Hot can of powder

[idahoron]

Back in February I put together a new set of sights for my son's inline. We both have matching Knight MK85 stainless guns. I got them for a hunt we have here in Idaho that allows scopes. I used mine once and didn't like the scope. I ended up putting Williams FP sights on both of them. The problem is I hated the front sight from Knight. So I added a Lyman AHB front sight and Lee Shavers inserts.
Then Because the front sight was taller I added a shim under the rear sight. I measured the difference and made the shim to put the first line on the sight as my 50 yard mark. Adding this height on the rear sight changed the way the gun fit my face. I had to raise my head and that took my cheek off the stock. I have worked with this on my Hot Rods when I shoot 300 + yards. But my cheek was off at 50. So I added a cheek pad to finish the project.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Muzzleloaders/Knight%20MK85/Cheek%201_zpsvq5o3mup.jpg

The first time I took it out it shot well. But I ran out of powder and changed cans. All of a sudden my sight marks were off like the powder was a hot can. So I decided to quit and I also made up my mind to get my Chronograph out on the next trip.
Well Today was the day. The Ohler 35 was going to prove something. I had a small sample of the old powder this can has been open for about 1 year. I had the "hot can" and it has been open since this Feb, and I had a new unopened can.
Hot can shot #1- 1315
#2- 1320
#3- 1345
Old Can from last year.
#1- 1319
#2- 1350
#3- 1310
New can opened today
#1- 1294
#2- 1313
#3- 1324
Last test was two shots with the same powder charge and Lube on the paper.
#1- 1365
#2- 1352

I am not sure what happened with my shooting that day but it is clear that the powder was not an issue. If anything I was impressed with the Pyrodex P and how consistent it was. But with anything I got MORE questions!!!
When I first chronographed that load it was in my Hot Rod Renegade. At that time it averaged 1310 with a 28" barrel. My knight has a 24" barrel but the velocity is basically the same maybe a little faster but not much. After seeing the results I wish I would have taken my Hot Rod to chronograph it at the same time to see if it was still at 1310. It would be interesting if the optimal burn was more like 24" and the extra barrel length was actually reducing velocity. All I know is the Hot Rod is a FAR better shooting gun even with the upgrades to the knight. Maybe the extra barrel length helps with accuracy??? All I know is I wish I had the Hot Rod to compare at the same time. The last time I had shot it across the chronograph was several years ago. I guess I have another test.

[johnson1942]

off all the powders ive used, pyrodex is the most affected by compression. it is a very very spongy powder and can shoot very well if it isnt compressed at all. ive found to make it shoot best just setting the bullet on the powder is best with the same pressure every time. i think some times a longer barrel is best because the powder burns up and the ft per second may go down a little but every ft per second is just like the last. some how the pressures even out better for me in a longer barrel. i to am working on a inline that i gave to my son but he gave back to me. im going to sight it in with a 50 cal pp bullet that weighs 485 grains. it is too light in weight for me so soon im going to put 2 dead mules just in front of the forstock and in line with each other and under the barrel. they will add more weight and calm the recoil down a lot. i have high hopes for this project as being a good hunting gun and also a long range shooter for fun. ive not gave up on side locks as they are my main type of muzzleloader but this is fun to work on and to get the best out of. ron, your gun is nice looking and im sure you will get what you want out of it. thanks for the post.

[bigted]

What is (if any) the differences in twist rates?

My initial thoughts are that if the twist is a bit faster in the new inline then just maybe the burn is throwing the boolits with a more efficient burn with the more resistance of a faster twist to overcome ... Would act like shooting a heavier boolits to act as more resistance and enable the powder to more fully burn.

Just thoughts from the peanut gallery.

[Sharpsman]

Here's a simple solution:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1528/26530585232_0f5b65df1e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GqqbFj)Flintrifle (https://flic.kr/p/GqqbFj) by Rick Mulhern (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1629/26639777842_186cda040f.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GA4PQw)BCGSgoex (https://flic.kr/p/GA4PQw) by Rick Mulhern (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/), on Flickr

[Quickdraw4u]

Absolutely beautiful rifle!

[Sharpsman]

Accurate...as well!!

[idahoron]

Here's a simple solution:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1528/26530585232_0f5b65df1e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GqqbFj)Flintrifle (https://flic.kr/p/GqqbFj) by Rick Mulhern (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1629/26639777842_186cda040f.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GA4PQw)BCGSgoex (https://flic.kr/p/GA4PQw) by Rick Mulhern (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/), on Flickr


I fail to see that as a solution to anything but a empty mantel.

[idahoron]

What is (if any) the differences in twist rates?

My initial thoughts are that if the twist is a bit faster in the new inline then just maybe the burn is throwing the boolits with a more efficient burn with the more resistance of a faster twist to overcome ... Would act like shooting a heavier boolits to act as more resistance and enable the powder to more fully burn.

Just thoughts from the peanut gallery.

Same rate of twist same maker of the barrel.

[Sharpsman]

"I fail to see that as a solution to anything but a empty mantel."

Figures!!

[bigted]

may have missed something Ron ... your saying that your barrel on the Renegade is made by the same company as the barrel on the Knight?

i only offer this thought as a possibility of speed difference.

[bigted]

Here's a simple solution:

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1528/26530585232_0f5b65df1e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GqqbFj)Flintrifle (https://flic.kr/p/GqqbFj) by Rick Mulhern (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/), on Flickr

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1629/26639777842_186cda040f.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GA4PQw)BCGSgoex (https://flic.kr/p/GA4PQw) by Rick Mulhern (https://www.flickr.com/photos/61286670@N08/), on Flickr

Rick ... that is generally a nice rifle and deserves a thread of its own if none exist. i for one would read with relish {no not that kinda relish}. i do love the traditional weapons.

[Fly]

Man I love that rifle also. I only shoot the old guys. If I had to shoot the new ones, I would give up black powder
all together.
Fly

[idahoron]

may have missed something Ron ... your saying that your barrel on the Renegade is made by the same company as the barrel on the Knight?

i only offer this thought as a possibility of speed difference.

Green Mountain makes the barrels for Knight.
But really there is not a speed difference. For some reason last Feb the gun went to shooting a bit high. I decided to chronograph the powder to see if there was a hot can. The speed was very close in my opinion on each of the three cans. The odd thing is the speed is almost the same as the speed out of the renegade with the longer barrel. That is the odd part. I would have expected it to be somewhat lower do to the shorter barre. I would have like to have tested the Renegade to compare. Maybe the shorter barrel is the max on powder burn.

[idahoron]

"I fail to see that as a solution to anything but a empty mantel."

Figures!!

Can you accurately hit targets out to 300 yards with it? If not, it is no solution except the empty mantel. I have no use for a noise maker flinch lock.

[johnson1942]

ron, its too bad you get flack for being inovative. the thing is these guys who snide you with remarks , most could hunt in your rugged country or hit the bull in the *** at the distances you drop your critters. they couldnt keep up with you in that country and would probably have to be airlifted out once they got in their. your guns load from the front and have to drop something with one shot or they are hard to track and get lost. the same here, i would like to see how these nasayers would do pulling the buck out of a deep canyon like my young son and i did. nothing is close out here. our leader at our local muzzle loader club said it right when he said, in the woods where most of these guys hunt you could put the bullet in backwards and still get your deer. volks wagon size groups are good enough in the woods. i may be stretching it a bit but they dont hunt like you and it. when kroger was here last dec he set his gun for longer range and thats why he got his nice buck at 135 yards. some nice ones we tried for was over 200 yards. thanks for all your post ron, keep them coming. your the real deal, and dont have to prove it to anyone.

[mazo kid]

We really shouldn't be making comments about physical abilities when we don't know anything about them. Can I hunt in mountainous country any more? No, but I am 80 years old. Do I need a muzzleloader that will shoot to 300 yards? Again, no, as most shots here are under 100 yards. But, my traditional rifles will shoot to that distance, not with the same velocity though. I only have traditional muzzle loaders, but I understand those who use the modern in-lines. There is room for everyone in this sport and I feel we should be more tolerant about the traditional/in-line shooting issue. I shoot my traditional rifles in both the rifle and muzzle loader seasons for deer.

[Edward]

They both do the job, just not the same job and both look great doing it :Fire:

[Fly]

I,m not knocking anyone. Ron helped me with my GPH, & I,m the one that first named
his rifle Hot Rod Renegade. I loved seeing Ron develop side shooting traditional muzzle loaders.
As far as inlines I don't see much difference in them, & modern rifles, except propellant. But
that's just me.

Everyone is free to there option. I have a slew of military WW2 weapons also. I care less about
plastic black gun. But each to there own. I guess because I like living the past. My friends always
laughed at me when I always showed up at the modern season deer camp with my poor boy flinter.

Hunting is something different for each. It is more sport for me. I,m a ole school l guy, I do not
use cameras, feeders, just hunt by looking for tracks, rubs & scrapes. I have as much fun as any.

When I do score, it's a plus.

That's just me & do as you do (just do it legal) Have a nice day Fly

[idahoron]

I,m not knocking anyone. Ron helped me with my GPH, & I,m the one that first named
his rifle Hot Rod Renegade. I loved seeing Ron develop side shooting traditional muzzle loaders.



I didn't remember that you named them but I didn't remember how they were named so you are probably right. That was a long time ago. It is funny that I have had the same load and the same sight in for YEARS!!! That whole hunting platform on both the Renegades and the Hawken is just stable and consistent. I have to get these other guns to have something to play with.

[Fly]

Ron, your a good guy & I love all the post you have done, & people you have helped like me buddy.
Some time people take things wrong over the net. I was just talking about me. I got into black powder
in the 1970,s. I did not get into it for hunting, just shooting & competing in rondys. My hunting came
later, as there were no in lines in those days. Always wanted to shoot one, but would most likely never
buy one. I just love hunting as they did in the day.

I have a friend that makes his own long bows from bowdark trees, his own arrows & flint arrow heads.
That,s all he hunts with. He does very well. I,m not that bad but love seeing people hunt as in the day.

Keep you post coming my friend, Fly

[idahoron]

I am the same way. I really don't like my inlines to be honest. They are harder to clean. For me that is huge! The inlines are so much harder to clean that I hate it when my son says he wants to use one. I really got them for one specific hunt that was legal with Sabots and a Scope. I found that the Hot Rods were better in every way. I am glad you named them that. It has stuck for a long time.