My New Lyman Mag 25

[HangFireW8]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=167002&d=1461634467

[rancher1913]

looks well used to me[smilie=2:

[HangFireW8]

I received it last Friday, had to take the family out until 10 p.m., cast until 1:00 a.m.

I ordered a second thermometer (the Lyman) from Amazon on Saturday and received it today.

Tried it and some different alloys and a couple of molds that have known temperature preferences on Sunday evening, and tonight.

Tomorrow I call Lyman and see if I have to pay return shipping on a brand new freaking pot, or if they're going to take care of me.

[Walter Laich]

OK, I'm a bit lost

only thing I see is readout appears not to match thermometers. Is that the problem?

[HangFireW8]

Yes, off by 70 to 80 degrees. Also the touchpad ignores most presses. It takes 2 or 3 minutes of trying to get it to flash (get in adjust mode). I have better things to do with my time.

Got an RMA from cust service this morning, but its a big box goingback on my dime.

[Smoke4320]

I believe the pic shows the readout at 781 and the 2 thermos at about 700-710

[Mike W1]

Can't tell what brand PID it uses but I've had 3 brands of them and with my fumble fingers have found that it's easier to press those little buttons with the eraser end of a pencil. Also 2 of them require hitting a SET button so the info gets inputted to the PID. It's nice your 2 dial thermometers roughly agree with each other but the odds are the PID is probably the correct reading. Looks like SV 780 and PV 781. With my 3 PID's and a VOM reading also there's usually not much difference in their readings and my stem thermometer was way off. (since recalibrated BTW)

Were it me I'd do a little further testing before springing for the postage which will be considerable I'm sure. This would definitely be an instance where I prefer my TC easily removeable for testing or replacement.

[HangFireW8]

Odds are practically zero that the PID is correct, and pencil erasers don't work any better. (EDIT: I was wrong. Both dial thermometers turned out to be wrong at higher temps, the pot was OK.)

The RCBS in particular has been checked against boiling water, straight lead and the phase points of known solder.

As for Set button, I am following Lyman's instructions to the letter.

It's getting packed up tonight and going back tomorrow. USPS is about $21.

[Walter Laich]

shipping is not as bad as I thought but I think Lyman needs to pick up the tab if for nothing else than customer relations

[Mike W1]

Odds are practically zero that the PID is correct, and pencil erasers don't work any better.

The RCBS in particular has been checked against boiling water, straight lead and the phase points of known solder.

As for Set button, I am following Lyman's instructions to the letter.

It's getting packed up tonight and going back tomorrow. USPS is about $21.

Glad it'll be taken care of for you. It would be nice if you'd let us all know what the problem turned out to be. IF they bother to tell you that is! Odds are you'll be sent a different unit I suppose.

[gnostic]

I had the same experience with a Turbo 1200 case cleaner. I paid $50 for it at Walmart and it cost $18 to send back.

[HangFireW8]

I'll update the thread when it gets back.

[rancher1913]

sorry, didn't see the temp diff. just noticed all the splatter that looked like someone was having fun and could not help but rib a guy with a fancy pot like that, too bad its not working right.

[allen16323]

How does the pour spout set up work? Drip issues or the like?

[HangFireW8]

It dripped a fair bit, not as much as my Lee 10 lb but more than my Lee 20 lb.

Pour was very controllable, and lever feel was good with its little wire spring arrangement.

I found the mold guide very useful but a little balky to adjust. The dripping issue made mold guide adjustment a little adventuresome. I tried one RCBS and 3 Lee rifle molds, one 8mm Max and the rest 30's. All worked in the mold guide, and all required a different mold guide position.

The pour lever stop was useful. Wide-open might be useful for big 45/70 boolits, but not the 30's.

I would have tried to address the drip issue but it had larger problems. My ingots are very clean...

[trixter]

I will be very interested to find out how you manage the drip issue.

[HangFireW8]

Called Lyman today, they've had my Mag 25 since Monday of last week. It's on the bench to be evaluated, no status yet, they aim for 30 days turnaround time. So, I wait.

I wouldn't be so hurried, but we've had nothing but cool wet weather here for the past 2 weeks, the days are getting longer but I'm stuck inside most of the time... it would have been a perfect time for casting in the garage. I could cast more handgun boolits, but I'm overstocked as it is. I caught up on some minor gunsmithing and I'll reload what I have for rifle. I was playing with different molds so unfortunately I have only 100 or less of each one I tried, except for one I tried twice.

I have this fantasy of casting 25 pounds or more of each of my rifle bullets, loading 10-per load ladders with every suitable powder I have, and then shooting aggregates from morning until they kick me of the range at the end of the day.

[dannyd]

If your in Maryland be glad you still have your guns

[HangFireW8]

If your in Maryland be glad you still have your guns

And this is relevant to the Lyman Mag 25 topic... how?

[dannyd]

And this is relevant to the Lyman Mag 25 topic... how?

its not :)

[HangFireW8]

Just got a notice from Lyman. It simply says my item has been repaired and has been shipped FedEx. The tracking number isn't in the FedEx system yet, but that is not unusual.

Felix always said rainy days were good for casting, more in the forecast this weekend, hope it gets here in good order by then!

[HangFireW8]

sorry, didn't see the temp diff. just noticed all the splatter that looked like someone was having fun and could not help but rib a guy with a fancy pot like that, too bad its not working right.

You can rib me all you want! I can take it.

Those splatters came right off the finish, enamel I suppose. Good finish (so far, anyway) but too much drip.

[Griff]

I've had my Lyman Mag25 for several months... My old Lyman Mag20 was not heating enough, and with the new furnace out, they ain't selling parts for the old one.

I'd cast for 30+ years without a thermometer w/that Lyman Mag20, still don't have a thermometer, so if my temp is off... I'm fat, dumb and happy... I'm back to getting good pours, no discoloration and filled out molds. If the meter's to be believed, I'm running within 3º and only drop about 20º when I add a 1 pound ingot of new alloy and less than 50º when adding 3 or more. Comes back up to temperature pretty quickly, and seems to self adjust to remain steady at set temp in a reasonable time.

If only the PID controller I bought for the Lee Pro4 20 lb pot I use for pure lead would work.

Hopefully your experience with the Mag25 is as good as I've had.

[1989toddm]

Just got a notice from Lyman. It simply says my item has been repaired and has been shipped FedEx. The tracking number isn't in the FedEx system yet, but that is not unusual.

Felix always said rainy days were good for casting, more in the forecast this weekend, hope it gets here in good order by then!

I miss reading Felix's posts. I wonder why the rainy? Has to be the lower atmospheric pressure?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smoke4320]

I miss Felix .. Was not on here much before his passing .. sure seemed to be a wealth of knowledge and shared freely

[HangFireW8]

I got it back today, they sent it FedEx yesterday.


https://youtu.be/r0F0Sui3SoA

The packing slip said:

RECALIBRATED FURNACE
TEST MELT/TESTED FINE AT
800 DEGREES/RAN FURNACE FOR
6 HOURS HELD 800 DEGREE
TEMPERATUR/NO OTHER ISSUES
FOUND
REPAIRED/TESTED FINE

My old RCBS and the new Lyman diverge a bit more at higher temps but are still 'close enough' and in major disagreement with the PID.

It's curious that the PID now maintains a temp about 10F higher than the setpoint, and goes as much as 15F over. It didn't do that before. I wonder if that was the "calibration".

Now I have to figure out what to do... again. I've already dropped $45 on a new thermometer, I'm not going to do that again.

I do know not being able to get to 800F is not acceptable.

[VHoward]

Where did you buy it and do you still have your receipt? I would return it for a refund as defective.

[HangFireW8]

Where did you buy it and do you still have your receipt? I would return it for a refund as defective.

I got it from MidSouth, and that's a possibility.

I've decided the next step is to RMA the Lyman thermometer. It is still within the (lame) 90 day warranty, and they can hardly deny me an RMA if it disagrees almost 100F from their other product.

It's also a heck of a lot cheaper to mail in than a melter.

[VHoward]

I have the Lyman thermometer. I also have a multi-meter that also will measure temperature. The Lyman measures 5 degrees less than the multimeter. Either one of them could be off or both, but the multimeter agrees with the PID's I have. I wouldn't think the Lyman thermometer would be that far off.

[HangFireW8]

Here's some more data.

Fired up the old Lee 10 lb pot on Max and left it for a while. Neither thermometer got over 700, Lyman 675, RCBS 685F. This is why it is getting replaced.

Fired up the new Lee 20 lb pot, left it on Max for a while. Lyman read 880F, RCBS read 990F. It looked, felt, and smelled crazy-hot.

So, the hotter they are, the more the thermometers diverge. The 20 lb pot had a bunch of oxidized metal dross on top, just as one would expect. I didn't see this on the Lyman even after leaving it at the 850F setpoint for an hour. I really don't think it's getting to 850F.

So, I'll return the Lyman thermometer, ask them to calibrate it carefully for the best readings around 850, and test again. If it is still wildly different from my Mag 25, they'll have to fix it again, but I'm not paying shipping again!

[HangFireW8]

I called Lyman this morning and proposed to send back the thermometer, but the Customer Service lady zero'ed in on the furnace and wanted me to send it back. I said "It cost me $21 last time" and she said she'll send me a call tag (FedEx label). I also said I'm sending in the new Lyman thermometer, so they can see what I'm seeing. I asked her if the Tech had tried another thermometer, or just believed what the PID controller said. She said the notes didn't really say if he did.

That meant I had to empty the pot, so I cast up a bunch of 8mm Karabiners until it was nearly empty. On the heat-up I tested the phase change points, and I'm sure the pot is running cooler than indicated.

[Mike W1]

Reminds me of the saying "a man with a watch knows the time, one with two watches doesn't".

[HangFireW8]

Reminds me of the saying "a man with a watch knows the time, one with two watches doesn't".


Yes, my thoughts exactly... I have 3 clocks (thermometers), two dial and one pid, and none agree.

[Mike W1]

Think you've inspired a project for me, maybe this weekend. I have an assortment of TC's, 3 PID's, a VOM that'll read temperature and a dial thermometer. Guess it'd be interesting to see how they all compare with each other.

[HangFireW8]

Think you've inspired a project for me, maybe this weekend. I have an assortment of TC's, 3 PID's, a VOM that'll read temperature and a dial thermometer. Guess it'd be interesting to see how they all compare with each other.

If you find something interesting, start a new thread and link it from here.

Frustrated that I'll be without the Mag 25 again, I inspired myself to do something more then just pack up the furnace.

First, I clamped a big ol' pair of locking pliers on the Lyman Mag 25 pour rod top, and that cured the drip. I've used this fix on Lee pots in the past, but it works better on the Mag 25 because the rod is vertical. I can probably go down a size or two to lessen my effort on the pour lever.

Second, I cast over 10#, about 300 8mm Karabiners from the Mag 25, and then made a few ingots in order to drain the pot for shipping.

Third, I tweaked the Infinity Control on the old Lee 10# Production (pre-IV) pot (the one that Mag 25 is supposed to replace), now it will get to higher temps than 675F. I rebuilt it (new control and coil) when the old coil went out, it never got very hot after that, but I had promised myself a new pot rather than fiddle with it any more. Well, it was an easy fix... but the 25 lb capacity of the Mag 25 already has me spoiled.

These pliers (http://www.amazon.com/KNIPEX-37-13-125-Electronics/dp/B005EXO0UY) turned out to be perfect for tweaking the Lee temp control. I got 3 pair for 8 bucks each during one of those wild Amazon price excursions.

[BrassMagnet]

I miss reading Felix's posts. I wonder why the rainy? Has to be the lower atmospheric pressure?


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I can't cast on rainy days. I cast outside. Lead and water don't mix. Too windy doesn't work for me, either due to my fans won't control the fumes.
I suspect Felix casted indoors. He could shoot in good weather and load or cast in poor weather. What a great life!
I have decided I want to build a casting shed. I want a bank of vent fans in opposite walls, with casting benches/vent hoods on opposite walls, too. That way I can use the bench and vent hood/vent fans that is down wind under current weather conditions!

[Mike W1]

Well I started a thread on my fiddlin' around. Hopefully this will link it from here but I'm not sure I'm doing it correctly.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?307385-TC-s-Dial-Thermometers-amp-PID-s

[1989toddm]

My loading and casting benches are in my basement, I have a window directly above the pot that I open, and I don't flux in the casting pot, so no smoke. I just inherited a range hood that I plan to hang over and vent out the window.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HangFireW8]

I am fortunate enough to have a garage, I cast in a corner with a double hung window on both sides, I can open the top and/or bottom of both. The bottom of the windward side for fresh air in and the top of the other open for smoke out, taking advantage of convection.

Most of the time this is more than sufficient ventilation.

If the wind shifts or I misjudge it, up goes a garage door. Cool days in Spring and Fall are the best times for me to cast, based on comfort. That is why losing my new pot for another round trip is so annoying.

Tonight I cast about 200 RCBS 30-180-FN's using the old Lee pot. I sure do miss the 25# capacity and the mold guide, but it got the job done.

[HangFireW8]

Just called Lyman back, I never received the FedEx label. The customer service lady said she had to escalate it to a Tech or Engineer, and they would call me back. Unlike the Thursday lady, she was unwilling to commit to taking the pot back, the dial thermometer, or both.

On another note, I sized my Saturday 30-180-FN casting from the old Lee 10# pot, and I got 219 good ones and 14 rejects. Almost all the rejects were rounded bases from slow/start-stop/incomplete pours (in other words, my technique). If the other cavity pour is good, it goes in the bucket, to maintain rhythm. I missed the faster flow and the pour adjustment limiter of the Mag 25, not to mention the capacity, but I got the job done with the old Lee drip-o-matic.

Cool-Wet-Spring-weather casting season is pretty much over, I now have enough small batches and two medium sized batches of 8mm and .30 to keep me busy for a while into the Summer. What I really wanted was two huge batches of 8mm and .30, so I don't have to work up a load and then switch batches for follow-up, but it is what it is.

[gnostic]

I will be very interested to find out how you manage the drip issue.

My 420 lee leaks to where, I have to resist the desire to throw it in the trash...

[HangFireW8]

My 420 lee leaks to where, I have to resist the desire to throw it in the trash...

Oh! I forgot to mention. I fixed the drip on the Mag25. It's the same fix I've seen used on Lee pots.

I clamped a pair of locking pliers to the top of the spigot rod. The extra weight sealed it off. The issue is the same as all pots, steel floats in lead, and the more of the rod that is below the fluid level, the more it wants to float upwards.

You have to be careful the jaws don't interfere with the stop screw. Also I suggest you and find the lightest locking pliers that do the job, because you're lifting the weight of it with each pour, and the big pliers I had on there (biggest I had) made it tiring.

Perhaps once the warranty has run out, I'll drill and tap a hole in the top of that rod and rig up a more compact weight for it. If I calibrate it to not drip with a full pot of pure (ish) lead, it should be good for any alloy I use.

[HangFireW8]

No call-back today. That's two dropped responses in a row. I will bring this up next time I get them on the phone.

EDIT: No call-back today (Wednesday), either.

[HangFireW8]

I called today and spoke to two nice ladies and got it straightened out. The short version is, they are sending me a new Lyman dial thermometer to replace my new defective thermometer.

The long story, they use lab quality thermal measurement equipment, so my furnace is as dialed-in as it can be, and they got confused as to my intentions. I didn't really want to send the furnace back again, but it was suggested by one of the customer service reps, and then blocked by a manager... and then they dropped the ball on getting back to me. Twice.

My key takeaway is this, the dial thermometers- of any brand, they said- are not very accurate, and I happened to have one that read low, and bought another that read very low.

[kenyerian]

Is the Lyman Thermometer adjustable so it can be calibrated?

[HangFireW8]

Is the Lyman Thermometer adjustable so it can be calibrated?

Nope. Crimped all the way around the back and nothing adjustable.

[kenyerian]

Well it looks like I won't be buying a Lyman Thermometer.

[HangFireW8]

Received my new Lyman Casting Thermometer today. Haven't had a chance to try it yet, will update when I do.


EDIT: The new thermometer is good. It is dead on the PID up to 740 and low by 15 at 800. This is close enough.

Next, call RCBS about their thermometer, and figure out what to do with the bad Lyman. I have 3 other pots and a smelter, so having an extra is good, 2 extras are a bit much.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=169543&d=1465014164
Left to Right, the bad Lyman casting thermometer reads 720F. RCBS, about 742F. Replacement Lyman sent me, 795F (parallax in the pic makes it look like less). PID pot says 809F. Last thermometer within 2% of PID readout.

[VHoward]

Boil some water and see if it reads in the 212 degree area.

[HangFireW8]

Boil some water and see if it reads in the 212 degree area.

For which one? And why? I don't cast with cerrosafe, and all 3 match the PID pot well up to 400 or so .... where it doesn't matter.

[VHoward]

Well if you think it reads correctly under 400 degrees, I don't know why it would not read correctly above 400 degrees. I suggested the boiling water check so you could check to see if it was somewhere close to what it should read.

[HangFireW8]

Well if you think it reads correctly under 400 degrees, I don't know why it would not read correctly above 400 degrees. I suggested the boiling water check so you could check to see if it was somewhere close to what it should read.

It's not unusual for a spring thermometer to have a useful range and a not-so-useful range.

[trixter]

ON THE MANUAL thermometers, IF THERE IS A LARGE NUT ON THE BOTTOM , HOLD THE DIAL AND TWIST IT TILL IT LINES UP TO THE PROPER TEMP, AND SEE IF IT COMES BACK NEXT TIME.

[HangFireW8]

No nut on either brand.

[leadman]

With my home built pids they need to cycle for around 15 minutes to adjust themselves. Thought this might have been an issue but it sounds like you probably cast enough boolits to accomplish this.
Where did Lyman mount the thermocouple to the pot? This has proved critical to proper operation of my pid for my RCBS pot. In the lead is great, on the side of the pot not very good, mounted to the bottom of the pot seems the best for a location not directly in the lead. I retapped a T-nut and brazed it to the bottom of my RCBS pot and screwed the thermocouple in to it.
If you speak with someone at Lyman you may suggest they replace the thermocouple as I have had a couple that gave incorrect readings.

[HangFireW8]

The problem was 2 bad dial thermometers. Since they outvoted the pot, I suspected the pot, and sent it to Lyman.

Part of the problem was at lower temps, around non-eutectic phase transitions, the dial thermometers are more accurate, causing me to trust them more than the PID pot. As things get near 800F, the dial thermometers start to read low.

The replacement Lyman thermometer tracks the pot temps exactly to 750 and close enough (2%) to 850. I now trust the pot readout, especially since it was carefully calibrated at Lyman with lab grade thermal measuring equipment.

I'm done with this thread. I've had to explain twice the dial thermometers are non-adjustable, and twice that the dial thermometers were the real problem.

Before anyone posts more advice, please read the entire thread.

[Smoke4320]

It's not unusual for a spring thermometer to have a useful range and a not-so-useful range.

You are correct .. in my dealing with gauge manufacturers (I used to build a very hi end paintball gun for a company ) they all said that the gauges read best in middle of the range.
Another stated it this way... a 800 lb gauge would be inaccurate for the first 100 and last 100 so its true range was 100 to 700 and it would read most accurate at the mid point
They said if I wanted a top of 3000 PSI I needed to install a 4000-5000 PSI gauge

[RWR]

I Got a MAG-20 in Nov 2009 for my retirement. Set in my basement until June 16 and didn't work. Lyman won't stand behind it.
Out of warranty and don't have parts to fix it. Offered $150 in Lyman products. The pot has never been heated so was not checked at the factory before shipment. Says they check before shipping in the instruction guide. This one sure wasn't. Would not recommend buying Lyman.

[HangFireW8]

I Got a MAG-20 in Nov 2009 for my retirement. Set in my basement until June 16 and didn't work. Lyman won't stand behind it.
Out of warranty and don't have parts to fix it. Offered $150 in Lyman products. The pot has never been heated so was not checked at the factory before shipment. Says they check before shipping in the instruction guide. This one sure wasn't. Would not recommend buying Lyman.

Usually no heat when new is something simple, like a loose wire after UPS is done dropping it. Since you have no warranty to lose, take a look inside. They are not very complicated.

Still, it's sad they have no parts already.