30-40 Krag

[TXGunNut]

A very old (first model) 1895 Winny followed me home recently and I decided I wasn't going to load for it. Then I discovered factory ammo was nigh $40 box. Dies showed up today, ordered NOE's version of the 311299 today because the 360-230 is on sale this week. ;-) Figured I better jump on both while he had them in stock and save a little on freight.:cbpour:
1895 is chambered in 30 US and I have no experience with this round. I was tempted by the NOE's 311284 clone but he didn't have one in the configuration I wanted. Besides, I have a beautiful 30-06 that I haven't converted to CB's and I figure the 311299 can do double duty with that cartridge. Cases are elusive but should find some before long. I'm trying to avoid using 303 brass. I'll be searching 30-40 threads this weekend and I have a good selection of 4350 (AA, IMR, Hodgdon) class powders and plenty of 3031 and 4895.
Any hints or thread suggestions? 30-06 is a hunting rifle so will be casting hunting boolits even though the 1895 is unlikely to go hunting. Thinking air-cooled 50-50 for a start, both bbls have 1/10 twist rate and my velocity goal for both cartridges is 1900-2000 fps.

[Kraschenbirn]

FWIW, the Lee 309-200 over 36.5 gr IMR 4350 produces just over 1900 fps and 2" 100-yd groups from my 1898 Krag carbine. I really envy your catch on that '95 'cause there's one with a 'not-for-sale' tag that I've been coveting for the last couple years. It's missing a part and the dealer who's got it won't sell 'as is'...he took it in trade and figures he can get a lot more for it once he finds a replacement.

Bill

[tdoyka]

a 165gr ranch dog with a load of h4198(25.5gr) does wonders for deer. i think it going from my 30-40 krag at around 1800fps.

i cringe at $40/box too. i've been looking for awhile for 30-40 brass, if you find some please tell me where!!!

[smokeywolf]

An article by Glenn Fryxell may be of help to you.

http://www.lasc.us/FryxellCB30-40krag.htm

[onceabull]

Mr,Fryxell's article refers to comments made by Charles Graff..In my experience what Mr.Graff says,one can take to the bank... Onceabull

[Hamish]

Mr,Fryxell's article refers to comments made by Charles Graff..In my experience what Mr.Graff says,one can take to the bank... Onceabull

You just said a mouth full right there,,,,,,

[TXGunNut]

That's EXACTLY what I was looking for, Smokeywolf! Very good article. Thanks. Double-checked the dimensions of the mould I ordered from Al, I think his version of the 311299 will work quite well in the 1895 and my 30-06. Made a note of Glenn's alloy of choice, will save my 50/50 alloy for other endeavours. Still no brass, looks like some ammo is in the pipeline as a couple of sellers are expecting it within a month. May have to grit my teeth and wander down to the gun show in Ft Worth this weekend.

[smokeywolf]

onceabull and Hamish are right on about Charles. He's one of the go-to guys on this forum and at least one other, for detailed knowledge on the 30-40 cartridge and the rifles originally chambered for it.

[Char-Gar]

Well, you guys are stroking my ego so much, I feel duty bound to chime in on this issue :oops:

The 95 Winchester and the 30-40 rounds is at or near the top of the list of favorite rifles and cartridges. The 30-40 round is a dandy cast bullet round for all the reasons Glen sets out.

I have a 1898 vintage Winchester 95 and a newer Japchester 95 both in 30-40. They are both good rifles. Reloading for them is pretty straightforward with no particular secrets or tricks. Most any good 30 caliber cast bullets that fits the rifle throat and barrel will give good results.

I have never been one to throw about the "slug the bore" mantra, but in the case of these vintage Winchester, it is a good idea. The groove diameter of my 1898 vintage rifles is .312. This is not uncommon for these rifles. Some folks have postulated that these were left over barrels from the Russian contracts rifles chambered for 7.64 Long Russian round. My Japchester goes the traditional .308 in the grooves.

Hold the pressures on these old rifles to 40 to 42 K PSI, as the action while stronger than many leverguns, is not in the bolt gun class. Parts are made from unobtainium so treat these old girls with respect.

Stay safe out there you guys...Charles

[onceabull]

Among the 30/40's I still play with ftt are a Remington-Lee Sporter,and a Sporterized P-14 Enfield rebarreled to 30/40 Ackley Imp...Had another Imp.version in a Ruger #3,but someone wanted to pay enough to take it away...still look to replace it s'day ,and one or more of the 1895 leverguns that went away over the years.. I suggest checking with Reed's about some brass,as he still lists reasonably priced custom loaded rounds in new brass..Onceabull

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, Charles. I read that about the Winchester barrels recently but forgot all about it. Hadn't planned on slugging this one but I guess I better find a ball and push it through. Mould came in today. Guess I'll order some 303 Brit cases and get this party started.

[rintinglen]

A Powder that works really well in the 30-40 is WW-748. I got 2300 ft per second with minimal leading and a 311-291 over a dis-remembered charge that put 5 in 2 1/2 inches at 100 yards with iron sights. I keep meaning to take it hunting, but I would have to work up a load with a non lead bullet, (Damn those buzzards in Sacrermento.)

[frnkeore]

In my load developement for my .310 groove Krag, the best load between 18.0 and 24.0 gr of 4759 was 18.5, using Rem 2 1/2 primers. It yielded a 1.5" group @ 100, using the 311413U bullet.

Frank

[TXGunNut]

Wow, Frank. That load is way off the beaten path, at least for me. I almost never see 4759 around here, thinking 2400 might get me close. Was thinking 18grs is in the right neighborhood. How did you come up with that primer?

[TenTea]

IMR 4759 = discontinued

[NorthMoccasin]

In my M-1895 30 US, Lymans 311291, 311041 and 311299 all shoot very well. 12.0 Unique for plinking, and 30.0 3031 for hunting. I use a 311041 HP for deer hunting. To me, my 1895 with it's Lyman side lever peep sight is the ultimate lever rifle! I just wish I could find an affordable 38/72 or 40/72!

[TXGunNut]

Hmmm...loaded a few "try" loads with 20grs 5744 under the 312299. Barrel was not a .312. Could be an interesting range day tomorrow. Loaded a few 312299's into 30 Govt cases as well. Couldn't help it; 30 US and 30 Govt. What's not to like?

[Scharfschuetze]

My 30/40 is an 1898 Krag rifle. I'd love to have an 1895 Winchester in the calibre, but for now the Krag is certainly great fun at the range.

My favorite loads for the 30/40 use a pretty heavy boolit with the 314299 sized to .313" being the ring leader for accuracy. The 30/40 is the only round that I have that prefers 5744 powder over 4759, but it shoots groups half the size of all other powders using it. Odd results for me, but repeatable day in and day out.

With the heavy 311299 or 314299 I use 24 grains of 5744 powder. The load averages 1831 fps out of my Krag's long barrel with an Sd of 12 and an extreme spread of only 35 for a 10 shot string. Accuracy out of the old Krag is a solid 2 MOA.

[TXGunNut]

Thanks for that info, Scharf. Will put that in my notebook. Those are some pretty impressive chrono numbers, I guess 5744 just may be worth the extra few dollars after all. Had a bottle on the shelf for a few years, good to get some use out of it finally. I chose 20 as a starting point after checking MV's Leverguns book. Haven't loaded for a new cartridge in awhile and it was difficult to get a consensus from all my books and online sources for a good starting point or even a good powder choice.

[iron brigade]

My Krag load: 15 grains of blue dot under the 311299. Wonderful cast bullet load.

[TXGunNut]

I come with sad news; I bought the 1895 as a collector piece and it appears it's all I got. I slugged the barrel and the muzzle end is quite tight but grooves are very shallow. Bottom line, the first round @ fifty yards hit sideways. Next two rounds unaccounted for. Bummer.
Still studying on this a bit. I'm really interested in this cartridge, almost bought an 1898 Springfield custom rifle (very nice custom stock!) tonight just for a chance at a better bore.
I'm kicking around a .314 boolit but pretty sure that won't help. As I said, I think I just need to study on this a bit more. May have to sacrifice another buckshot round for slug material. If it wasn't for the collector value it would be off to JES to return as a 35-40 or whatever he calls it.
Rough day at the range!

[Scharfschuetze]

Sorry to hear that TX. I hope that you find an answer with the larger diameter boolit. I have an 1898 Krag and a 1903 Springfield with a slightly oversize bores and they will shoot boolits sized to .313" pretty well.

[onceabull]

TXGunNut: I don't recall if your 1895 in 30/40 has a load of special features as issued,but if not,I'd say it has somewhat limited collector value...Assuming that, and what all Jesse O. has available, anything from 8mm/US Krag,through 33 Krag and on to the 35 Krag should yield you a fine hunting/et al rifle..In days of youth I saw more than one old 1895 that spent some time in Russia,that had ruined barrels replaced with 35 caliber Krags..one had an "Ackley improved" Chamber...Onceabull

[TXGunNut]

I think the only feature is sling swivels but it's an 1896 vintage (flat sided) first model and serial number is under 1500. Not really sure how much collector value it actually has but I'd rather not modify it.
I fondled a beautiful custom 1898 last night but just couldn't get interested. Has an old Unertl scope that's at least as interesting as the rifle.

[onceabull]

Every other thing equal, than the "flatside" is a "value added" item for a way out there collector,so your thoughts are well founded...Onceabull

[slam45]

TXgunnut,

i have a rifle like yours, a flat side that went through a flood and was then retired to a barn for a few decades... it was given to me, i drug it along as a wall hanger for another 10 years... then i had it repaired... no collector value, but with new wood and the rust removed and re blued, and the action repaired, it is a shooter again after forty years of dust collecting... my barrel is rough, with pits along one side, but it will give 2.5 to 4" at 100yds with a 215gr fp sized to 0.310 over 20gr of 2400... it dose look as if the barrel is cleaning up from shooting and cleaning and it's still improving... it loves long, big, boolits! they are wonderful rifles....

[6mm win lee]

I come with sad news; I bought the 1895 as a collector piece and it appears it's all I got. I slugged the barrel and the muzzle end is quite tight but grooves are very shallow. Bottom line, the first round @ fifty yards hit sideways. Next two rounds unaccounted for. Bummer.
Still studying on this a bit. I'm really interested in this cartridge, almost bought an 1898 Springfield custom rifle (very nice custom stock!) tonight just for a chance at a better bore.
I'm kicking around a .314 boolit but pretty sure that won't help. As I said, I think I just need to study on this a bit more. May have to sacrifice another buckshot round for slug material. If it wasn't for the collector value it would be off to JES to return as a 35-40 or whatever he calls it.
Rough day at the range!

I feel your pain. I bought an 1895 musket years ago only to find the chamber was severely ringed. Time marches on and I decided I did not spend a few thousand to see it sit in the corner looking pretty. I decided to have it rebarreled so I could shoot it. Looking on the net I found Turnbull Mfg who works on winchesters and do gun restorations. Getting a new barrel is not cheap but I think it is worth it to get an old gun back on the line.

http://www.turnbullmfg.com/

It is due back to me the middle of June. Will shoot you some pictures for a post rebarrel report if you want.

[Tedly]

Have an 1898 US sporter , cast are #111284 & C312-185-1R...also a Ruger No.3 ; cast loads are 20.5gr. AA5744 , jacketed loads also shoot well

[Quickdraw4u]

I have an 1898 Krag with a 30+inch barrel in a cut-down, carbine-like stock. I keep poking that long barrel into things. I am considering having the barrel cut down, re-crowned and the front sight put back on. Any suggestions as to what a good barrel length would be (ballistically, aesthetically, and maneuverability)?

[Char-Gar]

I have an 1898 Krag with a 30+inch barrel in a cut-down, carbine-like stock. I keep poking that long barrel into things. I am considering having the barrel cut down, re-crowned and the front sight put back on. Any suggestions as to what a good barrel length would be (ballistically, aesthetically, and maneuverability)?

I have three cut down Krag rifles. One is 22", another is 24" and the last one is 25". Of the three I prefer the 22" barrel. Here is a pic. It wears an old Pacific receiver sight and a Redfield Sourdough in a 1903 Springfield front bank. I have had this rifle since 1960, killing my first deer with it that year.

[TXGunNut]

I like that little rifle, Char-Gar. I think I can see why you've kept it around.