unique in 300+grain?

[tdoyka]

i am getting a ruger super blackhawk in 44mag with a 4 5/8" barrel. i have a deer load that i can use(250gr hp/unique with only my left arm, had a stroke). i was wondering can i use a 300-320gr cast with unique for another 50 yard and less deer load? i tried finding it in lyman book but no dice.

if so, what grain of unique do i start at?
or should i stay with my 250gr/unique?

[noisewaterphd]

I have used a 300gr XTP with Unique. Seated at 1.610 I noted 9gr of Unique as max, with 1071 fps average from a 6.5" barrel. If I noted something as max, it was definitely close to pressure limits, so approach 9gr with care.

I would probably start somewhere around 6gr, and work slowly up watching for pressure.

If you can get measurements of the cast bullet you want to use, along with the OAL you want to use I might have something closer in my logs.

[Lloyd Smale]

personally id stick to the 250s if its just for deer and recoil is a consideration. Yes you could use unique for the 300s but theres much better powders. Even if you want some 1000 fps stuff powders like hs6 and 2400 are much better with 300s. Ive shot a enough deer with sixguns to tell you that without a doubt theres none walking that you need a 300 grain bullet for. Ive shot length wise through deer with 250s at a 1000-1100fps and shot a 1100 lb bison with a load just like that. I got into the big heavy bullet heavy load thing for my 44s and 45s when I was younger. Found out it was a big overkill.
i am getting a ruger super blackhawk in 44mag with a 4 5/8" barrel. i have a deer load that i can use(250gr hp/unique with only my left arm, had a stroke). i was wondering can i use a 300-320gr cast with unique for another 50 yard and less deer load? i tried finding it in lyman book but no dice.

if so, what grain of unique do i start at?
or should i stay with my 250gr/unique?

[noisewaterphd]

I would take a cast 300gr over a 250gr HP for game.

[huntrick64]

My pet load for my Ruger Bisley Blackhawk was 284 gr. Solid KT AC/WW (Mihec Mold) over 8.2 gr. Unique with OAL=1.700. Medium roll crimp. One big hole at 25 yds. Note, this is above Standard 45 Colt, but well within loads specified for Blackhawk.

[DougGuy]

Unique is really too fast for the heavyweights. If you MUST use it for magnum velocities, use a lighter boolit. There is a reason you don't see it listed with those heavy for caliber boolits and that is because it is not recommended. There are much better and MUCH safer choices when you get to 300gr in the .44 magnum. 2400, AA#9, LilGun, W296/H110 generally it is a real good practice to stick with slow burning magnum powders for the heavyweights.

[justashooter]

Sure, H110 and WW 296 are standard magnum powders, but this guy needs something in between. Herco and Blue Dot were options. Nobody uses Herco for anything but shotguns anymore, if that. Old cans...Blue Dot was exactly what you are looking for, but the word is that the new Alliant formula is much hotter than the Hercules produced product. Hercules Blue Dot is a bit sooty if you run it at reduced loadings, so stay within 10% of max when using it from old cans.... It is a flake, so does not meter as well as ball powders.

What you might try well is Accurate #5 or #7:
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44%20Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun

[noisewaterphd]

Unique is really too fast for the heavyweights. If you MUST use it for magnum velocities, use a lighter boolit. There is a reason you don't see it listed with those heavy for caliber boolits and that is because it is not recommended. There are much better and MUCH safer choices when you get to 300gr in the .44 magnum. 2400, AA#9, LilGun, W296/H110 generally it is a real good practice to stick with slow burning magnum powders for the heavyweights.

Agreed, unless you are looking for a bit less punch because you are shooting with one hand.

Mag powders aren't good for loading down.

Unique isn't bad for a mid range load at all, even in a 300gr, and it is specifically what the OP asked about.

With that in mind, and if we are suggesting powders, tdoyka do you have anything a bit slower burning? Something in between Unique and 2400?

Longshot, AA7, True Blue, etc.? We could get you some more FPS with a still mild recoil...

[noisewaterphd]

Sure, H110 and WW 296 are standard magnum powders, but this guy needs something in between. Herco and Blue Dot were options. Nobody uses Herco for anything but shotguns anymore, if that. Old cans...Blue Dot was exactly what you are looking for, but the word is that the new Alliant formula is much hotter than the Hercules produced product. Hercules Blue Dot is a bit sooty if you run it at reduced loadings, so stay within 10% of max when using it from old cans.... It is a flake, so does not meter as well as ball powders.

What you might try well is Accurate #5 or #7:
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=44%20Magnum&Weight=All&type=Handgun

I missed your post while I was typing. I think AA5 is still too fast, agreed that AA7 would be good.

I don't like Blue Dot in mags. I think it's too dirty on the low end and too unpredictable on the top end. I have replaced Blue Dot with True Blue, which would also be great in this situation.

[DougGuy]

Sure, H110 and WW 296 are standard magnum powders, but this guy needs something in between.

Granted, and also as mentioned do not download H110 and W296, but the thing that is throwing the wrench into the gears is the boolit weight he is asking about. The heavy boolit will generate considerable recoil, even down to the point that it is moving too slow to gather enough spin in the barrel to stabilize. They just don't do well unless flung fairly hard downrange. I don't think there is much of a middle of the road with a 300gr boolit. Not in .44 magnum anyway.

[tdoyka]

Granted, and also as mentioned do not download H110 and W296, but the thing that is throwing the wrench into the gears is the boolit weight he is asking about. The heavy boolit will generate considerable recoil, even down to the point that it is moving too slow to gather enough spin in the barrel to stabilize. They just don't do well unless flung fairly hard downrange. I don't think there is much of a middle of the road with a 300gr boolit. Not in .44 magnum anyway.

its ok, i think i'll just stay with the 250gr. i have a pound of w296 but the recoil got me after 6 shots of 250gr. it is real hard to shoot the 44 mag with heavy loads of w296 with one hand. i'll just stay with the skeeter loads.

thanks anyway!

[DougGuy]

it is real hard to shoot the 44 mag with heavy loads of w296 with one hand.

Yeah exactly! That's hard enough for someone who is in perfect shape and who isn't up in the years. I'm 63 and all I shoot in the .44 and .45 Colt are the heavy loads and I would NOT like to be having to shoot those one handed!

I bought one of the medium framed vaqueros in .45 Colt which won't take the 30,000psi loads and I can't wait to get to shooting it with medium power loads that equal the +P .45 ACP cartridge. This is a much lighter gun than a SBH, much easier to hold with one hand and I can dry fire it with my left eye and left hand without the sights jumping all over so this could be an option for you as well, something lighter and easier for the left hand. This one is also my first foray into the lesser than full strength Rugers and I am looking forward to loading for it and shooting it.

[Lloyd Smale]

and the deer you will no doubt kill very dead sure wont be able to tell the difference. 300s have there place on truly large heavy boned animals but there sure not needed on deer.
its ok, i think i'll just stay with the 250gr. i have a pound of w296 but the recoil got me after 6 shots of 250gr. it is real hard to shoot the 44 mag with heavy loads of w296 with one hand. i'll just stay with the skeeter loads.

thanks anyway!

[44man]

I agree they are not needed for deer but I still love a heavy boolit. Then nothing would stand long hit with a 300 going slow either.
That was not my consideration though since I shot all my heavy weights with faster powders, Unique, and all else I had. Accuracy was real sad and some patterns were 2' at 50 yards.
The longer boolits just need spun up and Unique can't do it. I would not shoot at a deer over 15-20 yards with a 300 + going 1100 FPS or less. The chances of a cripple are just too high.

[Groo]

Groo here
As the orginal 45 colt [ BP, 250gr bullet, at 950+ from a 7 1/2 in colt]
would go through a horse [and hit the indian on the other side] at some 100yds,
there is really no need to go over about 250 to 280gr as long as you can get 1000fps.

[tdoyka]

i remember around 20+ years ago, i loaded up my ruger super redhawk(7.5" barrel) in 44 mag with a 200gr xtp with a heavy dose of w296 and did she kill the deer! i could shoot them and the 240gr xtp's all day long. now its a little(well alot!!!:-P) different. with only one hand(and arm) the recoil is what stops me, after about 5- 6 shots of the 200 - 240gr xtp with w296.

i wonder what the 405gr fpgc boolit does!!![smilie=l: i bet its not good for those of us one hander guys!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDc61sq-H-A

[44man]

i wonder what the 405gr fpgc boolit does!!![smilie=l: i bet its not good for those of us one hander guys!!!!
Not much of anything! They will not stabilize and most holes are tipped.
I would stay with a lighter boolit if you want a lower velocity. A 240 to 250 is even OK with 7 gr of Unique, bottle accurate to 50.

[Lloyd Smale]

I shoot the 340 ballistic cast lfngc out of 44s it will stabilize but takes at least 1100 fps to keep it stable way out there. I can push it to 1200 in a strong gun but wont post the load. I would think anything much heavier isn't going to work well in a 44. If you want penetration though that bullet cast out of 5050 lyno/ww shot a 1200 took 3rd place in the penetration testing at the linebaugh seminar one year. I was in the company of 475 and 500s and max versions of both. 454s, 45 colts and even a 458 lott encore. There were also a half a dozen dangerous game stopping rifles there including my #1 458. Only loads that beat it were two different 475s and one of the rifles (I believe it was a 416 rem with solids but I'm not sure) It defineately puts the 44 into a "will take any animal" category.
i remember around 20+ years ago, i loaded up my ruger super redhawk(7.5" barrel) in 44 mag with a 200gr xtp with a heavy dose of w296 and did she kill the deer! i could shoot them and the 240gr xtp's all day long. now its a little(well alot!!!:-P) different. with only one hand(and arm) the recoil is what stops me, after about 5- 6 shots of the 200 - 240gr xtp with w296.

i wonder what the 405gr fpgc boolit does!!![smilie=l: i bet its not good for those of us one hander guys!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDc61sq-H-A

[44MAG#1]

No one has brought up that the Lyman #49 manual has data for a 300 case and Herco.
One will ask what has Herco got to do with Unique? Well since Herco is roughly a half grain slower than Unique that should give a thinking man an idea to be able to arrive at a starting load of Unique.
Lyman lists 9 gr of Herco as max. To be safe I would say with Unique no more than 8 gr. Then I would drop to 6.5 gr to start and work up watching for pressure signs and seeing what the loads will do accuracy wise.
If one gets the accuracy they want at fifty yards somewhere in the work up fine.

[Lloyd Smale]

yup ive never seen where you couldn't use unique data for herco. A little slower but that just gives you a few fps less and a bigger safety margin

[tdoyka]

thanks fellas, but i'll stay with my 250gr hp and unique. i wish i could take w296 and have the time of my life with 300+gr, but i know that recoil doesn't like the one hand/arm kinda guy:razz:.

[smilie=l: heck, i'd really love to try 405gr in my 44 mag[smilie=l:!!! one 405gr would be enough!!!