the range, It helps control fouling build up and also helps to make sure there arnt any Hots left in the barrel. A 54 cal with full power loads may get uncomfortable shooting on the range any length of time. Buy a adjustable measure to start with. Find a light lload thats accurate and fun to shoot first then find a full power load for hunting the assorted buffalo and dinosors out there LOL. You can experiment with patch thickness, ball dia, patch materials, powder grades and makes. Wano, Swiss, Olde Ensford, goex, Graffs. Also with patch lubes. SOme lubes do better keeping fouling soft than others. When cleaning Hot dish soap water to start with is your friend it cuts the BP fouling and flushes it out. A piece of rubber tubeing that fits snug on the nipple in a bucket of hot soap water and a pached jag and you can suck water up thru the nipple and barrel flushing it back into the bucket. work this then brush good and fresh hot water and work again. Barrel should feel good and warm let dry and lightly oil bore and outside down.

[Cowboy_Dan]

Rule of thumb for round balls is start by loading a caliber of powder and work up to twice a caliber. In your case start at 54 gr of FFG and work up to 108 gr. The best load will be somewhere in the middle most likely. Of course you can keep working the charge down until the ball doesn't leave the barrel if you want to find an accurate light load for plinking.

Only way to blow up a front stuffer using black powder or substitute is to not fully seat the ball. If there is any air space it turns the barrel into a pipe bomb.

[Smoke4320]

many BP shooters will mark their ramrod so they know when bullet is fully seated on powder ..
I have always taken a sharp knife and made a cut around rod sticking out of the barrel . Mark is there permanently (no losing tape , paint ect)
of course you have to find your accurate load first

[Beartrap]

You don't say where you are located. I'll bet there is a member fairly close to you that may be able to safely walk you through the steps in order to make you more comfortable in the proper handling, loading, shooting, and care of your weapon.

It's not that hard, but starting out on the right track makes it easier. I wish I had a mentor when I started out.

Slim

I am in Lake Placid FL, would love to work hands on with someone, thanks.

[Mk42gunner]

loading and shooting percussion muzzleloaders isn't all that hard, but there are a few things to remember-- Powder goes in first, then the patch and ball. Cap after loading.

Make sure you have a nipple wrench for when you forget to load the powder first, and you will at least once.

There are two types of muzzle loader shooters, those who have dryballed (loading without powder), and those that will.

There are a lot of tips and tricks in the muzzle loading section.

Robert

[sharps4590]

I would start with round balls at .530 and a patch thickness of around .015. That should get you in the ball park quickly. I like a patch of .020 but my rifles take it and like it, some might not. Powder charge pretty much as has been stated. I use 60 grs. for light loads and 100 for hunting. It is probable they will shoot to a different POI. For shooting at a range spit patch is fine but I do prefer a grease type lube for hunting. Spit will dry out over time and the possibility of rust is often mentioned but I don't know that it is actually much of an issue. Frankly I think it's more hyperbole than fact when shooting at a range where the load isn't in the barrel very long.

Cleaning will possibly be your biggest issue. There is as many ways to clean muzzleloaders as there is MZ shooters. Some methods will depend on your climate. Where you are humidity will be an issue so it needs to be clean and protected when you store it. I still use boiling water and have for 40 years. It's pretty humid in Missouri and I've never had any rust difficulties.

I would urge caution. While not 100% confirmed there is considerable evidence that even the accidental inhaling of black powder fumes is addictive. Causing one to pursue old muzzleloaders and black powder cartridge rifles to the detriment of their bank account and sanity.....:lol:

[Smoke4320]

"I would urge caution. While not 100% confirmed there is considerable evidence that even the accidental inhaling of black powder fumes is addictive. Causing one to pursue old muzzleloaders and black powder cartridge rifles to the detriment of their bank account and sanity.....:lol: "

my first deer kill was with BP.. to this day the smell brings back fond memories 39 years later

[Beartrap]

loading and shooting percussion muzzleloaders isn't all that hard, but there are a few things to remember-- Powder goes in first, then the patch and ball. Cap after loading.

Make sure you have a nipple wrench for when you forget to load the powder first, and you will at least once.

There are two types of muzzle loader shooters, those who have dryballed (loading without powder), and those that will.

There are a lot of tips and tricks in the muzzle loading section.

Robert


Thanks.

[Beartrap]

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook has loading info. You will want to find out the twist rate of the rifle to see if Conical bullets will stabilize. Round Balls are cheaper and easy on the shoulder. My Thomson Center Renagade has a 1 in 48 and shoots RB's pretty good. A slower twist would be better.

From the information i have found about this rifle, it is 1 in 48.

[Beartrap]

I would start with round balls at .530 and a patch thickness of around .015. That should get you in the ball park quickly. I like a patch of .020 but my rifles take it and like it, some might not. Powder charge pretty much as has been stated. I use 60 grs. for light loads and 100 for hunting. It is probable they will shoot to a different POI. For shooting at a range spit patch is fine but I do prefer a grease type lube for hunting. Spit will dry out over time and the possibility of rust is often mentioned but I don't know that it is actually much of an issue. Frankly I think it's more hyperbole than fact when shooting at a range where the load isn't in the barrel very long.

Cleaning will possibly be your biggest issue. There is as many ways to clean muzzleloaders as there is MZ shooters. Some methods will depend on your climate. Where you are humidity will be an issue so it needs to be clean and protected when you store it. I still use boiling water and have for 40 years. It's pretty humid in Missouri and I've never had any rust difficulties.

I would urge caution. While not 100% confirmed there is considerable evidence that even the accidental inhaling of black powder fumes is addictive. Causing one to pursue old muzzleloaders and black powder cartridge rifles to the detriment of their bank account and sanity.....:lol:

Thanks, and i understand addiction completely for firearms !!!!!!!!!

[Toymaker]

http://blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/ First, I hope Dutch is still kicking around - visit that site and seriously consider getting his information.
I started with a CVA Hawken Hunter in 54 caliber and tuned that puppy until I moved from 16th place in a 15 person competition to the top 5. It shot well for 3 boys and I still have it. It started with 65 grains Goex FFg, a .530 round ball and .02 inch OD green canvas patch lubed 7:1 with Dutch's method. After a year accuracy went down hill and I changed to a .535 ball and .015 pillow ticking patch still with the 7:1 lube.
With CVA you're going to get a good rifle or a lemon; there doesn't seem to be an in-between. I like Dutch's method because it works and because you spend a lot of time on the range which means you learn your rifle, the process and the procedures. All too often that's what's missing.
Good shooting. Keep your powder dry.

[Mk42gunner]

One important thing I forgot to mention-- when ramming the ball home, do not grab the end of the ramrod and try to seat it in one big push. Much better to grip it 4-6 inches above the barrel and use a series of short smooth pushes.

Lots less chance of the ramrod breaking and going through your hand. I've heard that can ruin your day.

Robert

[rfd]

whilst this forum is specifically for black powder cartridge rifles (here's a link to the Muzzleloading Forum (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?16-Muzzleloading)), you've gotten some good scoop.

this article may be of further assistance .... About Traditional Muzzleloaders



(http://traditionalmuzzleloadingassociation.org/tradml/index.html)

[Pardini]

Patch and ball size is a bit of trial and error. Buy different patch thicknesses and see what works best. I've found tight is better than loose. You'll come across a million recipes for lubes and cleaners they all seem to work fairly well.

Absolutely Mark your ramrod so you tell what's in the breech. Ball and no powder, powder and two balls etc will all change the height of the load in the bore which you can compare to the height of your correct load marked on your rod.

One thing that can happen if the nipple is plugged when seating the ball-the pressure trapped under ball will push it back up off the powder and almost always bulge the barrel. Not real common but happens. You can feel it when it happens if your paying attention.

[Beartrap]

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions, i appreciate all of them, also printed them all so i can refer back to my notes in case i`m not sure of something on the firing line, not a good place to mess up.

Thanks Again,

Beartrap

[slumlord44]

The Mountain Rifle is the most accurate CVA and the most desirable. Haven't got around to shooting my .54 Mountain Rifle yet but use 90 grains of FF Triple 7 pyrodex and a round ball in my CVA Hawkin for deer. Deadly and accurate out to 100 yards but most of my shots are 20-50 yards. Yours is at least a $300-400 gun as described. You owe your friend a favor. Good advice here.

[trails4u]

I would urge caution. While not 100% confirmed there is considerable evidence that even the accidental inhaling of black powder fumes is addictive. Causing one to pursue old muzzleloaders and black powder cartridge rifles to the detriment of their bank account and sanity.....:lol:

This. ^^^^^^^^^^^^