Little PO'ed about my new to me H&G #50BB mold

[Mytmousemalibu]

So here a couple weeks ago I was browsing Ebay for vintage reloading gear as I have a soft spot for old stuff. I came across a listing for a Hensley & Gibbs #50BB, 4-cav, with handles & box in good condition, listed as a San Diego production mold. My preference was for an early mold from the San Diego shop as I like the historical background in things. The seller was asking $225+$18 shipping, as a Buy It Now. I made an offer for $200 and it was accepted so the transaction was made and I got it here a couple weeks ago. Very cool old box with original H&G label on it, addressed to the San D location. Mold is in pretty good shape, not rusty, nice cavities, just some patina, same for the handles. But to my disappointment the mold is roll stamped clearly enough, Murphy, Oregon and quite obviously it is not stamped San Diego. It is an earlier Oregon mold as the mold numbers are hand stamped. I didn't know this at the time of purchase, not till I got it but since I have been wanting to add an actual H&G mold to my meager collection and I really have been wanting a #50 to feed my Revo fever with, I bought it. I don't know if I overpaid with consideration to what was advertised and what I got. It was important to me that I was getting an early mold and It pisses me off that I didn't get what was advertised. I had sent the seller a message the day I got it inquiring why there was a mismatch and have got no response. The seller was pretty quick to respond when I sent the offer in and also a reply to my thank you for accepting message. But not a peep since I got it. He just got another that was a little more to the point. I hate to have to possibly send it back or make a claim and loose it as it is a very nice mold but I don't like being taken advantage of either.

If the $200 for it was well worth it anyways, maybe i'll drop it and carry on but I don't really know if that's fair price or what. Maybe I just need some cheese with my whine... Still aggravating....

What do you guys think?

[runfiverun]

well it is the most common one.
and it was about twice what I see them go for.

if it casts good boolits I'd just use it and move on.
lesson learned about e-bay.

[Mytmousemalibu]

well it is the most common one.
and it was about twice what I see them go for.

if it casts good boolits I'd just use it and move on.
lesson learned about e-bay.

Damn, well that's not what I was hoping to hear but like you said, lesson learned. It was about what most of the H&G's that were posted were going for at the time, figured it was in the ball park. Shoulda done a little more checking on the going rate.

[Mk42gunner]

Not much you can do about it now; at least you got a decent mold, even if it isn't as advertised.

From what you say, you would have a hard time getting your money from the scam artist, um I mean seller.

Learn your lesson, leave him some nasty feedback and move on.

Robert

[Mytmousemalibu]

Not much you can do about it now; at least you got a decent mold, even if it isn't as advertised.

From what you say, you would have a hard time getting your money from the scam artist, um I mean seller.

Learn your lesson, leave him some nasty feedback and move on.

Robert

I have managed to get my hands on some pretty good deals and great items off of the site but there are occasions that discourage me from shopping on there. Unless this dude responds in couple days, which why would he, he's been paid, he'll get a nastygram feedback and warning to any potential customers that come his way.

[osteodoc08]

Well, it was not as advertised.

The question you have to ask, is the hassle worth the $75-100 and the loss of a decent mold?

To me, I'd keep it, love it and use it and be extra careful and request additional pictures
from the seller if needed to completely ID a mold next go round.

[lightman]

I also wanted to add a H&G mold to my collection. I did some research and watched them on E-bay for a long while. Most of the ones that I was interested in had iffy pictures or vague descriptions. I finally bought 2 from a member on here for a fair price, and he even shipped before he received my payment!

It sucks that yours was not as described but I bet it works great. I would probably leave feed back for the guy that describes your experience and move on. I bet you will love that mold!

[William Yanda]

Appears to me clearly "not as described". If you like the mold, request an adjustment from the seller, $100 or so. I believe Ebay conflict resolution would let you return the mold for a full refund plus shipping both ways. Just send them a photo of the OR stamp.
Bill

[w5pv]

So far I have gotten all the items I have ordered as advertised,I know that there are bad vendors and I have read descriptions that told me the seller didnot know what he was talking about.A little scrutinizing at time will keep you out of trouble

[OptimusPanda]

If you mark the item as not as described and ask for a refund there isn't much the seller can do to prevent you from getting your money back. Happened to me once where they basically "retail rented" something. Buyer protection are vastly better than seller protections oh eBay.

[waltherboy4040]

I would open a dispute about it being not as described and negotiate a deal for money back.

[OS OK]

Just give that 'overpriced' mold a nickname…something akin to a wife or girlfriend…a name that leaves you with a nice thought and a sweet taste in your mouth…Liken to a good woman, it was a little expensive, but it is 'fit for service…with a smile!'

OS OK …:bigsmyl2:

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Very cool old box with original H&G label on it, addressed to the San D location.

Either the seller is shifty or an idiot.
If I were in your situation, If you don't get the response you desire, I wouldn't waste the time (and energy) to open a ebay dispute, I'd just keep the mold and leave feedback as you describe, "he'll get a nastygram feedback and warning to any potential customers that come his way." and then I'd move on, and enjoy the mold.


edited: I didn't see where you've cast it yet? I'm assuming it casts like a dream, like most H&G molds. If you haven't cast with it yet, I surely would...if you don't like how it casts, then I'd surely open a dispute with ebay.

.

[floydboy]

Like Optimus said above. Buyer protection is much better on Ebay than Seller protection. They will get into his paypal acct and refund your money. I have no problem opening disputes when I buy something that turns out not to be as described. Usually I'll ask for a partial refund if it's something I can live with or want. That has usually worked for me. There was only one time I asked for a refund and the seller refused. Ebay sent my money back plus shipping both ways. It didn't take long either. It's really not that big of a hassle.

I would say $100 is a decent price for a 4 cav in very good condition. Like someone said above that model is about the most popular one they made. I'd ask the guy for a partial refund of $100 and you'll keep it. If not tell him you want to ship it back for a full refund including your shipping cost both ways. All he can do is say no. You can proceed with the Ebay resolution center after that if you want a full refund.

If your like me every time you look at it you'll be reminded it's not what I really want.

Good Luck....Floyd

[Mytmousemalibu]

Thanks for all the advise guys! Well, I'll be darned, the seller replied to my more direct message, guess he didn't notice the 1st one I sent right after it arrived. He seemed apologetic and he missed the Oregon stamp on the mold but is willing to make it right. He's offering a full refund/return or sending me back $50 If I want to keep it. I'm surprised I got a response, I was figuring on a deadbeat seller. That makes it a little more tough now, it is a really good condition mold. Maybe I'll go take it for a quick test drive and see how it casts. Either way, I want to have a #50BB and preference to a 4-cav as I read they tend to produce more accurate bullets or so I hear.

[SSGOldfart]

So here a couple weeks ago I was browsing Ebay for vintage reloading gear as I have a soft spot for old stuff. I came across a listing for a Hensley & Gibbs #50BB, 4-cav, with handles & box in good condition, listed as a San Diego production mold. My preference was for an early mold from the San Diego shop as I like the historical background in things. The seller was asking $225+$18 shipping, as a Buy It Now. I made an offer for $200 and it was accepted so the transaction was made and I got it here a couple weeks ago. Very cool old box with original H&G label on it, addressed to the San D location. Mold is in pretty good shape, not rusty, nice cavities, just some patina, same for the handles. But to my disappointment the mold is roll stamped clearly enough, Murphy, Oregon and quite obviously it is not stamped San Diego. It is an earlier Oregon mold as the mold numbers are hand stamped. I didn't know this at the time of purchase, not till I got it but since I have been wanting to add an actual H&G mold to my meager collection and I really have been wanting a #50 to feed my Revo fever with, I bought it. I don't know if I overpaid with consideration to what was advertised and what I got. It was important to me that I was getting an early mold and It pisses me off that I didn't get what was advertised. I had sent the seller a message the day I got it inquiring why there was a mismatch and have got no response. The seller was pretty quick to respond when I sent the offer in and also a reply to my thank you for accepting message. But not a peep since I got it. He just got another that was a little more to the point. I hate to have to possibly send it back or make a claim and loose it as it is a very nice mold but I don't like being taken advantage of either.

If the $200 for it was well worth it anyways, maybe i'll drop it and carry on but I don't really know if that's fair price or what. Maybe I just need some cheese with my whine... Still aggravating....

What do you guys think?
Chris from what you have told us that mold is worth every penny,they are getting kinda getting rare these days, your lucky to get a good one and btw the offer reply can be set,when listed so one gets a reply message instantly.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Chris from what you have told us that mold is worth every penny,they are getting kinda getting rare these days, your lucky to get a good one and btw the offer reply can be set,when listed so one gets a reply message instantly.

Yeah, that is on my mind, there is a finite number of H&G molds around, they aren't self healing either so getting a good one is.... well, good! I try to drop a couple ingots in the pot here ASAP and see how the product comes out. If it drops nice consistent boolits across all cavities, i'm inclined to keep it.

[runfiverun]

a good mold is defined by how it casts and how the boolits shoot.
I could care less if it's made out of whalebone and rubber boots or says elmer was here on the side.
I want the product it is supposed to deliver.

[gwpercle]

Report it to Ebay , if you paid through Pay-Pal your money will be refunded. Another words , Ebay will repay you and they will take it up with the seller. Ebay takes care of the buyer...they do not want people to have reasons not to buy off their site.
Hope you and seller can reach agreement, does that $50.00 discount sound fair ?
Gary

[quasi]

the #50 is the least valuable H&G mould because it is the most common, in every size. I agree you paid to much for the mould, but the box may be very valuable and make up for the difference.

[Valley-Shooter]

I'd have to say you paid to much and you got got cheated. The details are in the pictures. Zoom in and check the details.

Also know your prices. Do a detailed search and check the completed items block.

I buy a lot of my molds on eBay. Set your max price and keep to it. I bought a H & G San Diego 50 last month for $56. It has some surface rust on it, but I know how to deal with that. I'll treat it with evaporust and it will look great very soon.

[reddog81]

$200 is not an unreasonable asking price, but most of the stuff priced that high sits for months or longer. Typical selling price is probably closer to $100 with out the box. I have no idea what a box would be worth.

I purchased a nice looking early San Diego #50 4 cavity off a guy on thefiringline forum last year for $75. Unfortunately the alignment pins are slightly out of whack and the mold won't close all the way. I'd much rather have a newer mold that cast good bullets...

[Mytmousemalibu]

Thanks for the advise guys! I'll make an effort to get out to the shop tonight after the USPSA club match and pour some hot ones. It's nice and cool out this afternoon/evening so its prefect casting weather to be nestled up to the workbench with a bunch of molds. I have a couple of new ones to test drive anyways.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Well, just a little update... I did go take the mold for a spin around the casting pot, it's a pretty good runner, it drops some really decent bullets for the most part. Cavity #3 consistently has a little fin on the bevel base which on closer inspection is that one side on the block has a tiny chip or ding on that edge that is allowing lead to flow into it when pouring but it is pretty small, not enough to really worry about. This is a Murphy Oregon mold but the designation is hand lettered and it has nice patina so my best guess it is an early Oregon production mold. And another surprise, it appears to be an unmarked Special Order #50BB. It doesn't have an "S" stamped in it but all four cavities drop a consistent .360 dia boolit. According to the H&G website, many special order molds didn't get the "S" stamp but the standard #50 was a .358 or had it been one for a Clark conversion they were marked .356 so that's kinda neat. The seller was really didn't want to bother with a return as he had no use for it nor wanted to hassle with trying to resell the mold so he said name the price I was comfortable with keeping it. So looks like I have a #50BB Special Order in good condition and a San Diego H&G box for $120 as he accepted that offer. I thought that was fair for what I got and since he was very accommodating, i'm okay with that amount. So it worked out in the end!

[DerekP Houston]

Very nice! That's a decent price i just paid similar for a plain #50 :D, looking forward to getting home from this trip and giving it a try. My lee 6-cavity did some decent work while I had it, but the aluminum has gouges in it now and the handle snapped off. Upgrade!!

[Mytmousemalibu]

I forgot I had a bid in on another H&G #50 plain base, 6-cav that I also won a few days ago, it showed up today too! It is an earlier production Murphy Oregon mold and other than some small cracks in the wood handles, this mold is spotless! The condition it is in... seems unreal! It doesn't appear to have been restored or anything, just who ever owned probably didn't use it much and took really good care of it.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Won a near-new RCBS LAM II tonight too! With DIY heater, .357 & .358 dies, top punches, filled with red carnuba plus a little crock pot with/for lube that still has carnuba in it! Pretty close to what a new LAM II goes for just by itself so all the add-ons are great and the sizer dies are just what I needed anyways. Before this, any conventional lubed boolits I have done were all tumble lubed with 45-45-10 and Lee push-through sizers. I have gone the way of powder coat for the most part and it has served me very well but I still value tradition and have wanted a lubrisizer for some time and finally happened on a good enough deal. I would love to have the pinnacle of lubrisizers, the Star-Magma but I never see any for sale at the times I happen to look which I have heard some of you boast good deals on them. I would be all over one for some of the numbers I have heard but again, I don't see'em. For the probably small amount of conventional lubed bullets i'll do, I can't justify buying a new Star. The RCBS seems to get good reviews and is reasonably priced and more readily available dies so I think it will serve me well. I love the smoke & smell of a good conventionally lubed cast boolit sent downrange! Can't wait to run some of my beautiful #50's and 158gr. NOE SWCHP "FBI load" slugs through the LAM and down the bore of a .38!

[Mk42gunner]

I'm glad the deal on the original mold worked out for you. I have only had one San Diego H&G mold, but it was an absolute joy to cast with, too bad yours wasn't as advertised.

I too would like to have a Star; but it is hard to justify the cost of a new one, especially after figuring the cost of buying all new sizing dies. I have only ever seen one used one with a bunch of dies at a gunshow at an affordable price. Of course that was on my way out after I had already spent all of my disposable income.

I rethink not getting one every time I have more than a hundred boolits to size in my Lubamatic.

Robert

[Mytmousemalibu]

I'm pretty happy with the outcome. At the end of the day, it's still a nice H&G and being a Special Order mold makes up for it not being a San D mold. I have added 2 Hensley & Gibbs molds to the shelf in as many weeks, i'm sure these aren't my last either!

I'll still keep my eyes peeled for a Star. If I come across a good deal, I'll adopt it. If I end up doing more conventionally lubed boolits than I anticipate... well maybe i'd consider buying one new. I really value the finer things in life and putting quality gear on the reloading bench is no exception. I would love to one day have a Hollywood bolted down too but what they often go for....ouch!

[pete501]

I looked at the completed auction and I see from the pictures that Murphy Oregon is stamped on the mold and San Diego is printed on the box. He claims the mold is from the S.D. period but it is the miss matched box that is the San Diegan.
I would request a return. Not as described.

[Mytmousemalibu]

I looked at the completed auction and I see from the pictures that Murphy Oregon is stamped on the mold and San Diego is printed on the box. He claims the mold is from the S.D. period but it is the miss matched box that is the San Diegan.
I would request a return. Not as described.

You are right! I was going to return the mold but the seller was apologetic and basically said name a price that I might be willing to keep it for. He would have still taken it back had I just decided no but we came to an agreement as I still liked the mold, it makes good bullets, it was a Special Order #50BB, he accepted my much reduced offer to keep it so all it well. Yes, it was sold not as described but made it work in the end.

[FISH4BUGS]

the #50 is the least valuable H&G mould because it is the most common, in every size. I agree you paid to much for the mould, but the box may be very valuable and make up for the difference.
I disagree. The box adds little except for the desirabilty in the collector's eyes. I have a few that are in their original shipping box and did not feel I paid a premium for it.
I have bought many (probably over 20 or more) H&G moulds from eBay and have never been disappointed. I have paid stupid money for extremely rare moulds (like the mint #51 2 cavity factory dual hollow point with handles) and been happy with them.
In my humble opinion, the #50 is by far the most common mould in the entire H&G line. They come up all the time on eBay. Because they ARE so common, the price tends to stay low, $100-$125 for a four cavity. Since you wanted a San Diego mould, and got a Murphy mould it was not what you wanted nor bargained for.
Personally, I would get a full refund and start watching eBay for a #50 that you want.
...but that's just me.

[Ed in North Texas]

Not much you can do about it now; at least you got a decent mold, even if it isn't as advertised.

From what you say, you would have a hard time getting your money from the scam artist, um I mean seller.

Learn your lesson, leave him some nasty feedback and move on.

Robert

This is not true at all. Go through the e-Bay Dispute Resolution process. If the seller wants to do business on e-Bay in the future, he'll pay up on return of the mould and box. IF he doesn't pay, e-Bay will usually pay for him while blocking him from e-Bay.

I recently had an item which was actually the guy having Sears send me something as if I had ordered it. I thought it was a scam and I went through Dispute Resolution. Don't know if e-Bay refunded, or the guy did, but I received a PayPal notice of refund and don't care who paid.

[Echo]

Well - I imagine it isn't all that rare, but I have a DC San Diego Hensley 50 - not H&G, just Hensley. On display on my bookcase...

[zubrato]

I'm sorry to say, but that mold is going to cost you way more than what you paid for it.
H&G is addictive, friend. :) once you catch the disease it becomes more and more difficult to talk yourself out of buying more.:mrgreen:

I've paid too much for H&G myself, and made sure I could return some molds before I had purchased. Be glad yours is in excellent condition, I've had to extract broken screws from both halves of an otherwise pristine mold, and fabricated my own screws using button head socket screws(easier to use with a bottom pour, and preheat to temp.
Small tip: I replace the (hard to adjust)original set screws with socket set screws (10-36 I think..) Keep the originals in a baggie, they can be a pain to tighten especially if the mold is up to temp.

An ebay story:
Once thought I had a great deal on a #50 6 cavity, and bought it. Turns out some half-wit had been using a steel hammer on the sprue plate, mold faces, hinge screws and tops of the mold blocks. Holes for the alignment pins were egged out to unbelievable proportions. There was no saving this mold, and I wouldn't have been surprised to hear it was used to drive nails or break rocks.
Luckily I was refunded my cost, and I made sure I could return it before purchasing.

More than mad, I was incredibly disappointed someone had ignorantly destroyed something beautiful, and that another had tried to pass it off hoping they could screw someone new to casting.

I'm glad you were able to get in contact with the guy and renegotiate a better deal, enjoy casting with your new mold!

[Texasflyboy]

There will never be another new Geo. A. Hensley or Hensley & Gibbs mould made. Period.

The fixed number that are out there in circulation is forever fixed, and dwindles day by day, week by week, year by year.

I have lost count the number of newly damaged Hensley & Gibbs moulds that I have been asked to value when they are discovered as part of an estate and they find the website and then ask me for help to value them. I've come to expect that at least 20% of the time the moulds will be newly cleaned....usually with a wire wheel or something similar.

In my humble opinion, there is no such thing as paying too much for a Hensley & Gibbs mould. We are all caretakers. The moulds can be eternal, but we are not.

I hope one day to liquidate my collection to someone who will take care of them, use them, enjoy them, and then pass them on to the next generation to enjoy.

I have personally paid what many would consider to be crazy money for some moulds. Money I can find. Rare Hensley & Gibbs moulds are harder. I've never regretted buying any of them after using them.

FWIW.

[lightload]

We can expect dishonest people to stamp and re-stamp molds and other equipment that has become valuable. I had a couple of real nice molds with collector's value given to me years ago. I never used them and sold them to other folks who would use and care for them. In each case I priced them way below market value. One was a nice Saeco sold to Brassmagnet; the other was a 8 cavity H&G .38 wc mold sold to a young man in Wisconsin. Selling either on E Bay would have been like selling my dog's puppies at the flea market. I just could not do either.

[jms1911]

There will never be another new Geo. A. Hensley or Hensley & Gibbs mould made. Period.

The fixed number that are out there in circulation is forever fixed, and dwindles day by day, week by week, year by year.

I have lost count the number of newly damaged Hensley & Gibbs moulds that I have been asked to value when they are discovered as part of an estate and they find the website and then ask me for help to value them. I've come to expect that at least 20% of the time the moulds will be newly cleaned....usually with a wire wheel or something similar.

In my humble opinion, there is no such thing as paying too much for a Hensley & Gibbs mould. We are all caretakers. The moulds can be eternal, but we are not.

I hope one day to liquidate my collection to someone who will take care of them, use them, enjoy them, and then pass them on to the next generation to enjoy.

I have personally paid what many would consider to be crazy money for some moulds. Money I can find. Rare Hensley & Gibbs moulds are harder. I've never regretted buying any of them after using them.

FWIW.

I agree completely. I've bought never used S.D. #68 and #51 four cavities that I paid a lot for and never regretted it. Like you said money is out there, and going down in value, but there will never be any more H&G molds made.