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View Full Version : "baked" my first lube cake & all I can say is.....



ssn vet
05-11-2008, 09:00 AM
I want a Lubri-Sizer!!!!

what a PITA...

I flared out a case and cut the head off to use as a removal tool, because when I punched them through, half the wax came off half the bullets.

Do most lubes require heating to use in a lube/sizer?

What models should I be considering?

Why do these darn things cost so much? It looks like it's going to cost me as much as I have into my press.

I've got to get to scheming up a way to pay for one, as I'm officially "cut off" from spending more $ on my addiction (I mean hobby) by SWMBO.

Hmmmmm

dubber123
05-11-2008, 09:16 AM
There are many lubes that do not require heat to work in a lubrisizer. Making your own lube is a reasonable, (and cheap) option. Watching the auction sites or putting a "wanted" ad on swapping and selling here will be your best bet.

Of the in and out sizers, you pretty much have the Lyman and the RCBS models. I consider the RCBS the better built of the 2. That said, I have 2 Lymans, and they work fine. They both take the same dies.

Many will say only a Star sizer will do, but you won't likely get one for anywheres near as cheap as a Lyman or RCBS. I paid 50$ for my last Lyman. Good luck.

Dale53
05-11-2008, 09:20 AM
I pan lube large, soft bullets for Black Powder Cartridge Rifles. I use both the RCBS and Lyman lube/sizers for "normal" rifle bullets. I use the Star lube/sizer for pistol and revolver bullets.

Pan lubing can be quite efficient but FIRST you have to learn how. Here is my Photo Bucket site that has my article on "Pan Lubing, a Piece of Cake":

http://s269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/

You can go "full size" with these images then print them off (there are five pages of pictures and text). If you follow these directions explicitly you WILL be successful in pan lubing and also be pretty dern efficient at it, also.

Dale53

44man
05-11-2008, 03:06 PM
SSN, you never said what caliber you are shooting. It sounds like the lube you have is way too hard and brittle for ANY use.

JSnover
05-11-2008, 03:14 PM
+1 for pan lubing (nice job, Dale!).
I keep telling myself I should get one of them newfangled lubrisizers but I just don't need the production capacity.

454PB
05-11-2008, 03:28 PM
When you consider that only maybe 1 in 200 handloaders cast their own boolits, you can see that lubrisizers are a small demand tool. Since that makes it a low demand "specialty" item, it raises the cost per unit to manufacture. I can see the day when Lee decides to market a conventional lubrisizer at half the cost of we we have now. When Lee decided to produce boolit moulds, it introduced a lot of people to casting.

ssn vet
05-11-2008, 03:54 PM
SSN, you never said what caliber you are shooting. It sounds like the lube you have is way too hard and brittle for ANY use.

WW molded into a Lee 312-155...

snapped on the gas checks and did a mini-cake (only 50 bullets) with 50/50 NRA formula......definately not to hard...yet quite a few "shed" half of their lube when pushed through base end first.

the ones I cookie cuttered out with my improv. tool are fine.....but as said, it seem like a pita.

maybe I didn't let them sit long enough, though the cake seemed hard.

leftiye
05-11-2008, 04:04 PM
You could put a little (maybe 1 tbsp/tube) Lanolin in it to make it better, and stick better. Maybe 1 oz. of Carnauba wax too (might be too much, maybe 1/2 oz.).

RU shooter
05-11-2008, 05:57 PM
How long did you let them sit in the oven with the heat on? Just heating till the lube melts usually gives poor results for me seems like the boolits and lube need to get about the same temp. the lube sticks better in the grooves, I usually let mine cook for about 1/2 hr or so.

13Echo
05-11-2008, 08:06 PM
SSN Vet,

Follow Dale 53s article. It's the way I do it and as far as I'm concerned it beats using a lubrisizer for my BPCR bullets. If your lube is cracking out of the grooves it may be you've let the cake cool too much. It should still be warm to touch. Also if the lube has been overheated it won't panlube well or provide good lubrication when fired. Melt the lube in double boiler and you won't overheat. Otherwise the NRA Beeswax-Alox formula should pan lube nicely. As suggested you might try adding a bit of anhydrous lanolin. Preheating the bullets in the pan with a hairdryer may also help. Unlike Dale I haven't had much luck trying to break the lube cake into smaller parts when ejecting the bullets. I always end up cracking along a line of bullets.

Jerry Liles

Jerry Liles

docone31
05-11-2008, 08:45 PM
My first couple of pan lubes were a mess. I got the results I wanted when I preheated the bullets, then poured the wax in the pan. I let the wax sit over night with the pan upside down. In the morning, I bap the bottom of the pan and the cake pretty much slides off. From there I push the bullets base first out of the cake. The few missing lube in spots, I keep a small piece of cake handy to rub the wax onto the lube groove where the wax/lube is missing.
It is fairly simple once you have broken through. Like anything, it gets better with experience.
Sounds like an unsympathetic response, but, I felt the same way. The first few cakes were a disaster. Fallen bullets, non-lubed grooves, and just a plain mess.
It gets better. It really does.
I preheat the oven to 185#, let it sit for a bit, pour the wax, let it sit for a bit, then turn off the oven. When the colour of the wax gets lighter, I remove the pan, let it sit. When it is comfortable to pick up, I put it upside down over a towel. Next morning, I bap it.
I also go slow pushing the bullets out of the cake. Too fast and the lube seems to stay with the cake.

Down South
05-11-2008, 10:17 PM
I pan lube all of my boolits. It took me several times to (start) getting it right. Now, I have very few rejects. Pan lubing like anything else gets easier as you go.

ssn vet
05-11-2008, 10:34 PM
I think I put the bullets to close together, as the rows cracked open and pulled the lube out of those bullets groove.

I printed out and read the article from Dale53's post.....thanks for that....

Does the lube ever really dry.....

It's been a day or two now and the lube (Javelina brand, 50% Alox 2138F - 50% Beeswax) is still gummy.

I went ahead tonight and tumble lubed a batch with Lee liquid alox. I can't say I'm thrilled with the results of that either. Do most of you guys cut this with mineral spirits? or use it as is? Do you have to tumble the whole bullet? or can you hold it by the pointy end and dip them?

ssn vet
05-11-2008, 10:38 PM
Do gas checked bullets have to be sized?

I'm getting set up to shoot my first batch of home cast bullets (312-155 mold) and at the lube ring, the bullets measure .312"

After I snap on the gas check by hand, they measure .320" on the gas check.

Am I correct to presume that these need to be sized before loading?

docone31
05-11-2008, 10:41 PM
Hehehe, ain't it fun?
It sounds like you might stiffen up the lube a little. I had to to play some with mine. I made a bunch. It started small, then I added too much beeswax, too much vasline, too much beeswax, the carnuba floated in a glob, on, and on, and on. I got a good batch now.
Using the Lee sizer is a mess. Does a great job though. Only had one GC pop off on me. That was base flash more than wax build up.
With GCs, I do run them through a sizer, even if it is the same diameter as the casting. Seems to level the GC with the bullet itself.

garandsrus
05-11-2008, 11:59 PM
SSN Vet,

Yes, the gas checks need to be sized/crimped on the boolit. A Lee push-through sizer works great and is cheap.

I had problems when I tried loading some boolits with a gas check and without sizing. The gas check would expand the case neck and if the gas check was below the neck, the boolit would fall into the case.

John

Dale53
05-12-2008, 12:06 AM
Thanks for the kind words, fellows and gals (can't forget the gals:mrgreen:). Nearly everything I have learned to do took effort. Pan lubing successfully is in the details. That is why I was so specific. When you get "up to speed" you'll find that it is an excellent way to lube bullets. Not nearly as slow as your first efforts will have you believing.

Dale53

Goatlips
05-12-2008, 12:39 AM
Dale53,

Great article. When I started Pan Lubing I looked for information like you present, but could find very little with the pictures I needed to clear things up for me. When I got pretty good at pan lubing (at least for my Black Powder Cowboy purposes), I put this on my site:

http://goatlipstips.cas-town.com/panlubing.html

Hope this may contribute to our sport.

Goatlips

Dale53
05-12-2008, 01:20 AM
Goatlips;
Thanks for the kind words. I was remiss in not mentioning your great web site. Between the two articles, anyone interested should certainly be able to find the information he/she needs.

Dale53

JSnover
05-12-2008, 07:47 AM
I think I put the bullets to close together, as the rows cracked open and pulled the lube out of those bullets groove.

I printed out and read the article from Dale53's post.....thanks for that....

Does the lube ever really dry.....

It's been a day or two now and the lube (Javelina brand, 50% Alox 2138F - 50% Beeswax) is still gummy.

I went ahead tonight and tumble lubed a batch with Lee liquid alox. I can't say I'm thrilled with the results of that either. Do most of you guys cut this with mineral spirits? or use it as is? Do you have to tumble the whole bullet? or can you hold it by the pointy end and dip them?

I don't care much for LLA. I've had nice results with Emmerts (50% beeswax, 40% crisco, 10% canola oil by weight). Set the boolits at least half inch apart and let them set over the heat until they're too hot to touch. Don't let them cool too long. I punch mine through when the wax is completely solid but still warm. The lube hardens a little after a few weeks but I haven't had it get really dry and it's not sticky like LLA. Smells better, too.

44man
05-12-2008, 08:57 AM
Well, now that I know it's 50-50, it is not too hard. So it just boils down to technique. Follow what the other fellows say and you will be OK.
To tell the truth, I would size the gas check portion ONLY, maybe by pushing just far (upside down) enough in a Lee size die and then pushing it back out before pouring hot lube around the boolits. If they fit a little loose, I would worry about lube sneaking in between the check and base. I use a Lyman lube sizer and just run the boolits in far enough to crimp the checks if I am going to pan lube.
If the checks are a tight fit then no need to worry and they can be sized after lubing. But either way, checks must be crimped.
I use Felix lube for hand lubing. I just squeeze it in the grooves with my fingers, then run them through a Lee die. If they are PB, I use an oversize die just to remove excess lube. For the gas checks I step down a little in sizing or use my lube sizer with Lar's carnauba red. I don't think I do anything the same for all the different boolits.
You should see the mess I make when I hand lube! [smilie=1:

ssn vet
05-12-2008, 09:24 AM
sounds like a great application for a toaster oven.....

I may need to hit up some garage sales and seek one out.

I guess this is where the "fun" of expirimentation takes off.

I'm not to shy to experiment, but I much prefer it when my experiments are a success.

:Fire: