30 carbine conversions

[RU shooter]

Me and a co worker were talking the other day about how nice and handy the m1 carbines were and how the down fall in his mind was the low power ctg. It used . Now I am aware of some of the conversions done with it like the 22 Johnson spitfire and some were done on the 45 mag , Anyone know if others that were done and worked well ? Then I got looking at my cartridges of the world book for ammo that would fit that envelope , I seen there's a 35 SL which is the same oal case length as the 30 carbine . It's just a rimless 357 mag . Sooooo I started thinking same length ,body dia not that much bigger ,pressures are close the 357 is like 6k cup more for max. And Heck who wouldn't t like a 13-14 shot 357 magnum in a 5 1/2 lb semiauto rifle!!!! I'd buy one . Only issue is have to pay big money to get star line or someone to make rimless 357 mag brass or lots of lathe time to make your own . Besides that issue anyone see a reason why you couldn't open up the bolt face slightly ream the chamber and bore out the barrel to .357 ?


Tim

[SOFMatchstaff]

You might consider the 9mm magnum case, its shorter than the 357, a rimless 38 special. The bolt face and extractor work wouldnt require as much metal removal. I had to repair a 45wm conversion and the bolt face area is the weak point, not to mention the magazine issues. I have contemplated a 10mm mag conversion for awhile now, just havent had the time or a suitable donor rifle..

[lobogunleather]

Back in the 1960's there was a gunsmith in Colorado Springs that offered M1 carbine conversions to .357 magnum. Also offered a rather unique conversion of the M1 carbine to a slide (pump) action. Of course, those were the days when surplus carbines could be had for about $20 via the CMP program, and there were a lot of them in use.

Lots of things are possible, especially if your pockets are deep enough.

[runfiverun]

the 351 wsl would be a pretty good change over.
the cases are available from time to time and you can get plated bullets from Berry's.
sizing down 35cal boolits is also possible.

[RU shooter]

All interesting thoughts and replies thanks , so the 351 WSL isn't a true .357 dia bullet? Interesting , stated in COTW book that it is simply a rimless 357 mag and can be fired in a revolver if wanted or needed . So what dia is it .351 ?

Tim

[ajjohns]

351 SL is .351, not .357. I don't believe cases interchange, at least without rim work.

[bob208]

lets see you want to take a rifle that has lots of brass and loading data out there for one that takes brass that has to be formed or some times made? now the biggest draw back to the carbine was bullets.but that has been covered many years ago.


years ago we would plug the gas piston and make it a straight pull for turkey hunting. those conversions drove the bunny cops nuts. because they kept saying they were semi autos. which are not legal in this state for hunting.

[country gent]

How about a shortened 223 case cut to same length as 30 carbine and expanded up to 357 dia (basically a 9X23 wildcat type cartridge) for the bullets you want to use. Would have the rimless desighn you want, WOuld be fairly easy to make with a file trim die and die set, Brass is very plentifull and inexpensive, and it would have the heavier rifle type case head. Basically Cut and file to rough length in file trim die, expand to .357 caliber deeper than bullet seats. Final trim load and fire form.

[rondog]

I've read many times the .30 carbine round is ballistically equivalent to the .357 magnum. Non-issue, IMO. I'm quite happy with the round as it is. Want a more powerful carbine? Lots of other choices already.

[RU shooter]

lets see you want to take a rifle that has lots of brass and loading data out there for one that takes brass that has to be formed or some times made? now the biggest draw back to the carbine was bullets.but that has been covered many years ago.


years ago we would plug the gas piston and make it a straight pull for turkey hunting. those conversions drove the bunny cops nuts. because they kept saying they were semi autos. which are not legal in this state for hunting.
nooooo I don't have any plans on making a carbine or even buying one , like I said in the first post it was just me and another guy letting thoughts wonder on what's possible in the 30 carbine length envelope and what has already been done successfully , just one of those thinking out loud threads .

[DanM]

No personal experience, but I have heard that the .357 Auto Mag is one of the most successful cartridges for M1 carbine conversions.

[kawasakifreak77]

How about a shortened 223 case cut to same length as 30 carbine and expanded up to 357 dia (basically a 9X23 wildcat type cartridge) for the bullets you want to use. Would have the rimless desighn you want, WOuld be fairly easy to make with a file trim die and die set, Brass is very plentifull and inexpensive, and it would have the heavier rifle type case head. Basically Cut and file to rough length in file trim die, expand to .357 caliber deeper than bullet seats. Final trim load and fire form.

Just for fun I've actually done this.

I thought a long time ago an M1 carbine with 357 smack would be a hoot.

I cut a 5.56 case behind the shoulder, ran it through a 357 die & trimmed to length. I loaded it with one of my 358429s & set it on the shelf.

Don't have a gun for it & probably never will but it looks neat sitting there. I wonder if there would be possible headspace issues?

[RU shooter]

It shouldn't it would headspace on the case mouth same as the 30 carbine cool idea I'll have to try and make one of those tonight

[Hickory]

Here's a M1 ready made in 9x19 mm.

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/2679

[Multigunner]

Herter once sold single action revolvers chambered for the .351 SL cartridge.
The 9mm Winchester Magnum auto pistol cartridge might be a good choice, if cases aren't too hard to find.
Theres really not much difference in power or bullet weight if factory ammo were used, but with a heavier bullet hand load it could be a winner.

Actually if a decent hollow point bullet is used the .30 carbine cartridge is plenty lethal.

[justashooter]

351 WSL uses a true .351 bullet and a semi-rimmed case, but people have fired converted 223 cases and 356-358 bullets in them if the chamber will accept.

you could just buy a model 7 Winchester and Jaimeson factory ammo if this performance/package is what you want.

[Bmi48219]

The Chiappa ad says it's a " blowback" action. Never saw one myself but I am certain it works, lots of 9 mm blowback firearms out there. But --- IMO If it looks like a M1 carbine it should work like one too. One of the appealing things about an M1 carbine was the locking bolt. May as well buy something else.

[Shiloh]

Seems like I saw an article about one that had the .30 Carbine case necked down to .25 cal. Googled it and nothing came up.
I don't understand why the military didn't use something along the lines of a 35 caliber in the same length cartridge that would have added more wallop. The .357 Magnum in a rimless case type of thing. The .357 mag came out in 1934. Thank you Elmer Keith.

SHiloh

[kywoodwrkr]

Have a M1 carbine converted to 5.7 Johnson.
Was done in 1995-98 time frame.
Gentleman(PALADIN) turned barrels out in steel and stainless steel.
Bought three barrels, sold two on the old e-Bay.
Bought receiver from Sarco or Numrich and assembled my Winchester 5.7.
Use 218 Bee projectiles.
Really sweet little carbine with case formed from standard 30 carbine.

[Outpost75]

I would be interested in a viable conversion of an M1 carbine to 7.62x25mm, who has done one,??

[W.R.Buchanan]

For the life of me, I can't understand why the Gubmint concocted that cartridge. The .357 already existed and it's performance was well documented. They were developing a new cartridge any way, why not make a Rimless .357?

I doubt you would be able to buy one now as it would have been a pretty popular gun. Closest thing now is the Ruger 44 Carbine, which are around, but not cheap and have had problems in the past.

My other thoughts for that gun have been .45 ACP which was in wide spread use so there would have been no ammunition issues. But then the gun would only be a 100 yard gun and the .30 Carbine round is a legitimate 200 yard cartridge and as long as you could hit the target, it would at least wound the guy.

The Rimless .357 would have been the obvious best choice. I don't see why Inland hasn't started making this gun as they are the outfit that is making the new US made M1 Carbines and were a manufacturer of the last War Time guns. The .357 Auto Mag cartridge is the same thing.

My mind drifts on... :coffee:

Randy

[blackbahart]

I use starline 9mmwin mag for my 35wsl and they function just fine ,just run them through the 35wsl loading die remove wee belt and good to go

[MarkP]

My old Ackley Book had a cartridge based off of shortened 30-06 cases for the M1 Carbines; IIRC it was named 375 Shannon; another was a .375 x 38-40 Rimless.

[Multigunner]

One consideration when choosing the .30 Carbine cartridge was its ability to penetrate helmets and the low tech body armor of late WW1 through WW2.
While body armor was seldom encountered during WW2 the Japanese did develop several types of armored vests for their Special Air Commando units and for use by Imperial Marine machinegunners and some officers. Photos of high ranking Japanese officers in China sometimes show them wearing steel breastplates over their uniform tunics.
The Japanese designed vest, which resembled the Vietnam era body armor in style, used manganese steel plates , of the same alloy used for their helmets, that in USN tests proved capable of stopping the .45 ACP bullet.

The Soviets during WW2 also fielded body armor in the form of a breastplate. These breastplates could stop a 9mm steel core bullet from an SMG at 125 yards and lead core bullets at closer ranges. The heaviest version of the Soviet armor, issued to sappers, could deflect rifle bullets at long range and stop the 9mm point blank.

All the helmets of the major powers could stop the .45 ACP bullet.

[W.R.Buchanan]

One consideration when choosing the .30 Carbine cartridge was its ability to penetrate helmets and the low tech body armor of late WW1 through WW2. All the helmets of the major powers could stop the .45 ACP bullet.

They would stop them but you'd still get your bell rung pretty hard. Massive headache to follow.

Pretty sure a .357 FMJ Bullet from a rifle length barrel at close to 2000fps would go thru one.

Randy

[Geezer in NH]

I had an Iver Johnson in the 5.7 cartridge. Shot about like a hornet and then spit the handmade brass all over creation with less than 75% recovered. Let it go down the road.

[SOFMatchstaff]

I use starline 9mmwin mag for my 35wsl and they function just fine ,just run them through the 35wsl loading die remove wee belt and good to go

He said what I said, and I agree. I have tested the 9mm mag in the Coonan chamber(not steady use) and it develops a comparable performance level. Around 1500 fps (5"bbl)with the 125gr bullets with a lot of room for improvement.

[Harter66]

9mm Winchester mag.
It and the 9x17,19,21,23 and 222,223 clans functionally share a head and rim dimensions.
Cut the 223 case off wherever you need it use a 9x19 or 38/357 die set and turn the OD for bullet and chamber fit . The cartridge is easy . It doesn't seem to work well in AR platforms .