Three 44 Caliber Bullets

[44MAG#1]

167171

All three Hensley and Gibbs. First two from left #503 designs, third #326 design.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I like the looks of the one on the end right side

[Don Purcell]

44MAG#1, I remember back in the early 80's Elmer Keith mentioned that #326 bullet in one of his Gun Notes column. Later Ross Seyfried briefly talked about it in an article he wrote for Guns and Ammo when he was Hunting/Guiding in Africa. Thanks for the picture.

[Shuz]

What's the nominal weight of the #326?

[44MAG#1]

Will run 270 to 272 grains. Depending.

[Quickdraw4u]

I like the #503, looks like it would not have any cylinder/length issues. What is the as cast diameter and the usual weight?

[44MAG#1]

Never measured the as cast diameter both with the right alloy and depending on how hot the mold is will size slightly with a .430 size die. H&G molds were cut to just barley size with the "average" alloy with a .430 die.
Weight, as you know depends on alloy. With the "average" alloy 248 to 250 grains.
Getting ready to cast a few #326 bullets now.

[Don Purcell]

The #326 is a dead ringer for an NEI mold I have that weighs @ 265 grains with a .300 meplat.

[44MAG#1]

I have the NEI 429-260 mold and mine weighs slightly heavier than yours with W/W alloy on the average.

[44MAG#1]

Cast some of the #326 and they weighed 278 gr ave. from some real old W/W metal.
Have never had any trouble with OAL. Mag or FTBH Special.

[sixshot]

Very nice, I like all of those & hard to find, you're lucky we don't live closer or you'd have a break in.......... kidding!

Dick

[Don Purcell]

sixshot, Just call Ballisticast and they will make you one from 2 cavity to 8 or even maybe 10. Order the biggest one they make and then cast up all your alloy with it. Then after they cool, I repeat AFTER they cool, take off all your clothes and just wallow around in them for awhile. I do that occasionally for good therapy.

[376Steyr]

Are the two #503 supposed to be identical, or are they special order variations? They look like they have different size drive bands.

[44MAG#1]

"Are the two #503 supposed to be identical, or are they special order variations? They look like they have different size drive bands."

They are different. The first mold was the one on the left. The middle one is the one I got from them in the last.
Both are stamped 503.429. The one with the narrow front band is serial #1159-1. The other is serial #2740.

[44MAG#1]

167190

Another 44 cal bullet the LBT-LFN-GC 340 gr next to the H&G #326.

[youngmman]

I've shot the H&G 503 and the LBT 430 250 WFN for years with a BHN 14 Alloy and no GC. They both provide outstanding accuracy and hit hard on live targets and are loaded to about 1,100 FPS.

[44MAG#1]

167192

LBT 320 Keith next to the H&G #326

[44MAG#1]

167196

H&G # X503S 315 gr Keith next to a H&G #326.

[frank505]

The 326 shoots excellent at long range. Too bad they are just to long for my model 69. Somebody said to call ballisti cast. I'd rather have Noe make a run, we would actually get a mold.

[Thumbcocker]

Who are we to judge Don?

[Don Purcell]

frank505, Are there problems with getting molds from Ballisticast? I haven't heard anything and have gotten a few with no problems not that there is anything wrong with N.O.E.

[sixshot]

Actually I have plenty of 44 caliber moulds, including some from LBT & Miha & I've bought Ballasticast moulds for several years, all are great moulds. I'd still pilfer one of those H&G's.......

Dick

[Lloyd Smale]

they sure are nice molds! I cry when I think that ballistic cast is no more.
167171

All three Hensley and Gibbs. First two from left #503 designs, third #326 design.

[Mal Paso]

44MAG#1 Thanks, I've not seen most of the bullets you posted. My current favorite is a copy of the #503 with a wide front band.

NOE is coming out with a 277 grain Keith much like your #326 but with a .115" front band.

I got a BC #1103 mold after the group buy problems. It took a while but they did come through.

[smokeater]

Glad I stumbled on to this discussion as I was just pondering about bullet weights. I have seen a lot people use the term 240grs when talking about the Keith bullet, but the Lyman 429421 that I stupidly got rid of throwed a bullet when sized .430 and lubed ran around 250-254 grs. A buddy of mine has a mold by either Accurate or NOE that is based on the Keith bullet that weighs in around 260 +/-. The RCBS 44-250K also runs around 255-260grs +/-. My dilemma is, do I use the 7.5gr Skeeter load or any of the other Brian Pierce loads for the Ruger Blackhawk 44Spec Flattop or do I need to reduce according to actual bullet weight? Thanks for any help/solutions.

[frank505]

As far as Lloyd and I know, bsllisticast is closed.

[Don Purcell]

That is surprising as I was on the phone with them Wednesday troubleshooting my bullet sizer but didn't ask anything about mold production though, just assumed they were still in production.

[Don Purcell]

Mal Paso, my first set of molds from the original Hensley and Gibbs company was in 1979 and took 11 months. I don't recall how long Ballisticast took to make a couple of matched pairs of molds but I don't think it was a long wait compared to some group buys by a long shot.

[376Steyr]

As far as Lloyd and I know, bsllisticast is closed.

Ballisti-cast has changed owners several times over the years. A couple of years ago the then-operators ran it into the ground, and it changed hands then. The company website is still active, and it has a couple of phone numbers on it. I don't personally know if the new operators are making moulds now.

[376Steyr]

Glad I stumbled on to this discussion as I was just pondering about bullet weights. I have seen a lot people use the term 240grs when talking about the Keith bullet, but the Lyman 429421 that I stupidly got rid of throwed a bullet when sized .430 and lubed ran around 250-254 grs. A buddy of mine has a mold by either Accurate or NOE that is based on the Keith bullet that weighs in around 260 +/-. The RCBS 44-250K also runs around 255-260grs +/-. My dilemma is, do I use the 7.5gr Skeeter load or any of the other Brian Pierce loads for the Ruger Blackhawk 44Spec Flattop or do I need to reduce according to actual bullet weight? Thanks for any help/solutions.

As I recall, Skeeter's 429421 load was based on 250 grain bullets. My assorted "Keith" (and that is a whole different can of worms) moulds drop in the 260-265 range, and I shoot them with no qualms over 7.5 Unique in my Flattop. I do drop back to 7.0 grains for use in my S&W 696, which is slightly fragile compared to the little tank that the Ruger is.

[Mal Paso]

I bought my Ballisti-Cast mold after the group buy problems. Bill Sands? took over from his son and although slower than what they said I got a Quality Iron Mold. I think the father was a stand up guy. The son may still get there, he was in over his head. People don't learn to swim until they get over their head. Run a Small Business some time and see how easy it is.

BC appears to be in business and the mold I got says they know what they are doing.

[sixshot]

When I was buying Ballasticast moulds Peter Neiss owned it, haven't bought one in a long time.

Dick

[smokeater]

376Steyr, Thanks for helping answer my question. Seems like each different brand of the "Keith" bullet varies somewhat by each mfg'er. I forgot to also mention, I only load mine to the Level One loading as it produces excellent accuracy and I limit my handgun shot to 50 yds and in. Have you had any experience with the RCBS 44-250K mold? I sold my 429421 mold and am looking for a replacement. Don't know how a heavier bullet (255 - 265grs) would shoot in my 44Spec using the Level One loadings.

[376Steyr]

376Steyr, Thanks for helping answer my question. Seems like each different brand of the "Keith" bullet varies somewhat by each mfg'er. I forgot to also mention, I only load mine to the Level One loading as it produces excellent accuracy and I limit my handgun shot to 50 yds and in. Have you had any experience with the RCBS 44-250K mold? I sold my 429421 mold and am looking for a replacement. Don't know how a heavier bullet (255 - 265grs) would shoot in my 44Spec using the Level One loadings.

I have one of the earlier RCBS 44-250K moulds. The box says it is supposed to be .429 diameter, and darned if it doesn't drop right at .429. The currently advertised ones are listed at .430. I really like mine, as it was as close to the "original Keith" 429421 as was available then. It drops at around 262 grains with my alloy. The RCBS blocks are readily available from the big mail order firms. It would be a dandy choice.
Another choice would be a mould from NOE, a smaller firm that got their start here. Here is their version of the 429421: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=37_201&osCsid=gh6kab4mocclba7qjjbub5ed41
NOE moulds are of excellent quality, the prices are quite reasonable for what you get, and best of all they will only sell what they have in inventory with no nonsense about backorders or wait times.
One last thing to think about. The heavier the bullet, the higher it will strike on the target. Go too heavy, with too much velocity, and your Ruger rear sight will probably run out of adjustment. Mine is pretty much bottomed out with 265 grs over 7.5 of Unique.

[beagle]

The interesting story behind the #326 and its companion #328 (317.5 gr) is that they were designed by Elmer. Lyman would have gotten the nod on the designs but Elmer was PO'd at them at the time because they modified the 429421 from his design. In one of his books, he tells of testing these two designs briefly in the add-on section in the back. I have both and my #326 runs 278.5 grains. I have shot both extensively over the years since I obtained them in 1990 before H & G discontinued making moulds. The #326 shoots well and for that matter so does the #328 but the latter seems to be too much for anything I'll encounter here in KY. Both are fun to shoot old refrigerators with. I started shooting them in a 4" Model 29 with a lot of WW296. The muzzle blast on that load was awesome. If you're in need of a heavy .44 Mag bullet you can't go wrong on either. Regardless of who makes them, they're true Keith designs./beagle

[44MAG#1]

Beagle,

I think you need to seriously reconsider your idea on the H&G #326 mold.

[Don Purcell]

I remember years ago I shot some groups at 100 yards with Keith bullets from my first H&G mold bought around 1978-79. The design at the time had a front band that was narrow compared to the other two and a fairly large base band. With 18 grains of Hercules 2400 from sitting position I shot three groups from two different Model 29s and none of the groups went over 2 1/2 inches. Needless to say I had one of those very good days that only come along occasionally, at least for me. Nowadays I'm happy to even SEE the target at 100 yards.

[cainttype]

I remember years ago I shot some groups at 100 yards with Keith bullets from my first H&G mold bought around 1978-79. The design at the time had a front band that was narrow compared to the other two and a fairly large base band. With 18 grains of Hercules 2400 from sitting position I shot three groups from two different Model 29s and none of the groups went over 2 1/2 inches. Needless to say I had one of those very good days that only come along occasionally, at least for me. Nowadays I'm happy to even SEE the target at 100 yards.

Three groups, with a Keith design, from two different Mod 29s, sitting, at 100 yards... and no group was over 2 1/2 inches (didn't mention open sights or scoped, but still...)
I would call that pretty impressive, to say the least... on ANY day.
I'd buy the beer to see somebody do that, even cook the BBQ... I've had many "good days", but not any quite like that. :)

[white eagle]

Nice boolits for sure I have the Miha version one of my faves
mine come out heavy,heavier than 240 and I use Skeeter's
load in my flat top

[Don Purcell]

cainttype, I hate to say it was with open sights. I use to have 20/15 vision but like I said I was having a very good day and back then I was shooting almost every day or every other day and trigger time makes a big difference. But to do that on demand, no way. I remember back about 1975-76 we were having a cookout cooking a big pot of beans, ham and cornbread. Across a field was a steel plate about 18 inches high by about 10 inches wide hanging on a chain at 200 yards. A couple of guys were shooting at it with '03 Springfields with cast bullets I believe and had not connected. I had stirred the beans, walked over and drew my 8 3/8 Model 29 loaded with 250 Keith and 2400, guessed on the hold over and happened to hit it with the first shot. Put it back in the holster, went back over and stirred the beans again. The shot wasn't important, it was luck. It was knowing when to QUIT.

[cainttype]

I understand completely, Don. I've been an avid handgunner for about 40 years, and have had more than my share of "amazing" connections. Knowing when to quit is a VERY desireable trait... More fun to leave'em in disbelief than to ruin a good story for later.
That said, multiple groups, from multiple firearms (M29s, in fact), using cast bullet designs not exactly regarded as super-accurate, is no fluke. Add sitting positioned and open sights to the equation and it definitely becomes a memory-maker.
I am considered by most to be an extremely good pistol shot. Anyone that has devoted the time to excell at that game certainly respects seeing those skills demonstrated by others, and I'll be the first to admit that I enjoy seeing anyone demonstrate exceptional shooting skills.
I'd have very much enjoyed being present to witness your feat, all kidding aside. Like you said, those kinda days are special, and they never seem to come around often enough. :)

[Don Purcell]

They seem to get less and less awfully fast. You don't think age has anything to do with it do you?

[cainttype]

I doubt it....

I would've replied sooner, but I couldn't remember where I put my reading glasses. :)