New caster needs help with Lyman 452424 mould issues...

[Tom Herman]

Hi Folks,

I just started casting a couple of months ago with the Lyman 452424 double cavity .255 gr .451" SWC mould.
Things went well for a while (maybe 600 boolits), now I can't cast crap with it!
The symptoms are that the mould sticks together and I have to use a lot of force to separate the halves, even without boolits in them!
If you look at the seams, the moulds look warped (but aren't). No matter how much of a death grip I put on them, I simply can't get the two halves to fully close.
As a result, I'm casting boolits with a heavy fin (good for '59 Caddys, but not here!).
The Lyman mould handles are loose, and the mould also jiggles at the attachment to the handles. This leaves me with a mould that flops all over the place when I open and close it.
I notice that the pins on one half of the mould are peening the mould and holes on the other half.
If this mould is supposed to last a lifetime, then something is dreadfully wrong!
I notice on my RCBS .455 Webley mould that the pins are at least twice the size of the Lyman's, have a much gentler slope, and the holes are bevelled to allow easier indexing. No wear problems with that one!
So, this begs the questions:

1: Did I get a bad mould?
3: It's only 2 months old, should I mess with it or return it to Midway?
2: What am I doing wrong?

Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated! I enjoy casting, and would like to get on with it.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom

[Brownie]

I really could not say what is wrong with your mold without seeing it. I have one Lyman mold that seems to stick on one dowel pin when I try to open it, it opens ok if I turn it upside down then open it. also, the last two Lyman molds that I bought both had problems that I had to fix before they would work right.

[454PB]

It sounds like the alignment pins (or maybe only one) have moved, probably inwards towards the cavities. They can be reset, but it has to be done carefully to avoid peening them. I use a brass hammer to move them outwards (away from the cavities) and a brass rod placed through the hole to move them inwards (towards the cavities). It takes some experimentation to figure out which way to move them, but re-read sentence #1. I lay them on a towel to pad the block halves as the pins are moved.

[Dale53]

I KNOW what is happening. You may be used to handles that fit "precisely" and you can get away with slamming the moulds shut. Loose handles (and most ARE loose) will pay you back by peening the alighnment pin holes which then will not allow the blocks to close completely.

VERY careful "deburring" with a Swiss needle file will remove the "burr" without damaging the mould any further. Careful work will then allow the mould to return to service.

Hot bullet moulds are SOFT (even if made of iron) and are VERY easily damaged.

The solution is to simply use great care when you close the mould and be CERTAIN the mould is aligned properly before closing. You do NOT slam the moulds closed or you'll be right back where you started.

This is NOT a personal attack but merely meant to be a careful warning so you do not have this problem again.

I was showing a friend how to cast bullets for the first time. I had told him that bullet moulds were delicate - like a favored watch in delicacy. I apparently did not emphasize this enough. I left him for no longer than three minutes and when I returned my prized mould was working like yours (wouldn't completely close and caused finned bullets).

Just carefully repair this and chalk it up to experience. We all make mistakes. The only sin is making the same mistake TWICE.

Good luck!
Dale53

[HeavyMetal]

Yep! Teaching can be.....tedious.

My good freind John had bugged me to show him how to reload, I have a dillon 550, finally caved and let him in the workshop.

The Dillon had been bolted to my work bench for 2 .5 yrs. In 20 minutes he pulled it off TWICE.

Told him it wasn't his fault and suggested he drive down and get us something cold to drink,I locked the door as soon as he cleared it!

We still shoot when he's in town but he knows he's not allowed in the shop.

[Tom Herman]

Thanks Dale53, Brownie, 454PB, and heavyMetal,

I appreciate your inputs! No, Dale, what you said is well taken, and I do not see it as a personal attack.
What you said makes perfect sense, and whatever happened to the mold is chaulked up to the learning process.
Just as I don't slam the crane shut on a revolver, I shouldn't be banging die halves together.
I'm obviously still learning what can and can't be done to moulds, and how to handle them.. I will endeavor to *carefully* align and shut the mold halves and not slam them.
I'll also very carefully file the peened area on the mould half, and see what that does for the sticking problem.
And heavyMetal, thanks for the story on the RL-550! I can appreciate that. I've put over 100,000 rounds through mine.
In other areas, I have delicate electronics equipment, and simply refuse to loan any of it to 90% of the so called "technicians" out there as the stuff will come back as broken junk if it comes back at all. I'll show folks how to use it, but it's a short loan list indeed.

Happy Shootin'! -Tom




I KNOW what is happening. You may be used to handles that fit "precisely" and you can get away with slamming the moulds shut. Loose handles (and most ARE loose) will pay you back by peening the alighnment pin holes which then will not allow the blocks to close completely.

VERY careful "deburring" with a Swiss needle file will remove the "burr" without damaging the mould any further. Careful work will then allow the mould to return to service.

Hot bullet moulds are SOFT (even if made of iron) and are VERY easily damaged.

The solution is to simply use great care when you close the mould and be CERTAIN the mould is aligned properly before closing. You do NOT slam the moulds closed or you'll be right back where you started.

This is NOT a personal attack but merely meant to be a careful warning so you do not have this problem again.

I was showing a friend how to cast bullets for the first time. I had told him that bullet moulds were delicate - like a favored watch in delicacy. I apparently did not emphasize this enough. I left him for no longer than three minutes and when I returned my prized mould was working like yours (wouldn't completely close and caused finned bullets).

Just carefully repair this and chalk it up to experience. We all make mistakes. The only sin is making the same mistake TWICE.

Good luck!
Dale53

[Tom Herman]

Hi Dale,

You were dead nuts on target with the problems I had!
Today I bought a small triangular file (you have to use what's available) and very carefully filed down the metal raised by slamming the mould halves together.
That alone helped, but the halves still stuck.
Then, I put the half with the pins on a brass base, and gingerly tapped a brass rod over the pins, and carefully pushed the pins into the mould a little at a time.
I found that sweet spot where the halves don't wobble, but come apart easily when the handles are opened.
The result? Good bullets without fins, and a mould that works well!
I can't tell you how happy I am that this problem is solved, and that I'm back in business once more!
Thanks to everyone for their help and advice.

Happy Shootin! -Tom

(and, yes, I carefully close the mould halves now!)



I KNOW what is happening. You may be used to handles that fit "precisely" and you can get away with slamming the moulds shut. Loose handles (and most ARE loose) will pay you back by peening the alighnment pin holes which then will not allow the blocks to close completely.

VERY careful "deburring" with a Swiss needle file will remove the "burr" without damaging the mould any further. Careful work will then allow the mould to return to service.

Hot bullet moulds are SOFT (even if made of iron) and are VERY easily damaged.

The solution is to simply use great care when you close the mould and be CERTAIN the mould is aligned properly before closing. You do NOT slam the moulds closed or you'll be right back where you started.

This is NOT a personal attack but merely meant to be a careful warning so you do not have this problem again.

I was showing a friend how to cast bullets for the first time. I had told him that bullet moulds were delicate - like a favored watch in delicacy. I apparently did not emphasize this enough. I left him for no longer than three minutes and when I returned my prized mould was working like yours (wouldn't completely close and caused finned bullets).

Just carefully repair this and chalk it up to experience. We all make mistakes. The only sin is making the same mistake TWICE.

Good luck!
Dale53

[Dale53]

It fairly warms the cockles of my heart when I can help some one. Some people, unfortunately, cannot be helped. It is OBVIOUS that you do NOT fall into this category. Thanks for letting us know the outcome.

Congratulations on the repair. Dern near everything that I have learned has come at a price, too. Hopefully, both of us will have minor pain in the future as we continue on our path to learning:mrgreen:.

Dale53

[jleneave]

I am glad that I ran across this tread. I am having the exact same problems with a Lyman #429421 4 cavity mold. The first 400 to 500 bullets were perfect and then slowly started getting worse by casting a larger diameter bullet, heavier bullets, and of course fins. After reading this post I got the mold out and looked at it and sure enough I have "peened" the area around all three of the holes for the alignment pins. I will attemp to reapair it per the above directions. Thanks again for starting this thread and for the directions to fix the mold. I was about at my wits end with this mold. I will let you know how the repair goes if any of you are interested.

Jody

[454PB]

It's strictly theory on my part, but I think the alignment pins moving is what causes the peening. As they move towards the cavities they become out of alignment with the recesses they fit into, start banging the edge of the hole, and cause peening.

[floodgate]

454PB:

That certainly IS one cause of peening, and is usually traceable either a lot of slop in the handle-to-block fit or slamming the blocks together trying to keep casting fast. I've always taken care to ease the blocks closed and feel for any mis-fit; it may also help to rest the bottom of the blocks on a flat wood block as you close the mould. You can actually do this without any significant loss in casting rate; it just takes a bit of extra attention to that part of the casting sequence.

floodgate

[Tom Herman]

Hi Jody,

Glad that you spotted the thread! It sounds like you fell into the same hole I did... It never occurred to me that I was hurting the mould! Now I know the error of my ways. I'm glad I didn't destroy the mould in the process.
I ever so carefully close them now!
Cool on the 4 cavity 429421! It's on my list as the next mould/caliber I'll reload for.
When/if my economic stimulus check comes in, that's what I'll tool up for.
Ironically, the .44 SPL is what drove me to get into casting in the first place!
I picked up a nice S & W 624 with a 6" BBL... No matter what commercial cast bullets I bought, they all horrifically leaded the bore, even the ones guaranteed never to lead! I wound up collecting on that offer...
Anyways, I bought the Lyman .45 LC to get me going, with the intention of switching to the .44's once I got the .45's mastered.
Let me know how your fix goes, and how your boolits come out!
BTW: I used a brass block uner my mould half when I peened it. Use leather or some other surface protection if you use a hard surface. Not having a brass rod to drive the pin in, I used a brass screw.
And be careful in filing! Try just a little at a time... I tried filing down an old, crappy mould I got suckered into buying. Better to ruin it first, but even it looks like it might be salvageable.
I may be a slow learner, but I do learn!

Happy Shootin'! -Tom


I am glad that I ran across this tread. I am having the exact same problems with a Lyman #429421 4 cavity mold. The first 400 to 500 bullets were perfect and then slowly started getting worse by casting a larger diameter bullet, heavier bullets, and of course fins. After reading this post I got the mold out and looked at it and sure enough I have "peened" the area around all three of the holes for the alignment pins. I will attemp to reapair it per the above directions. Thanks again for starting this thread and for the directions to fix the mold. I was about at my wits end with this mold. I will let you know how the repair goes if any of you are interested.

Jody

[Tom Herman]

Thanks, Floodgate. I'll keep a block of wood handy. Makes sense to me!

Happy Shootin'! -Tom



454PB:

That certainly IS one cause of peening, and is usually traceable either a lot of slop in the handle-to-block fit or slamming the blocks together trying to keep casting fast. I've always taken care to ease the blocks closed and feel for any mis-fit; it may also help to rest the bottom of the blocks on a flat wood block as you close the mould. You can actually do this without any significant loss in casting rate; it just takes a bit of extra attention to that part of the casting sequence.

floodgate

[454PB]

454PB:

That certainly IS one cause of peening, and is usually traceable either a lot of slop in the handle-to-block fit or slamming the blocks together trying to keep casting fast. I've always taken care to ease the blocks closed and feel for any mis-fit; it may also help to rest the bottom of the blocks on a flat wood block as you close the mould. You can actually do this without any significant loss in casting rate; it just takes a bit of extra attention to that part of the casting sequence.

floodgate

I agree 100%. I use a lot of Lee aluminum moulds, and I quit lubricating them long ago. I use my "sprue knocker" to align the mould halves from underneath as you describe as I close them gently. That's really all the recommended lubing of Lee moulds does....it allows the alignment ribs and matching depressions to fall together. If you guide them together, you don't need it, and you don't get lube into the mould cavities.