For Lead pot

[montana_charlie]

Hey, Kurt.
In a past thread we (some of us) were talking about various alloys used for PP bullets.
You mentioned having had fair luck with one or more antimonal alloys, and I mentioned I was using one, too.
As I recall, that was back in the fall, and you asked for a 'snowbanker' from me to compare with your own examples.

Well, snow was scarce last winter, with never enough depth for a shot. But our annual 'Easter Blizzard' dumped enough to cause all kinds of troubles.
Getting vehicles unstuck, and firing up generators to make electricity kept me from thinking about those bullets saved for a snowbank.

The deep stuff was almost gone when it dawned on me that I was missing the only opportunity ... so I grabbed the rifle and two rounds for a quick 'deposit'.

The first bullet passed through, but the second one stayed buried.

This is it, and I believe it to be 97% lead, 3% antimony, with a trace of tin. Hardness is 10.4 BHN using a tool that says 20-1 is 7.8 BHN. So, this is substantially harder than 20-1 lead/tin.


The naked bullet is 1.440", and the fired bullet is ten thousandths longer ... obviously due to the rifling being impressed into the patched to groove package.

So, no nose bump-up (slump) at all with an alloy this hard, but it still took a full impression of the barrel.

http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/10.4%20BHN%20Alloy_zpsldmnybgj.jpg

[Chill Wills]

Very Nice!
Your groove diameter PP bullets are getting me (re) interested in giving it a go again this season. I will be using A tri- alloy PB-SB-SN of various blends.
Good in-focus picture, BTW

[shooter93]

That is very interesting Charlie. I have been thinking about getting back into this.....last time I was shooting BP cartridge the buffalo were around......so it is a whole new learning curve for me.

[semtav]

Interesting that your bullet has such a weave of the paper on it including in the groove. the one I've recovered is almost smooth. using 12.5-1 alloy. What paper were you using? I'd include a pic if I had a camera that took a clear picture.

[montana_charlie]

Interesting that your bullet has such a weave of the paper on it including in the groove. the one I've recovered is almost smooth. using 12.5-1 alloy. What paper were you using? I'd include a pic if I had a camera that took a clear picture.
I was once given an explanation for that paper grain imprint, and it came from an experienced PP shooter.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?42529-Paper-Patching-my-way&p=899428&viewfull=1#post899428

The printing on the outside of the box says Eagle Typewriter Paper.
The watermark in the paper itself says Eagle - Trojan Onionskin - 25 percent rag
Two wraps adding about 6 thousandths to a .454" bullet gives me a .460" patched to groove diameter.

The 'grain' in the paper runs from top to bottom in an individual sheet, and I cut patches horizontally so the grain runs across their width. When dampened, they naturally curl around the bullet.

I only dampen the leading corner, and it stays flat to the bullet until the first wrap is complete.
Otherwise, the patches are put on dry and slipped immediately into waiting cases.

[montana_charlie]

That is very interesting Charlie. I have been thinking about getting back into this.....last time I was shooting BP cartridge the buffalo were around......so it is a whole new learning curve for me.
If you shoot patched to groove bullets, the only learning curve is wrapping the paper on.
Since the bullets are seated deep like grease groove bullets, there's nothing new to learn.

[montana_charlie]

Very Nice!
Your groove diameter PP bullets are getting me (re) interested in giving it a go again this season. I will be using A tri- alloy PB-SB-SN of various blends.
Good in-focus picture, BTW
If your rifling twists to the right, point your bullet nose left when you roll it away from you to wrap the patch on.
Believe me that it makes a difference when you are shooting patched to groove.
If you want proof, you'll have to wait for next winter's snowbanks to form ... but I am certain I could convince you.

[5.7 MAN]

Would you post a pic of a loaded round? I have been patching to bore but would like to try patching to groove diameter as well. Will there be any aper showing from the case mouth?

that is great pic!

[Lead pot]

Perfect Charlie!!

I'm on the road and this little thing I'm on typing is to small for my fingers. I just picked up a ew CPA an I'm out in the hills of PA.

A lot of shooters think antinony is death to accuracy but your example of what they look like when fired how can tis be??? 3% is a lot more then what I use foe bre diameter PP bullets but that 3% is great for a groove diameter. Looks great with full impression of the paper fibers showing up on the shank. Very good. I bet that there is not much setback of the whole bullet either.

I have to get off this. To much retyping LOL.

Kurt

[Gunlaker]

That's a cool picture!

I've also done some shooting of PP bullets with antimony. Mine was accidental as my lead supplier accidentally sold me an ingot with 2% Antimony and I did not notice until after I'd cast the bullets and weighed them. Mine are patched to bore diameter and still bumped up.

My loads with Swiss 1.5 were a little off in accuracy when compared with my standard 16:1 alloy. When using OE 1.5 there was no difference in accuracy between 16:1 and the alloy with a little antimony.

The OE 1.5 loads used Kenny Wasserberger's wad stack which seems to help seal the bore for instant it takes for the bullet to bump up.

Chris.

[montana_charlie]

Would you post a pic of a loaded round? I have been patching to bore but would like to try patching to groove diameter as well. Will there be any aper showing from the case mouth?
I have played around with seating depth, so the amount of visible patch has changed.
But the 45/90 cartridge on the left closely resembles my current loading.


http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/PPMoney.jpg

[montana_charlie]

A lot of shooters think antinony is death to accuracy but your example of what they look like when fired how can tis be??? 3% is a lot more then what I use foe bre diameter PP bullets but that 3% is great for a groove diameter.
3% is more than I would choose, too. This particular alloy is a combination of a boxful of small radioactive isotope enclosures that I wanted to get rid of.
After they were turned into ingots and hardness checked, I went looking at enclosure information to determine the probable metal content.

I decided to keep the alloy at this mix until I could recover one ... to see if it is actually "too hard" for the application.
Now, I will mix it one-to-one with pure lead to drop the antimony content to 1.5%, then add enough tin to make 1.5% of that, too.

Once I expend all of my 'scrap', I plan to use 97/1.5/1.5 exclusively. It is a shade harder than 16-1 lead/tin.

[5.7 MAN]

I have played around with seating depth, so the amount of visible patch has changed.
But the 45/90 cartridge on the left closely resembles my current loading.


http://i684.photobucket.com/albums/vv203/montana_charlie/PPMoney.jpg
Beautiful! Thanks I'll have to give this a try.

[semtav]

guess the weave shows up better in picture than in real life



http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae53/S2D/225_zpspxpdjgcx.jpg (http://s957.photobucket.com/user/S2D/media/225_zpspxpdjgcx.jpg.html)

[montana_charlie]

guess the weave shows up better in picture than in real life
Oh, no! It's happening to you, too!

Pay careful attention to this analysis from an old hand at PP shooting.

"Yes by the bullet being to large the patch is keeping it from fully expanding to the bore, that's why the grain is imprinted in the bullet. By it being patched that tight , it's liable to be doing all sorts of contortions when it comes out the muzzle. "

If that doesn't get you back on the straight and narrow, you are probably beyond help. (wink!)

[Don McDowell]

Brian what diameter are you slicks before patching?

[Lead pot]

Brian I see the paper fibers in all of my recovered bullets.

Well better pull up the anchor and get moving. This will be a long day going through the concrete jungles to get home.

[semtav]

Cast at .454, patched to .459.

Have fun with your new gun Kurt. Ive got a new one on the way . 45-100.

[semtav]

OOPs I mean 45 2.6

[Lead pot]

Cast at .454, patched to .459.

Have fun with your new gun Kurt. Ive got a new one on the way . 45-100.

Wrong diameter Brian :razz: should have been .44-100. OOOPs should have been .44-2.6 LOL

[semtav]

Yea ! one of these days Im going to have to ruin myself and try a 44.