9mm VS 45 ACP

[bouncer50]

My friend and i both agree and disagree on the subject of stopping power on the 9mm vs 45 acp. If both were using ball ammo i agree the the 45 acp has better stopping power. But put 9mm +P i believe has better stopping power then the 45 acp. Like the old disagreement which is better a big slow heavy bullet vs a faster lighter bullet which has better stopping power. :-o I do carry 45 acp and 9mm pistols but 16 rounds vs 8 rounds makes you think which is better to carry.:-o

[quietmike]

Whichever one you shoot well and have confidence in.

I'd much rather face someone with a 44 mag who shoots 6 rounds a year, than someone with a 22 who shoots thousands.

[Lonegun1894]

Well, both will kill a threat, but the .45 does it right now, while with the 9mm you shoot them, and then run away and hope the infection gets them before they catch up to you. :)

That should get the argument started...

[RugerFanOH]

Shot placement is the most important factor.

The officers in Garland, TX took down the Islamic terrorists that had AR-15s with a Glock 21 (45ACP!)

[upr45]

Shot placement, either to the central nervous system ends the fight now. Better to make 1 well aimed hit than 16 superficial wounds, sure you'll have a blood trail to follow, but giving a foe a chance to shoot back you might make one too.

[smkummer]

I'll shoot what ever I have at the time as well as I can. I used to be 45 all the way but 2-9mm for 1-45 in a magazine has me switched to 9mm. I have pretty much come to the conclusion if I have to shoot, it will be 2 shots minimum anyways. And yes, in civilian forms, some 9mm HP pretty darn good. Of course the Speer Gold dot 45 is something I never want to be on the receiving end of.

[HangFireW8]

A 9 vs 45 thread? How quaint.

[gray wolf]

Everyone seems to have bought into the 9MM lately ( some years now )
People say the 9Mill has been improved, more rounds, bla,bla.

I guess the 45 A C P didn't improve ?

Fill a gallon jug with water and put a 9MM hole in it and then do one with a 45 Size hole in it.
Then see what jug empties first.

Statistically most violent encounters are over in less that three seconds, rounds fired = about 5/7
and take place inside a normal car length.

Like is always said: it's rounds on target that hit the C N S or the brain box,
not how many chances you have to get it done.
A person is either dead or alive, as long as they are standing and can hold a weapon they pose a threat.
They can choke you out while they are waiting to die.

15 rounds ? 17 rounds ? I mean come on, how many times you planning on missing ?
What ? fill em full of holes and hope one of them works ?

As for surviving a gun fight, (didn't say shoot out) there are many, as in multiple things to know and practice for.

Rounds in the gun is not one of them.

[dubber123]

From what I have gathered observing ballistic tests, the difference between 9/40/45 with GOOD current factory ammo is pretty small. Ball ammo? I would bet bigger is better. Anyone who blabs on and on about how well their small caliber penetrates needs to realize it needs to do some damage on the way through. Smaller calibers in non expanding form can penetrate very well, but do less damage on the way than a similarly shaped, but larger caliber will. Pick whatever one you can shoot well, and use good, current self defense type bullets.

I just recently switched from my 20+ year carry gun, a .38 Spl with 160+ gr. soft HP's at 850+ fps., to a .40 autoloader with 180's at about the same speed. The difference was the gain in power in an easier to carry gun, with a faster reload if needed. It was a long decision in the 9 or 40 caliber, and I am still not sure I chose right. Right enough for now though.

[ReloaderFred]

I've seen people killed with everything from a .22 Short (yes, an actual .22 Short) to 12 gauge shotgun. They were all dead, but the time it took them to die varied greatly. Hits to vital areas are what counts.

I get very tired of seeing "7 yards is where most gunfights occur". The times I was shot at were all way beyond 7 yards. Way, way beyond, and you better know where your gun hits at 25, 35, 50 yards and beyond, because bad guys don't read the same rule books as the good guys do. Even in cities, distances can be much greater, and if you let a bad guy get within 7 yards of you with a knife or club, and your gun is in your holster, you're going to bleed before you get it out, if you get it out at all. We proved that over and over again on the range, even with duty holsters that are exposed and easier to draw from than concealed holsters.

Practice with what you have, and then practice some more. Have someone distract you from the side while you're practicing, and if you want somewhat realistic practice, have them throw something at you, like a tennis ball, and see how that affects your aim........

And practice from the draw, since that's a whole other variable.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[jrayborn]

9 mm has made a lot of improvements but the technology has been incorporated into .45 acp too. To me, I prefer 9mm, not saying it's better, just for me I hit faster with it on follow up shots. It does certainly have the additional advantage (usually) of higher round count. Some folks don't see that as a big deal, but it certainly could be. One issue that is more common than many folks care to admit, is the proliferation of bad-guys in body-armor. Not that 9mm or .45 will defeat it as they usually will not, but it could take a few extra rounds to find the weak-spots (groin).

Finally, multiple bad-guy situations can make the idea of reloading unpleasant. My thoughts are it is one less thing to have to deal with if I have 15-20 on tap before running dry. Of course accuracy is still critical, but why not have as much advantage as you can?

Certainly both are very good. :)

[str8wal]

A 9 vs 45 thread? How quaint.

Right?!?!? I guess the quota has not been met yet...... :killingpc

[pretzelxx]

I came up with a new point personally why I like 45 better. It's easier to handle and the mold I have works better than my 9mm! And I have a 1911 for the 45 not a 9mm. 45 wins in my book (for now)

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

[dverna]

Good post Fred!

[Tom W.]

The 9mm is easier to shoot, and it took me 40 years to put away my .45 as an everyday carry gun. Not that I'll ever be without one. Just getting old now and not as strapping or strong as I used to be. Looking to get the new Redhawk .45 Colt /.45 acp soon.

In my younger days I wouldn't even consider a 9mm.

[William Yanda]

Well, with NY's Safe Act, the 9 mm only has a 2-3 round advantage over the 45. What? LE is not restricted to 10 rounds.....That's.....That's.....That's just not fair.

[Schrag4]

Like is always said: it's rounds on target that hit the C N S or the brain box,
not how many chances you have to get it done.
A person is either dead or alive, as long as they are standing and can hold a weapon they pose a threat.
They can choke you out while they are waiting to die.

You actually want less chances? It's funny, the last sentence I quoted sounds like an argument in favor of 9mm over 45 rather than the other way around.

[Hickok]

166926

[dubber123]

I actually practiced draw and fire while walking backwards, forwards, and right to left today. Boy, groups sure get bigger while you are moving.. :) I always fire the last 5 at 25 yds. trying for a decent group to help rebuild my confidence. That works. Sometimes.

[Ural Driver]

Because sometimes, just sometimes, "enough gun".....still ain't enough.

https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

[gray wolf]

You actually want less chances? It's funny, the last sentence I quoted sounds like an argument in favor of 9mm over 45 rather than the other way around.

Sorry you read it that way,
I assure you it wasn't meant that way, just like it wasn't meant to ruff up any feathers.

[Thumbcocker]

Coming soon...... Who needs the .30-06 and ..... .30-06 vs. .308 and an added bonus thread The .30-30 is obsolete as a deer hunting round.

[Lonegun1894]

Don't forget the argument as to which is a better obsolete cast boolit round, the .30-30 or the 7.62x51R!

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

s! ;)

[Tenbender]

Would you rather get hit by a Chevy or a Mack ?

[Lead Fred]

166945

[Tenbender]

The judge ask " Why did you buy a 45 " Answer. Because I couldn't get a 46 !

[runfiverun]

no but you could get a 50 on a 45 frame but nobody did.
I love these versus things.
well not love them, I get a kick out of them.
there is no versus when it comes to a 452 diameter anything when it's a 355.
yeah it's faster but so is the 9x21 and the 9x23.
if speed were the big deal then we all would be buying those or the 357 sig instead of the wonder-nine or the 45.
the 38 super has had 100 years to be popular too instead of a cult round.
so the time argument is a non event, the betterment is a non argument, we have had better 9's the whole time it's just that nobody cared.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

.....

[w5pv]

I've seen people killed with everything from a .22 Short (yes, an actual .22 Short) to 12 gauge shotgun. They were all dead, but the time it took them to die varied greatly. Hits to vital areas are what counts.

I get very tired of seeing "7 yards is where most gunfights occur". The times I was shot at were all way beyond 7 yards. Way, way beyond, and you better know where your gun hits at 25, 35, 50 yards and beyond, because bad guys don't read the same rule books as the good guys do. Even in cities, distances can be much greater, and if you let a bad guy get within 7 yards of you with a knife or club, and your gun is in your holster, you're going to bleed before you get it out, if you get it out at all. We proved that over and over again on the range, even with duty holsters that are exposed and easier to draw from than concealed holsters.

Practice with what you have, and then practice some more. Have someone distract you from the side while you're practicing, and if you want somewhat realistic practice, have them throw something at you, like a tennis ball, and see how that affects your aim........

And practice from the draw, since that's a whole other variable.

Hope this helps.

Fred
I have known of four people that were killed by firearms and all were done in by 22 cal guns.I have killed many farm animals with a 22 and shorts.

[Petrol & Powder]

While Marshall & Sanow's book "Stopping Power" has its critics, it still provides at least a baseline for comparisons. There are only a few ways to achieve rapid incapacitation of a human and both the 9mm and 45 ACP have proven capable of achieving rapid incapacitation.

There's a LOT of personal bias and favoritism that goes into these discussions but the bottom line is that handguns in general suck at stopping humans. We select handguns as SD tools because it's tough to carry a Remington 870 while going about your daily tasks.

If we're talking about FMJ projectiles the 45 clearly has the advantage due to greater diameter and weight.
If we are talking about modern SD ammunition, both the 9mm and 45 ACP are capable of achieving rapid incapacitation.

These discussions often utilize death of the adversary as the yard stick to measure success and that is the wrong yardstick in most self-defense situations. While death is certainly a possibility, the goal is to stop your attacker.

Getting back to Marshall & Sanow's research (which I acknowledge has its critics) we see results for the 9mm +P HP and 45 ACP HP that are statistically equal. In fact the 9mm actually ranks slightly higher, although not significantly higher.


These types of macabre discussions are rarely scientific and by nature, rely on second hand anecdotal evidence at best.

[Ural Driver]

I was taught many years ago, the main function of my sidearm...is to fight my way to a bigger gun.

[ole 5 hole group]

Look up the thread "45 or 44" posted back around 2010 in this forum section - ole masterguns lays it out pretty well, as to caliber effectiveness when everything else is equal.

[kawasakifreak77]

.357 mag ;)

[bouncer50]

The FBI is going back to the 9mm dumping the 40 caliber. A old 38-40 Colt is the only 40 caliber i have. I never had any use for a 40 S&W either it been 9mm or 45 acp caliber for me in automatic pistol.

[bangerjim]

357mag or 44mag wheel guns........now there is a choice!

If 'ya can't get 'er done in 6 shots, might as well throw the darned gun at them!

banger

[kawasakifreak77]

If 'ya can't get 'er done in 6 shots, might as well throw the darned gun at them!

banger

Can I get an amen!

I grew up with six shooters & bolt guns. Still can't get used to these new fangled automatics that hold half a box of shells.. they even load themselves!

[bangerjim]

AMEN!!!!!!!!

Semi's are more of a "spray-n-pray" shooting philosophy in my book. I have them all and rarely shoot them anymore. Give me a l-o-n-g barrel 357 or 44 and I am in hog heaven! Even a 45 LONG colt (not ACP).

Still waiting for a failure to chamber/failure to cycle/failure to eject with my wheelguns!!!!!! They just WORK! EVERYTIME. No worries about OAL. They eat everthing I stuff in them.

Good shootin' to all....no matter which poison you pick!

banger

[Schrag4]

One problem with the "If you can't get it done with 6 (or 7 or 8) rounds..." argument is that you might face more than one aggressor. I don't have the stats in front of me, but I believe they show that 6 rounds is barely enough to take on 2 people, due to the relative ineffectiveness of virtually ALL handgun calibers, 45ACP included, alongside the fact that people generally perform worse under that kind of stress. Yes, I realize that if your odds of needing your gun are one in a ten thousand, the odds of going up against 3 or more people are that much more astronomical.

If you carry a spare mag in a place where you can quickly access it and regularly practice slide-lock reloads, then it's not nearly as much of an issue. I've seen some blazing fast reloads, but most people will never work at it enough to be able to do it so fast.

As for semi's being "spray-n-pray," I agree to a point. While I can put rounds where I want quickly and accurately, I also have the option of shooting 15 times before I have to use the sights :-p

[35remington]

If you go against three or more people, you'll get shot yourself before you can shoot them all. A flaw in the argument the "high capacity" guys like to overlook. If they are in close proximity and don't have a gun themselves, one or more individuals can close to knife distance, or simply take you down, again, before you can shoot them all.

Don't go against multiple people if you can avoid it. High capacity or not.

[Ramjet-SS]

Who the hell shoots ball ammo for SD.......?

[bangerjim]

Well, I do not worry about "going against 3 or more people" around here. The circles and society I move in are pretty safe and never have crime or attacks like that. If I worked and moved in areas that were really "dodgy" I would carry a multi-shot 40 S&W. But there is absolutely not need.

So many on here brag about what they carry and how "many" they can shoot in 5 seonds, but I seriously doubt any of us have ever been in such a fight in their own neighborhoods! Or lived to tell about it. If so, you might want to consider moving. And I am NOT referring to military service.

Just the view from my end of the net wire.

banger

[35remington]

As I mentioned....."going against" multiple people is not a recipe for survival no matter how much ammo your gun holds. Given even average reaction times in your opponents, you'll get shot or taken down. All are shooting at you or coming at you. You must divide your fire....not terribly survivable on your end.

[Walkingwolf]

Who the hell shoots ball ammo for SD.......?

Who ever wants to...

[GhostHawk]

My answer is pretty simple. For a given range, standard ammo, I ask myself.
Given the choice which would I choose to be shot with.

Funny the answer mostly keeps coming up .22 then 9mm.

Now when it comes to being on the trigger end there are a lot more choices, more decisions to make, it gets tougher to choose.
Guns come into it, ammo load, # of rounds available before magazine change required, etc. Weight of ammo load, cost, the variations seem endless.

But if I had to reach for something to put something bad down, .45 would get my vote.

But I prefer to practice with the 9mm, less lead expended, less recoil.

So there is no perfect answer until someone discovers Star Wars type blasters or Star Trek Phasers.

[Garyshome]

Someone forget to add .40S&W?

[bangerjim]

That is what I said I would carry if I ever needed it. My 40XDM is an excellent performer and is dead accurate and eats everything and anything I feed it!

banger

[cainttype]

Getting back to Marshall & Sanow's research (which I acknowledge has its critics) we see results for the 9mm +P HP and 45 ACP HP that are statistically equal. In fact the 9mm actually ranks slightly higher, although not significantly higher.

These types of macabre discussions are rarely scientific and by nature, rely on second hand anecdotal evidence at best.

http://pistolsmith.com/ammunition/1420-street-stoppers-fackler-print.html

This link will help anyone interested in this subject to understand the confusion caused by incompetent "research" being published and promoted as reliable information.

[Lead Fred]

Nine is smaller than 40 right, we go to you tube and type "police shoot dog.
and see how many rounds it takes to stop a big dog.

So how is the nine sposed to be better than a 40

I know first hand it takes one round each 45ACP, to stop two charging dobies.
The cool part is watching their heads snap backwards as the 230gr hits bone

[357Mag]

Bouncer -

Howdy !

IMHO - If you review the specs for the top-rated one-shot " stoppers "; you'll see that they all deliver about 425 ft lb or better for their best rated loads.
The highly regarded Rem 125JHP .357Mag generated a significantly greater amount of energy, still. The .40 S & W has multiple factory loads that can attain this level of energy.

9mm + P and .38Spl +P were an attempt to get these cartridges closer to a more suitable energy level for serious CCW work. But, they are not in the top tier of
one-shot stoppers.


With regards,
.357Mag

[swmass]

I wouldn't feel under armed with either but at the end of the day I'm going with capacity. I know it's not true but I've heard it said a few times.. "You'll never meet someone that was in a gun fight that carries less rounds after." Something like that anyway...Makes sense to me. The 9 has proven itself plenty. So has the 45.. So, I'm going with the one they carries more ammos! Plus the 9mm is easier to shoot in a glock or similar polymer firearm small enough to carry comfortably. Even for house duty, I'd rather have the extra rounds.

[6bg6ga]

Since this is a 9mm vers a 45acp thread that is what I will go with. This has been a on off on off topic for years. My son for example carries a 9mm while I was carrying a 1911. His arguement was you have more rounds with a 9mm and more chances to put down an attacker. My comment was this... I have 6 rounds in my Colt officers that I carry. If I can't hit what I've aimed at then I will throw the gun at them when they get close enough. I'm profficient with anything I put in my hand. My favorite will always be a 1911 simply because it hits harder in my opinion than a 9mm. I'm not impressed with ballistic gel because I've see human tissue damage. The 45 puts a nice hole in what it hits. The 9mm puts a smaller hole in its target. The 45 tends to pick up and set down a human being. Don't need no so called special ammunition that I haven't practiced with. I carry what I shoot with on a normal basis. So, you like the 9mm then carry it and don't worry about being able to hit your target simply because you have those extra rounds. I figure that having to use what I carry is going to be a last ditch effort. No one wants to shoot and kill another human being period. We carry so we can protect ourselves and those we love and not for the thrill of shooting another human being.

[garym1a2]

Mine is a 9mm Glock19 Gen3 with 14 in the mag. For the house its a Glock21sf with 13 in mag.

[Lloyd Smale]

my idea on 9 vs 45 isn't in guns the same size. The two big reasons I like and shoot 9s so much is in my big 9s (that I don't carry) there cheap to shoot and have very little recoil. In the 9s I do carry I'm not doing it to have 18 rounds I'm doing it to have 7 in the smallest package that combines decent round capacity with enough power to take care of business. I can carry a glock 43 or an M&P or a compact xd a lot easier then I can a 1911. Don't get me wrong IF I WAS ever in a fight id prefer having a 1911 and the good old 45 but you have to look at compromises. Chances are I'm NEVER going to need my gun. So I'm not carrying around a 18 shot 9mm or a 15 shot 40 or a full sized 1911. I carry a small 9 or 40 knowing that IF I DO need to defend myself they will take care of business if I do and I can carry them all day long with about any type of clothing and forget there even on my side. that and factor in my first use. Theres nothing more fun for the buck then an 18 shot 9mm or a ar15 in 9mm. It cost about the same as a 22 to shoot (cheaper these days) and its a lot more fun and those two guns still make good bed side companions or shtf senerio guns. Ill allways own a few 1911s but like I said for 500 bucks a high capacity 9 can bring lots of smiles.
Since this is a 9mm vers a 45acp thread that is what I will go with. This has been a on off on off topic for years. My son for example carries a 9mm while I was carrying a 1911. His arguement was you have more rounds with a 9mm and more chances to put down an attacker. My comment was this... I have 6 rounds in my Colt officers that I carry. If I can't hit what I've aimed at then I will throw the gun at them when they get close enough. I'm profficient with anything I put in my hand. My favorite will always be a 1911 simply because it hits harder in my opinion than a 9mm. I'm not impressed with ballistic gel because I've see human tissue damage. The 45 puts a nice hole in what it hits. The 9mm puts a smaller hole in its target. The 45 tends to pick up and set down a human being. Don't need no so called special ammunition that I haven't practiced with. I carry what I shoot with on a normal basis. So, you like the 9mm then carry it and don't worry about being able to hit your target simply because you have those extra rounds. I figure that having to use what I carry is going to be a last ditch effort. No one wants to shoot and kill another human being period. We carry so we can protect ourselves and those we love and not for the thrill of shooting another human being.

[Teddy (punchie)]

Whichever one you shoot well and have confidence in.

I'd much rather face someone with a 44 mag who shoots 6 rounds a year, than someone with a 22 who shoots thousands.

I'm the odd ball LOL. Time after time I'll place the first shot out of the 44, first shot almost dead on, after that just stand still I'll odds on your side I'll miss. Not all that bad but one day Shot a 50 yd. free hand dead on target bullseye rest were all over the target, 30 " square. I always been better on the first shot, not bad shooter but I'm a hunter not a target shooter. Don't miss too many deer if I start shooting.

I'll take the 9mm , but 45 would be a okay gun.

[Teddy (punchie)]

357mag or 44mag wheel guns........now there is a choice!

If 'ya can't get 'er done in 6 shots, might as well throw the darned gun at them!



banger

44 to carry the 9 inch barrel , LOL I was heading to Pittsburgh and wife said where is it a bad area?? We were looking at a car. It was a good area. But I told the guy, if you had us in a ?? part of the city, I would have had a 44 with me and the people that needed see it would have. One handed at 50 yds. your looking to do what with a 45 or 9 , I have the 44 loaded to take a deer out to 80 yds. if placed good will have energy to take a 120 yds shot, but 50 is where I normaly would stop, with a 25 yds shot being what I like. Yes I shoot pistol old school one handed.

[Loudy13]

Would you rather get hit by a bike or a bus?

[Teddy (punchie)]

Back the question , 9 mm with heavy spring loaded to spring and adding a 150-300 ft. of speed to the bullet. Shoot one handed.

Ever run or move while shooting, LOL is all I say about two handed shooting. Boys it hard to shoot chasing these pheasant they stock in PA, buddy was running to get ready for a 20 mile run, seen a pheasant well he found out, lol told him he needs a pistol shotgun shoot one handed. I told him I feel pistols should be shot one handed old school. Ever point with both hands?? Do you aim a pistol or point? I practice both.

I ever time here a story about the police shooting so many rounds why ?? I can see a couple each but like 5-6 each what are they doing ??

[Teddy (punchie)]

Would you rather get hit by a bike or a bus?

Buss at about 35 mph or faster end it fast.

[Thumbcocker]

Regarding multiple attackers and capacity. This guy was good and lucky. http://americanhandgunner.com/the-jonathan-davis-incident/

[725]

What Fred said.

[35remington]

He was lucky. One thing he didn't have was a lot of ammo and had to switch revolvers and finally to a knife. Any single stack pistols and a spare magazine was more ammo and more reload capability than he had.

[jmort]

I am certain the 9mm ammo I use will solve any problem I encounter. I am sure the .45 ACP will solve any problem I encounter. My main 9mm bullet is the Ranch Dog 135 grain RFP. Per Ranch Dog:

" I have no doubt in the ability of the bullet in self defense shooting. I have killed a number of "man" size feral hogs with shots through the rib cage, behind the shoulder and the bullet does what it was intended to do."

I also use +P+ Underwood ammunition that is north of 450 ft lbs

[OS OK]

:killingpc…this'll never end…that's why I switched to 'hand grenades' and a camo T-shirt…you won't even see me coming!

OS OK...:bigsmyl2:

[Petrol & Powder]

:killingpc…this'll never end…that's why I switched to 'hand grenades' and a camo T-shirt…you won't even see me coming!

OS OK...:bigsmyl2:

You're one of the few people on this thread that gets it.

[Whiterabbit]

Who the hell shoots ball ammo for SD.......?

32 acp.

[iomskp]

I think that the sun shines brighter on 45 owners.

[OS OK]

You're one of the few people on this thread that gets it.

Ya think? …:bigsmyl2:

charlie

[white eagle]

I do carry 45 acp and 9mm pistols but 16 rounds vs 8 rounds makes you think which is better to carry.:eek:

You answered your own question
it takes 2/9mm to = 1,45acp

[Bigslug]

The average handgun shooter can't shoot very well, and 9mm at least helps these folks by taking a lot of anticipation/flinch/trigger slap issues out of the mix. A .45 in the right hands will create a marginally faster bleed out, but couple tenths of an inch of extra diameter in the wound channel don't mean much when you botch the shot multiple inches away from where you wanted it to go.

Capacity? If you can't solve the problem in a fat half-dozen, you probably won't live long enough to fire more, and the fat grip of the average 15 rounder often compromises a shooter's ability to grip and manipulate the pistol properly. The 1911 got this right - it fits your fist and has about all the rounds you're likely to have time for.

Foot pounds of energy as a stopping power gauge? It's B.S. Move past it.

The main item that kicked off the "9mm is inferior" mindset was the lightweight, high-speed HP's of the mid 1980's that didn't penetrate well. That problem got solved in the early '90's. The current product is basically duplicating the old 158 grain FBI .38 +P's - and those worked.

So what we need is for Glock and others to start making duty-size, BUT SINGLE STACK 9mm's of about 9-11 round capacity that actually fit the human hand. The midgets, women, and pogues will be able to shoot them and still have a tool that effectively does the job.

[6bg6ga]

What started out as yet another 9mm vers 45acp thread AKA P**is envy thread. Both will do the job in the right hands. Shot placement of multiple rounds = damage that probably cannot be repaired in time to save the attacker boo hoo. I will always have my favorite and as I mentioned in a prior post it is my 1911 officers. My second carry gun is my Glock model 23 which I normally have setup for the standard 40 cal but I do have a aftermarker 9mm lone wolf barrel and two Glock 19 mags to complete the caliber change over. My thoughts after reading all the posts have changed a little. I cannot say that a 45 in the wrong hands is a good choice but I can say that a 9mm or 40 in the right hands = success. Shots placed where they need to be = a life saved. Now to the +P and man stopper ammunition.... I don't believe in it for several reasons. First of all the added possible recoil from the normal ammunition may be more than some can handle and therefore the possibility of shots being placed either off target or target missed completely. Secondly, if one is faced with putting down an attacker and possible charges are contemplated by the law enforcement are they going to view the man stopper AKA maximum stopping power ammunition as a factor in trying to hang your tail?

[Shiloh]

Think of a .45 as a bowling ball, the 9mm as a baseball. LOTS more wallop with .45

SHiloh