Milling Machine desire resulting in insanity need advice...

[AbitNutz]

Ok, some of you have been there...I want a milling machine. I've never used one. The closest thing I've used is a drill press. However, the desire persists.

I have seen on Craig's list and eBay used milling machines going for extremely reasonable money. I know that the machine is only half the battle, the end mills and accessories ultimately cost at least as much as the machine.

I have to stay away from 3-phase power for obvious reasons. I know there are ways to convert single phase to 3-phase by using a motor but I think that's beyond me.

Can anyone recommend some brands/models? What to stay away from? What to look for? I know condition is everything and parts/repairs are expensive...if they can be had at all. Oh god! Help! See...? If I keep this up I'm going to end up breathing into a paper bag.

[country gent]

One thing you might consider is a machine trades night school coarse or a couple of the apprenticeship courses at a night school or trade school. These will give you an understanding of the machines and capabilities possibly with some hands on with small projects. You definitly want a universal mill first, Bridge port ( has the best reputation in industry) index, Cincinatti ( cinci made one that was vertical and horizontal spindles) jet, accer, or some others. Things to Look for are R-8 collets or quick change tool holders. For hobby use thre R-8s due very well. A power drawbar is nice but requires air pressure and isnt really neccesary. A clean smooth flat table, not drilled or milled full of holes or slots. Digital read outs are nice and makes removing play easy but not neccesary again. On the bridge port style mills the ram swivel should be checked to make sure none of the spiders clamps are broken. A series 2 head with variable again is nice but the series 1 style with step pulleys and v belt does fine. Alot depends on 1) how much room you have to dedicate to this machine, 2) How involved you really want to get with it, 3) The uses for it.

[AbitNutz]

Fortunately, I live in an area of the world that is filled with small machine shops....SW Ohio. I live in the country between Dayton and Cincinnati. Well, I guess that depends on your definition of country...

It's interesting, despite this area being machine shop heaven, there are little if any night courses available. I think there is a sort of unspoken apprenticeship situation going on. I'm thinking of going and asking to work around a shop for nothing...I'm retired so my time is my own. I'm not holding out much hope for this idea. I expect most will feel I'd be more trouble than I'm worth...a good possibility.

I know about the R8 collet. I have air. I didn't think about the clean table or clamps.

[country gent]

That spider under the ram rotation that clamps it tight breaks if tightened to tight to many times. Not super expensive but the ran and swivel have to come off to replace it. Check with any local colledges they may offer the coarses or know who is.

[bob208]

go to the Hobby-Machinist. they have beginners they also have some who mentor new people. I have had a guy coming to my house learning for the last year or so. I just helped him get a Rockwell 21-100 mill. and a 9" south bend lathe. if you lived closer to me I would teach you too.

as for mills a clausing 8520 is a good mill I have had one for over 20 years. the Rockwell is a very good mill also. both will do gun work.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I sure understand your desire for a mill, because I had the same bug and bought one about 25 years ago. I also purchased a fairly large 40" centers lathe. Over the years I found the lathe to be much more useful in general gunsmithing work that is the mill. There do seem to be some jobs that are just right for a mill. It's a great over-simplification, but lathes make things round and mills make things flat. But you can also buy a milling attachment for a lathe, and then there isn't much you can't do with just the lathe. So I guess what I'm saying is take a hard look at what it is that you want to do, and buying a lathe might be the better move. Kind of reinforcing what Country Gent said, but maybe saying it a bit differently, the traditional milling machine that us older guys think about was the Bridgeport type that resembles a large, heavy duty, free standing drill press. They require you to do everything manually. A step up is numerical assist, and the next step is CNC. Naturally, the more features the more expensive the machine. You are correct that tooling is a major expense. I'm planning on relocating soon (moving) and will probably sell my machines--just too far and too heavy to haul. After I get settled in, if I decided I need something like this again I'm going to take a look at some of the combination machines. Used to be no one had much good to say about them, but I think they've improved--just another thing you might look at. About the 3-phase 220V electrical problem, you can get them that run off 110V. They aren't as powerful, but are adequate for some jobs. Mine has a huge 3-phase motor but runs on standard 220V using a device called a phase converter. It cost just a bit over $100, but that was years ago. Works just fine.

[bangerjim]

I have a HF mill-drill we have use hard for the past 15 years and it is still going strong! Less than $650 in it's day. Uses all standard R8 stuff and we can clamp just about anything (index, rotary table, CNC index, tilting table, clamps, etc) to the standard bed. I am not a proponent of HF tools, but their big power stuff is not bad. This one has sure been a good one to us!!!!!

Starting out with some of the brands listed above will set you back many thousands of $$. Start small, learn how to run a mill, and grow into a bigger better one. If your money tree is alive and well, buy the "biggest and bestest" you can find!

Whatever you buy, make sure it uses R8 tooling so you can keep the many thousands of $$ worth of tooling you WILL buy and use it with the next bigger mill you WILL buy!

Being in that part of the country, you should be able to find some good used machines and tooling.

bangerjim

[footpetaljones]

See if there are any makerspaces in your area with a mill or even a lathe with a milling attachment that you could get some practice on.

I'd agree with country gent, a used Bridgeport would be your best option.

[Clark]

I paid $2,200 to get a 1965 Rockwell 21-100 mill on Ebay 12 years ago. It came with a 3 phase converter box.
I paid $12,000 to get a 1969 Bridgeport mill on Ebay 1 year ago. I bought a 3 phase converter box [phase-o-matic]
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/35075-static-phase-converters-297-3715.html167263
I could have done any gunsmithing with the small mill, but getting DRO was nice.

[HangFireW8]

No reason to fear a phase converter.

[bangerjim]

I use AllenBradley 220 phase converters on several tools in our shops. They work great.

All solid state.....much better than the old spinner we used to have. It made a great boat anchor.

220 single phase in - - - - 220 three phase out. Soft start/soft stop. Totally programmable.

They also make a 120v single phase to 220 v three phase unit.

bangerjim

[bob208]

I don't know where you live clark. but around here we pay nothing like those prices. a friend just bought a Rockwell 21-100 for $1000 three months ago. it looks almost new. bp's are in the $3,000 to 4,000 range. I bought my enco 9x42 with power feed,dro and variable speed head new for under 5000 shipping included.


the static converter in your picture also comes with instructions on how to build a rotary converter. that is what we did in my shop.

[BwBrown]

Find and make friends with a hobby machinist, or even a small machine shop. Offer to sweep the floor - anything - so you can watch and learn. A couple years hanging around, you'll soon get "checked out" on one machine then another. Then you will be helping, eventually actually working.
It is possible to go from curious friend to business partner.
I did it. That small private machine shop owner became my best friend ever.
He has since passed on, but I now have a couple each of Bridgeports and South Bend lathes in MY hobby machine shop. And I spend quiet hours trying to remember what all he tried to teach me.
Great memories!

[wrench man]

Don't have one at home, yet, but at work I run a Bridgeport "J" Series with a Mitutoyo
digimatic DRO on it, can do just about anything on it.

[AbitNutz]

A real dream is to get a base machine that either has DRO on it already or I can add it to later...and that I could add CNC capability on later yet. I'm not sure such a thing exists but...

I have a height limitation of about 7'-6"...

If I have eBay search closest results first...I get many, many hits. I can get something large for $5,000. I have no idea if they're any good. It's almost like my wife shopping for a motorcycle or pistol.

[country gent]

The bridgeport with the protrac ezy path controllers may be available in some areas. Can be programed from the console or computer program ( these can be pricey programs) easy to use and set up uses standard tooling. The drawback is most are only 2 axis machines (x + Y). A fadel or other 4 or 5 axis machine center is going to be expensive and tooling even more so.

[Mitch]

man that old bridgeort hurt ouch

[oldred]

the static converter in your picture also comes with instructions on how to build a rotary converter. that is what we did in my shop.

Yes those usually work better if full power is needed but unlike a true rotary converter they are usually quite unbalanced and in dire need of additional capacitors to get everything smoothed out, my three horsepower lathe motor would start and run just fine in both low and high ranges using the static converter alone but after adding a new 5 horsepower GE motor to the equation as recommended by the manufacturer the lathe now will fail to start in high range, tripping the breaker after about five seconds, other than that once running it is smooth and now has full power. It starts just fine in low but the only way I could get it to start in high range was to use a higher gear so as to make spinning the chuck by hand possible thus giving it a running start! A local guy who is well versed in electronics finally fixed this problem for me but it required adding a bank of capacitors and much head scratching determining what and how much, simply adding the motor to the converter can work but it is far from ideal, they don't include all those big capacitors with the true rotary convertors for a joke! After researching my problem quite a bit I found this is very common when adding that motor and very often, as was certainly my case, it's better to just use the static converter by itself because while adding the motor to the static unit does make it a rotary unit it is a very unbalanced one that can cause a host of problems.


Besides the newer VFD solid state convertor units make static or rotary convertors or static with a motor added obsolete! The VFD units can be about the same cost as a static convertor and even cheaper than a rotary unless several machines need to be powered and the VFD can do many things that neither of the other two types can even dream about doing! Instant reversing, dynamic breaking, variable speed, etc all from a machine that has none of those capabilities from either a static or a rotary converter or even hooked up to grid three phase power for that matter.

[Garyshome]

Check this one out
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Mill-Drill-with-Stand-and-DRO/G0759

[AbitNutz]

Wow...now we're talking! That Grizzly looks very affordable. I wonder what else is available in its class?

[Jeff Michel]

Since your in Ohio already, this will be easy. The two places I deal with is McKean Machinery (John Brand is the owner) and HGR surplus. Both are in Brookpark and Euclid respectively and both have a web sight. Don't mess around, if you have room for a Bridgeport or a clone get one. Get a static phase converter and your all set. You should be able to get a good serviceable Bridgeport (step pulley) for 1500.00 or less, a darn nice one for under 3000.00 (variable speed) They also have a bunch of second hand tooling some new, some used, some junk. You have to root around but that's half the fun.

[Clark]

I don't know where you live clark. but around here we pay nothing like those prices. a friend just bought a Rockwell 21-100 for $1000 three months ago. it looks almost new. bp's are in the $3,000 to 4,000 range. I bought my enco 9x42 with power feed,dro and variable speed head new for under 5000 shipping included.


the static converter in your picture also comes with instructions on how to build a rotary converter. that is what we did in my shop.

The Bridgeport on Ebay was like new and had everything. I would have paid $20k if I had to. It had never cut steel. It made microwave module that is on Mars. The same guy at a microwave outfit is the only one who operated it since it was bought new in 1969. I did put a couple small scratches on it getting it in the building.

[AbitNutz]

It would seem that my phobia about 3-phase power is unfounded. After reading up at Practical Machinist it seems that the way to go is a VFD (Variable Frequency Drives). Using a VFD gives a multitude of solution, including giving variable speed to belt stepped machines...to a degree.

This opens the door to a lot more machines at really excellent prices. It also opens the door to the cost of moving one of these insanely heavy machines...

[oldred]

This opens the door to a lot more machines at really excellent prices. It also opens the door to the cost of moving one of these insanely heavy machines...


Once you get past the moving part you will really get to appreciate that extra weight, that's something the smaller imports don't have and no matter how fancy or how many bells and whistles those slick looking imports have if that mass is not there then the rigidity won't be there either! It's just laws of physics, all that mass of a heavy machine absorbs the vibration and harmonics and there simply is no substitute for that.

[country gent]

On these heavy machines pipe is our friend. A couple large pry bars lift it up to get 1 1/2" or 2" lengths of pipe under it 4-5 lengths. it then rolls wherever you want it. just take the one that comes out the back and put it in front again. Rolled alot of machines around like that.

[Mk42gunner]

I've moved many 1,015 lb Mosler safes by using three pipes or metal conduit for rollers.

Depending on where you have to pick up the load, and how big the door to your shop is; look into renting a forklift or tractor with a loader, maybe even a Bobcat.

Truck with a Tommy-Lift tailgate?

Robert

[seagiant]

It would seem that my phobia about 3-phase power is unfounded. After reading up at Practical Machinist it seems that the way to go is a VFD (Variable Frequency Drives). Using a VFD gives a multitude of solution, including giving variable speed to belt stepped machines...to a degree.

This opens the door to a lot more machines at really excellent prices. It also opens the door to the cost of moving one of these insanely heavy machines...

Hi,
The Bridgeport Series I is actually a "light" mill!

The one problem with VFD's is that they do not give you all the HP from the motor on the mill.

Some people don't care but when you have a 1950/60's BP Mill with only a 1HP motor it is something to look at!

A rotory phase converter (RPC) on the other hand gives you more of the original capacity!

The people at PM have all the info you need on building your own RPC and the biggest cost is a 7-10 HP 3PH motor!

These are usually easy to find used.

I bought mine brand new in the crate for $50 (Chi-Com) from the guy that helped me move my mill!

[clodhopper]

I understand your need, am suffering from same.
A new CNC course opened in my area when I had time to attend, my computer skills were weak, but the classes really opened my eyes to what is possible.
Was very fortunate to be able to buy a Tormach 1100 mill, classed by many machinist's as a hobby tool with 220 volt power and 1 1/2 horse spindle it fits very nicely in my garage.
it would fit in you 7'6" garage but, would be very tough to assemble inside.

I started my classes August 2014, machine arrived at my house October 2015, Steep learning curve in progress now.

[smokeywolf]

You're getting some great advice here AbitNutz. When it comes to precision and good finishes, mass is your friend. I use a fairly large rotary phase converter as I have the Bridgeport and a largeish engine lathe.

Once you decide to shop for a Bridgeport, be patient and you will eventually find a great machine at a reasonable price.

Make sure you can check it under power. If it's had a recent repaint, be suspicious. Get yourself a dial test indicator so you can mount it in a spindle to check quill and spindle bearing slop. The cross hatching on the Y axis ways will show more wear in the middle than at the rearward and forward most ends. But, if you see 80% at each end of the ways, you should still see something close to 60% in the middle.

[oldred]

The one problem with VFD's is that they do not give you all the HP from the motor on the mill.


Static converters such as the ever popular Phase-O-Matic provide only about 2/3 of full power but with the right VFD power loss is negligible and performance is usually not lacking.

[seagiant]

Static converters such as the ever popular Phase-O-Matic provide only about 2/3 of full power but with the right VFD power loss is negligible and performance is usually not lacking.

Hi,
Money to usable power?

Rotary Phase Converter every time!

[oldred]

Hi,
Money to usable power?

Rotary Phase Converter every time!


Not sure what you mean with the money quote, VFDs are usually not as expensive as a good rotary converter.

VFDs take a single speed one direction motor with coast stop and give them variable speed, dynamic breaking and instant reversing, while the rotary converter runs that same motor in one direction at one speed. The right VFD, depending on the power needs of the three phase motor it's running, can very often run a 220 three phase machine from a 110 volt source, something else the rotary can not do. In short the VFD opens up many possibilities by adding very desirable capabilities that the machine never had before while the rotary will simply run the motor period.

VFDs are the future, they can do many things for a motor that could not be done before, a rotary can run the motor in one direction and that's pretty much it. To each his own but I personally would ten to one rather have the VFD and all it can do vs the old tech rotaries.

[smokeywolf]

Actually, oldred, and not meaning to argue, but I run a rotary phase converter and when I want to reverse spindle direction on my 17/25 x 40 engine lathe I just push the spindle jog handle down and at speeds below 200 rpm, the spindle reverses direction almost instantaneously.

On the Bridgeport the switch that energizes the motor to run forward also has reverse. Both my lathe and mill have mechanical braking.

I will say that the VFDs ARE the cat's meow. They save on your electric bill as opposed to a rotary phase converter, are far quieter, and as you say, offer variable speed and dynamic braking. I ran a 1965ish Warner Swasey engine lathe in the Universal Studios Machine Shop that had been fitted with a VFD.

I think as far as cost effectiveness, it boils down to how many machines you have in your shop that run on 220 3-phase.

[oldred]

Actually, oldred, and not meaning to argue, but I run a rotary phase converter and when I want to reverse spindle direction on my 17/25 x 40 engine lathe I just push the spindle jog handle down and at speeds below 200 rpm, the spindle reverses direction almost instantaneously.

Well sure lots of machines have reverse already but my point is that the VFD units will give that capability to a motor/machine that previously ran in only one direction, of course it also does other neat tricks. I really like threading with my lathe much better since switching to VFD, that smooth variable speed is to me the best advantage of all and on the mill (a J head Bridgeport clone) that variable speed function was like getting a new mill! You probably know what a pain in the rump it is to change speeds on those things switching the belt and all and the really poor selection of speeds to chose from even then. That VFD made that mill into a whole new machine!


I think as far as cost effectiveness, it boils down to how many machines you have in your shop that run on 220 3-phase

That's a darn good point, I suppose two to possibly three VFD powered machines would be close in cost vs going with a rotary depending on what is chosen since prices on either type can vary a great deal. In my case I had a three horsepower lathe, 2 horsepower mill and a 1 1/2 horsepower grinder (I left the grinder with the static unit) so it was about a tossup or a bit cheaper for me when I switched from the static units. More than two or three higher horsepower machines and the rotary would be the cheaper option for sure.

[AbitNutz]

I found a small machine shop that may put up with me. The gentleman, and he is a gentleman, who is the owner, chief cook and bottle washer, showed me what I can only describe as his child. It's a Deckel FP-1 with Mitutoyo 3-axis DRO's and 40 taper. It's quite a bit more compact than a Bridgeport. He claims that if I learned to use it correctly I will be ruined for life as Bridgeport's don't compare. I have no damn idea what he is talking about most of the time. It's very odd to hear a thick Kentucky accent speaking German words.

While it would appear that the size and capability of a Deckel FP-1 would be about perfect for what I would use it for, I understand that a good one, or anyone for that matter, are hard to find and expensive when you do.

I would hate to be ruined for life as I have so little left...

[akajun]

In Ohio, you are in the best area for a used mill. Find a good Bridgeport 2j model , any model lagun, wells index, tree or excello.
Good import mills are Webb , sharp, or acer.
Buy a three phase mill and buy a vfd for 200$ , especially if you buy a step pully mill, and you will be glad you did.
Do not buy a mill drill.

[AbitNutz]

I have been told that round column drill mills are not the way to go. As you say, a used Bridgeport or the like, mated to a VFD doesn't have any downside. I'll definitely need a DRO. They don't seem to be difficult or expensive to add and after seeing a DRO in action, I can't imagine not having it.

[akajun]

I have a Tpac tools dro I mounted on my lagun, 3 axis, $455. Works very well but you will spend a good day installing it

[oldred]

I have been told that round column drill mills are not the way to go

Someone definitely gave you good advice!

[Buckshot]

...............I sure understand the desire for a milling machine. I KNEW I was going to get one so I started buying tooling for it, mostly off E-bay. I worked 12 hour shifts at night, and pretty much didn't have anything to do, as "All the brains were at Corporate" if you follow my meaning? I probably had a couple thousand bucks worth of stuff, including a 10" rotary table when the time came.

http://www.fototime.com/CCDC95FD15F5B4D/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/F0246CBFA1294E0/standard.jpg

I ordered it from ENCO when they had it on sale, with with an Anilam DRO and X axis power feed installed, with free shipping. I paid a local tow truck company to deliver it from the shipper's dock to my driveway. They had it on a flatbed with a forklift and set it down right in from of my garage door. I had a friend to give me a hand. We uncrated it, then carefully dismantled the pallet it was on piece by piece till it was on the concrete. With 4 pieces of 2" steel pipe as rollers and a come-along, we got it back to where it needed to be. With a couple wrecking bars we then slid it sideways about 2' to where ti now rests.

http://www.fototime.com/5314205EBA5B5A5/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/487F78FC5B1BC82/standard.jpg

I'd previously had ordered a TECO/Westinghouse VFD and mounted it under the DRO. I soon changed to to OVER the DRO, as chips through the cooling vents probably wouldn't have a positive outcome! This VFD has a schematic for, and is set up for remote operation so you could have it mounted on the wall behind you with just a panel by the mill. In the photo on the right you can see a cart behind the table. This is a 1000# hydraulic lift table from Harbor Freight. I added the 2 shelves to it. The top 2 shelves have the heavy stuff at the front like a second milling vice and the rotary table. If you need the rotary table you don't have to pick it up. Just pump up the lift table (has a foot pedal pump) till it matches the milling machine and then slide it over to the mill. Ditto if you need the second vise.

The milling machine came with a 1 year warranty and a pre-shipping operational checkout (with a printout) from their facility in Atlanta, GA. Haven't has a moments problem with it to date and it's 7 years old.

http://www.fototime.com/AF0D350ED258A8E/standard.jpghttp://www.fototime.com/0F8E84406AD9963/standard.jpg

Little parts are sometimes tough as the lament is always, "How an I gonna hold it to make it! Left, replacement rear slide for an AMT 30 Carbine Semi Auto, and right a sight ramp with a dovetail.

http://www.fototime.com/D3D2A1AD24E3CCD/standard.jpg
http://www.fototime.com/FA640900C311E7C/standard.jpg

Other times you get to make bigger stuff, like an Action nut for removing Krag rifle actions, or a big mojo steady rest for the lathe so you can bore pop can morter barrels!

.................Buckshot

[smokeywolf]

Beautiful mill Buckshot. I wouldn't dare own a white or ivory colored machine. Even my battleship grey Bridgeport looks in desperate need of a good cleaning. Anilam/Accu-Rite are great DRO units. I've found DRO on the quill to be much more advantageous than DRO on the knee.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've moved many 1,015 lb Mosler safes by using three pipes or metal conduit for rollers.

Depending on where you have to pick up the load, and how big the door to your shop is; look into renting a forklift or tractor with a loader, maybe even a Bobcat.

Truck with a Tommy-Lift tailgate?

Robert

A figure which strikes a chill into my heart. Long, long ago a foundry that was supposed to be sending me a 600lb. keel-shaped boat keel sent me a 1050lb. rectangular keel by mistake. They dropped it where it was in everybody's way, and I got it to the far end of the boatyard, to wait for the replacement, in pretty much the way you describe. Of course I was younger then.

Here is one of my projects, the piece of D2 air hardening steel which will someday be the ultimate Cadet Martini. The full-depth rectangular slot I had cut by wire electrical discharge machining, but the extension to one end was milled on what many would consider a pathetic little mini-mill, and is true to .002in. with the EDM slot, bottom and sides. If you are unburdened by the necessity to do things at a speed you can earn a living by, any mill is better than no mill, and the least can earn its keep if you work within its limitations.

167881

[oldred]

any mill is better than no mill, and the least can earn its keep if you work within its limitations.


You bet it is! I have a little benchtop mill, a Seig x2 type that I built an 1885 Highwall receiver on starting with a 1 1/2 x 3x 8 block of 4140HT. This was a couple of years ago just before I got my Bridgeport clone but that little mill is still with me and it still gets used quite a bit. The first two receivers on the completed rifles I did were done on a lathe with a milling attachment and I can say from experience that even that little mill is orders of magnitude better than the milling attachment on the lathe! If someone needs a mill and due to money or space, or both, they can't swing a full size mill that little Seig or one of it's many cousins with a different nameplate can do a fantastic job as long as a person is willing to work within it's limits, I would not hesitate to buy another one if it was the only mill I could afford or had room for. They need a few mods but nothing complected or expensive and even after obtaining my full size mill I still find that thing handy as a shirt pocket and I wouldn't want to part with it. Building something like a rifle receiver and all the related parts takes longer on the little mill vs a big one of course but as long as the operator respects the limitations of the little one the finished part will not know the difference.


Same as this one,

http://www.thefishnet.com/wood/ms/verticalminimill/14jul05015.jpg


That's the Harbor Freight version and I saw one in like new condition go for $275 US about two months ago.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

You bet it is! I have a little benchtop mill, a Seig x2 type that I built an 1885 Highwall receiver on starting with a 1 1/2 x 3x 8 block of 4140HT. This was a couple of years ago just before I got my Bridgeport clone but that little mill is still with me and it still gets used quite a bit. The first two receivers on the completed rifles I did were done on a lathe with a milling attachment and I can say from experience that even that little mill is orders of magnitude better than the milling attachment on the lathe! If someone needs a mill and due to money or space, or both, they can't swing a full size mill that little Seig or one of it's many cousins with a different nameplate can do a fantastic job as long as a person is willing to work within it's limits, I would not hesitate to buy another one if it was the only mill I could afford or had room for. They need a few mods but nothing complected or expensive and even after obtaining my full size mill I still find that thing handy as a shirt pocket and I wouldn't want to part with it. Building something like a rifle receiver and all the related parts takes longer on the little mill vs a big one of course but as long as the operator respects the limitations of the little one the finished part will not know the difference.


Same as this one,

http://www.thefishnet.com/wood/ms/verticalminimill/14jul05015.jpg


That's the Harbor Freight version and I saw one in like new condition go for $275 US about two months ago.

The only difference is that mine, marketed in the UK under the name Chester by a proper machine tool supplier with a good parts service, is yellow.

We have heard a lot of good advice in this thread to go large, which it would be foolish for a professional gunsmith to ignore. But for the amateur who simply isn't going to do that, or who might do it in a year or two if things work out for him, a mini-mill is a valid way to go. For the total novice it does have the advantage that tool abuse, which a professional would intuitively select speed and feed to avoid, is more easily detectable by sound and slowing. My friends call mine my sight mill. But I look sometimes at my Parker-Hale Lee-Enfield receiver sight, from the days when military rifle with no scope and no permanent modifications was the target discipline in the UK, and I reflect that it would make one of those as well as any mill can. As they routinely sell for over £100 nowadays, you don't have to do many jobs like that to pay for the machine. With a basic indexing fitment you could mill and grind reamers too.

They are easily abused, and I'm told that the nylon gears in the head can fail, but that was a 5/8in. end mill for my job, not too timidly used, and they are fine. They are easily obtainable, and far better than a burnt out motor. There is also some kind of overload cutout switch, too rapid to be thermal. Just out of curiosity I measured those gears, and read up on the module system for gear specification in Wikipedia. You can get gears on eBay if the source ever dries up.

Your 1885 receiver sounds like a fascinating project. Somebody has to do it! I would have thought sharp corners in the breechblock recess ought to be broached, or in my case EDM eroded. (A broaching firm I consulted only had 20mm. and 3/4in. square broaches, and could only do it to less than double the size of the square.) I suppose if you mill it, finishing up with a small enough diameter mill to leave plenty of flat bearing surface, the corners could be filed. But in my case the slot was only 18.5mm. wide, and deeper than for the 1885. I think you would have to use too long and thin an end mill to work well.

[oldred]

Actually it's relatively easy to square those corners, when I did the first one that part was my major concern but it turns out to have been much ado about little. What I did was drill a 5/8 hole at the proper angle then get it as close as possible with a long 1/4 end mill leaving the 1/8 radius corners to be filed. I rigged up a simple filing guide and then using the finished to size breech block and layout fluid to show high spots I was able to get a super close fit that slides easily with no detectable slop, proper riffler files here makes this job go MUCH easier! The second one, a scaled down version of the high wall, was done exactly the same way but on the third one I started with the 5/8 hole again but that time I roughed it out with a long 5/16 end mill first then only used the 1/4 mill to finish the corners. If anyone wants to try this I highly recommend using both the 5/16 and 1/4 end mills because while the 1/4 will get the job done it does so much more slowly and makes maintaining the proper tolerance a lot harder to do.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That is pretty inspirational stuff, and it would be hard to get through life without a mill after hearing of such things. As I said, I think that method wouldn't be quite so well suited to the depth of slot that I wanted. Drilling the four corners of the slot or mortice before starting to mill it square might help. I have some straight fluted tungsten carbide letter drills which drill very straight, and could start a twist drill doing the same.

I did think of making my own broach. A proper one, designed to convert a round hole to a square one, is a very large job and would surely require more force than the 10 ton press I can use. But a one-corner broach, to do one corner at a time and with three corners rounded off to match the milled hole, should be a lot easier on both counts.