30 40 kraig?

[dmdracer]

My wife went to a garage sale today and picked up a ruger 10-22 with a 4x32 scope for $150.00. thought that was a fair buy.
The guy has a 30-40 kraig, said it has been modified and it would be worth $1000.00 or so had not the modification been done, according to him the wood under the barrell has been shortened, I'd say the handgrip ends about 10" or so back from the muzzle.
He had a pic that should the wood going almost to the end of the muzzle, I'm not familar with this rifle, so help me out....is it worth $100.00 ?
I did a search and a post came up http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=1790&highlight=30-40

[dmdracer]

It looks alot like the one in this post but no peep sight.
I also opened the bolt and looks like it has been welded or sodered (sp?) on the left side in back of the chamber where the bore begins, about 1/2 " in length...hope that makes sense.
He says he had it to a gunsmith and it checks out fine to shoot etc.
What you all think...should I run back and buy it?
thanks
Dave
found this pic online, trying to attach it here, it looks like this pic if it works
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=485&stc=1
03247143719f99f0a8943ff0feae7402.jpg

[Scrounger]

Forget the wood, if the metal is in VG condition and the barrel's OK, it's worth $100.

[Bent Ramrod]

DMDracer,

I'm kind of bothered about that "soldered or welded back of the chamber" thing. You ought to have your own gunsmith look at that.

Otherwise, it sounds like a slightly sporterized Krag, well worth $100 if bore and mechanicals are good.

[StarMetal]

Anything, anything, anything done to the chamber such as you described ruined the barrel. The gun isn't worth the $100 dollars for the metal. I know a place selling Krag actions for $50. The only thing that can be done to a chamber is ream it out to an improved and this I wouldn't advise on a weak Krag action. Sounds like something bad is wrong with that chamber.

Joe

[Buckshot]

...........I'm not understanding. Something has been done TO the chamber? The owner said his gunsmith gave it a clean bill of health? Huh?

If it actually hasn't been monkeyed with mechanicly you can buy a piece of completion wood from Gunstocks.com or a whole new stock from Boyds. If it turns out there isn't anything wrong with it, I'd buy it in a heatbeat.

............Buckshot

[dmdracer]

Well I bought it for $75.00, I know nothing about this rifle.
I looked at it when I got home, other than being extremly dirty and some surface rust it does not look too bad, nothing else I'll take it to the fun show next week with a for sale sign.
I took the screw off the left side plate and pulled off the plate, the "weld" I spoke of is on the front of the plate, not sure why it's been welded but it is not in the chamber.
Going to church in a few but I'll try to post some pics later today and perhaps you can tell me more on what I have.
like I say I know nothing about these Krags...see I even spelled it wrong in my original post, I'm learning some :wink:
thanks

[StarMetal]

All that plate is one thing an access to machine an area of the action and two it's part of the feed system. When you load a Krag the follower pushes the cartridge over and up around that plate area. The Krag kind of feeds from the left. I just wonder if the plate was welded to help feed a particular bullet style that wasn't feeding right or if it was just cracked. Honestly can't see how it would have gotten cracked as there's not alot of pressure or strain on it.

Joe

[dmdracer]

If I did all things right, 4 pics attached.
You can see the weld on the side plate, I did run some soft scotch brite on it to clean it up a bit. I'll clean the rest over the next few days.
The metal is kinda rough and rust pitted, I think someone has tried to do something with the stock....I do not see the circle p or any other markings and there are no sights front or rear.
would you clean and reblue the barrel or paint the metal flat black? same with stock...refinsh? I dought I could ruin the value since it's not orignal anyway.

So what do you all think?
thanks
Dave

[45nut]

That sideplate should be available,now the sights may be another story,good pics.
certainly worth what you paid for it. I have gotten a lot less for more money,like gas in my tank lately.

[dmdracer]

I see it's hard to see the butt, but there is a small "trap door" there and the barrel measures from muzzle to receiver around 22.250".
I'm trying to figure out what it was when born and what some one changed or was trying to make out of it.
What is a "shutoff", the flip on the left side?
Any websites that might have all the info I need to know on these rifles or some basics ? Kinda like the thing, may be a fun project this winter !

[Scrounger]

Here is one:
http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/krag/krag.pl
I'm sure there are many others.

[StarMetal]

That little lever at the left rear of the receiver is a magazine cutoff. Back in "those" days they wanted to hold the full magazine in reserve and fire single shot at the enemy when at a distance, then flip the lever to magazine feed when the enemy was much closer. The U.S. even carried this over to the 1903 Springfield and the lever also served as the removal lever for taking the bolt out of the gun on the 1903. On the Krag to get the bolt out you pull it all the way to the rear, then you take a tool like a small flat blade screwdriver and put it under the extractor towards the nose of the bolt, lift it up just a tad while trying to turn the bolt handle up ever further and it will go at the same time popping the extractor loose, then you pull the bolt out of the receiver. To put it back in you insert the bolt and kinda of guide that flat bar of the extractor down into the slot of the receiver wall there and turn the bolt handle down and it will all pop in. Sounds complicated, but once you've done it, it's pretty simple.

I don't know about finding many Krag receiver parts as they are pretty scarce. Looks like someone welded on that sideplate to aid feeding which I don't understand as the krag is one of the smoothess feeding action ever made. Check the single lug out on the bolt and make sure it isn't cracked and then check the headspace with empty resized case, or gauge if you happen to have a friend that has one. If both those check out you have a fine rifle to shoot. Krags shoot cast bullets great. I haven't seen a Krag, well all long as the rifling wasn't shot out, that didn't shoot really good. They are great rifles.

More then likely your rifle was a full length rifle and someone cut it down to carbine length, which Springfield did make and they are even more rare. The trapdoor in the buttstock is for an oiler and cleaning kit.

So clean it up, check out what I told you and have fun shooting it. Don't sell it as you have one of the coolest rifles ever made in history and great shooters. The 30-40 is also a very adequate hunting cartridge for all North American game.

Joe

[StarMetal]

By the way Numrich or Gun Parts Inc, in N.J. has the sideplate for $16 and some cents plus shipping.

Where you live?

Joe

[krag35]

I see it's hard to see the butt, but there is a small "trap door" there and the barrel measures from muzzle to receiver around 22.250".
I'm trying to figure out what it was when born and what some one changed or was trying to make out of it.
What is a "shutoff", the flip on the left side?
Any websites that might have all the info I need to know on these rifles or some basics ? Kinda like the thing, may be a fun project this winter !

Just above that plate you removed, should be a date "Model 18??"

You shold get rid of that Krag as soon as possible, they are addictive, run while yu still have a chance :-)

I have found that most original bbls tend to run large. I size no smaller than .310, and .312 usually works better. they also tend to have a long throat, so seat as long as you can. I have found Lyman's 311284 to be the best bullet overall.

krag35

[Char-Gar]

No don't reblue it..just clean it up and shoot it. You will need a front sight. Itfthe barrel is cut to 22" a Springfield 03 band will fit. You have to heat it up with a torch a mite to expand it, drive it on, straighted it up and then rough out a trough through the pin hole and pin it.

Military rear sights are not hard to come by. There are always some on Ebay. They are attatched via two screws on top of the barrel. I have one and the screws that you could have pretty cheap. It has been reblued and therefore not good for restoring a military rifle to original. It is the one with the flip up peep.

There are several types of peep sights that can been fitted without drilling and taping. I have a number of Krag peep sights and I have an old Pacific that you could purchase fairly cheap. It replaces the magazine cut off.

As you can tell..I like these old Krags.

[StarMetal]

Most the Krags I 've seen have a .309 bore. I have one and I believe Charger's even runs about that. The 311284 is a great bullet out of my Krag. The 314299 shoots good also. When I had a better eye for the sights I could get some 1 inch groups at 100 yards with the Krag's issue sights. Great rifle.

Joe

[RayinNH]

dmdracer, congrats on the Krag. They are definately addictive.
armscollectors.com/srs.htm (http://armscollectors.com/srs.htm)
will answer some of your questions for you. On the left of the screen under Specialties: U.S. military arms will show Starmetals' explanation of the bolt removal in pictures. On the right of the screen (turquoise section) scroll down to the serial # section and look up your number for more info about its life.
kragcollectorsassociation.org/ (http://kragcollectorsassociation.org/)
has a good photo collection and a good forum...Ray

[floodgate]

dmd, Joe:

"On the Krag to get the bolt out you pull it all the way to the rear, then you take a tool like a small flat blade screwdriver and put it under the extractor towards the nose of the bolt, lift it up just a tad while trying to turn the bolt handle up ever further and it will go at the same time popping the extractor loose, then you pull the bolt out of the receiver."

You can actually lift up the extractor with the left fingertip while drawing back the bolt with your right hand. Take just a "flip" to do it; learned it as a teen-ager from a friend whose Dad had one from the Span-Am War. Saved me about $25 one time 'way back when I went into "Trader Chapelle's" gunshop in the Mother Lode and pulled the bolt on a '98 Krag to check the (perfect) barrel. "Geez, kid; I didn't know anyone knew that stunt anymore!" He knocked that off the price, and gave me the matching bayonet & scabbard to boot. I sold the rifle (*sob*), but I know where it is, and I'm gonna work on him.

floodgate

[Buckshot]

http://www.fototime.com/93A0FC305FC889C/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/D0D7166B1E9D8B1/standard.jpg

The above are photos of my Krag. I have a new Boyd's stock and handguard for it. I just have to find the time to start. BTW, the Boyds stock is very nicely done. I haven't laid the barreled action into it yet, but first appearances show a sharply inletted piece of wood.

The rear sight is one of the old Redfield no D&T types.

...............Buckshot

..............Buckshot

[dmdracer]

Thanks guys, great info. the more I look at it the more it grows on me, too late to walk away, I'm easy addicted :-D
I'm not sure what to do for sights, with these old eyes, I'm leaning toward some type of scope but have no idea how to mount the rings etc.
The web sites mentioned has lots of info so it will take awhile to digest and browse.

For now, I'll work on getting it cleaned up, that should take awhile, and search the sites you guys offered.
Buckshot, nice looking, thanks. Charger, I'll keep your offer on the peeps in mind, the 2 screws are filled in ?? Joe, I'm in Indy. need to find smith to check headspace.
I'll keep you all informed
Dave

[StarMetal]

floodgate,

You aren't going to do that stunt on my Krag, you may on others, but my extractor is pretty strong...I've tried that.

Joe

[KCSO]

I have some spare parts for a Krag including a 1898 rear sight.

[Bret4207]

So Joe, just where is this place you can get Krag actions for $50.00?

[StarMetal]

Tpr Bret,

I was cruising the gunsites a week ago and I believe it was Sarco Inc. They were actually $49.50 if I remember correctly. I haven't seen Krag actions for sale for quite some while. I'll bet you they are totally stripped too, they didn't say on the website.

Joe

[Scrounger]

As a general rule, 'action' means all the action parts are there; if there is a part, like a bolt or exteactor missing, it is so noted. If it is an 'action' with all the parts removed, it is generally listed as a 'receiver'. Naturally, everybody doesn't do it the same way....

[StarMetal]

Tpr Bret,

I'll help you out here as it's kind of hard to find on their website, go here:
http://www.sarcoinc.com/rifles-receivers1.html

At the middle of the page.

Joe

[StarMetal]

Art,

I meant to say receiver.

Joe

[Scrounger]

If your receiver looks bad or, Heaven forbid, is cracked, one of these receivers would come in real handy. I see they have other receivers also. One of those Argentine 1935 receivers would be a good one to build up a rifle on. They didn't mention it, but I assume a license is required to purchase since the serial number is usually located on the receiver. Wonder if a C&R would work with them???

[StarMetal]

Art,

I've been wondering about C&R, some places say they are only good for complete firearms, some say you can buy parts that are for C&R firearms, some even say you can't use a C&R to buy a C&R firearm that had been changed from original such as new modern barrel, sporterized, etc. Who knows the real truth? To me doesn't make sense you can buy the whole C&R eligible firearm but not a receiver.

Joe

[Scrounger]

Everyone who reads that law (and all laws) interprets it the way he wants to. Even the agents will give you different answers. It all depends on how bad he wants to sell things, modified by his past experience with authority. Same is true of FFL. I have talked to dealers who claimed if they took the gun apart and shipped it in more than one box, it was legal and didn't have to go to an FFL Heck, even I know better than that.

[dmdracer]

While cleaning the barrel, I decided to slug the bore....I picked up a 38 cb by mistake and start to put it in the muzzle and realized what I was doing however it just fell right thru.
I measured with some calipers and it comes out to .401"
Ouch! wife says to mount it above the fireplace.
Any ideas, like replacement barrel or can it be "sleeved"?
thanks
Dave

[StarMetal]

Dave,

It would be hard to imagine that a barrel that is suppose to be .308 (although some found alot fatter then that, as mine measures .309) would be .401. Have you cleaned it out with a good fitting brass bore brush and then looked to see if there is any rifling? If you take a modern .308 with cut rifling the bore is .300 and the rifling is .004 thus when you measure the groove diameter you get .308 ( the total of the bore .300 and two groove depths of .004, which is .008, thus added to the bore .308). Even if that rifle had a very fat bore say .316 plus .008 for two grooves depths, that will still only give you .324. I'm beginning to wonder if it was rebarreled to something else, so other caliber. Do the barrel cleaning and get back with us on what the rifling looks like and run another bigger slug through it and tell us what it mikes out at and if it has prominant grooves on it.

Joe

[dmdracer]

Joe, I did clean the barrel with kroil and also butchs bore, it is shiney. looks like the first 1.500" has been ?? bored or rough honed?? not sure how to describe it, I do see some rifleing twist past that area. I tried to take a pic but not very good.
Are replacements or rebarreled even feasable and where do I look?
Fireplace might be the only choice or sell for parts...

??
Dave

[StarMetal]

You'd have to have a gunsmith put a barrel on it. Don't think there are many Krag barrels floating around. Like I stated before it's hard to believe if it was the original Krag barrel that there is rifling in it and you slugged it at .401

Joe

[Jumptrap]

What the hell is a Kraig/Craig?.........HAR!

Now, I'm sorta hooked on phonics and while it's bad enough the name is butchered into Krag.......as in, "he fell amongst a rocky crag and broke his lag...I mean leg:)"

I'll bet Olaf pronounced his last name as Kraag....with short A sound. I don't think the Norwegians use a long A in thier vowels....could be mistaken, but don't think so. You ever hear of O-layf Krayg? Didn't think so, me either. Every guy I ran into from Michigan called the rifles Kraigs...they also rode Ska-doo's in the winter.

[Bret4207]

If the muzzle end has the bored out section, chances are the muzzle was worn oblong and some one bored it back to restore the muzzle end. If the rest of the barrel shows good rifling and the bore slugs anywhere from 308-312 I'd shoot it a bit to see how it does. You may be surprised.

[StarMetal]

That makes sense what Tpr Bret said. You didn't say which end that non rifled end was at. If it is at the muzzle go ahead and slug the rifled portion.

Joe