32-40 in John Wayne Carbine with 239 grain 8mm Mauser boolets?

[DonMountain]

I have a Winchester 94 John Wayne Commerative rifle I bought back in the early 80's after seeing it in the display case at the local WalMart store for years. Since then it has been sitting in the back of my gun cabinet gathering dust. Since I am past retirement age and getting older, I figured that I might as well get it out and shoot it and enjoy it before I die and it gets sold with my estate. So, watching some of the other threads about shooting 32-40 Win rifles and converting brass for their use, I am looking at converting some 30-30 Win brass, which is about 0.1" short, and then seating a Lee mold KAR 239 grain gas checked boolet intended for the 8mm Mauser resized from the 0.325" die down to a 0.321" die to fit the rifle's bore. This boolet is heavy for the 32-40, and has a long, flat nose on it which works in the magazine tube as when seated to the correct location in the case, it come out with the correct over all length of cartridge. So, my questions are, has anybody fired such a heavy boolet from a 32-40 as the standard weight for them is 170 grains? And what sort of loads, powders and primers do you think would work for this heavy of a boolet? Or is this heavy of a boolet to much for the John Wayne Commerative Winchester model 94? I would like to try taking a deer with it back in the woods. But generally use it for target shooting.

[Outpost75]

Standard twist in .32-40 is 16" vs. 9.8" for 8mm, I seriously doubt your '94 will stabilize that bullet. You are better off getting a 160-170 grain bullet intended for the .32-40

[stubbicatt]

I shoot a 200 grain Saeco "Pope Style" tapered bullet in a 15 twist Douglas barrel, and it will stabilize just fine, whether breach seated or from fixed ammo. I would think your rifle would shoot better with a 170 - 180 grain bullet.

I guess there is no way to find out other than to give it a try and see how it does. I would expect that bullet to keyhole, however. Oh, I would leave it at .323" or .324". If your expander plug doesn't like that choice, BACo sell a custom 2 step plug that will expand your case necks to whichever dimension you like. It isn't expensive at $20, and I really like mine. It just threads into the RCBS expander die.

As far as converting brass goes, I've never tried to convert 30-30. I have had really good luck resizing 38-55 brass from Starline. I lost 4 or 5 cases just running them through the 32-40 RCBS die. I have determined to anneal next time before the conversion. As it is, I have a handy stockpile of useable brass that shoots just fine.

IMR4759 or 4227 is a dandy powder in 32-40 with cast bullets. There are other powders, such as 3031 that work pretty good too. The problem is finding data for the cartridge at this point, as it doesn't show up in reloading manuals all that often. The current Lyman Cast Bullet manual has a short section on bullets/powders for the cartridge, including the 200 grain Saeco bullet, and an RCBS offering. (I think that is the only time I have seen other than Lyman mould data in a Lyman manual.)

[DonMountain]

I shoot a 200 grain Saeco "Pope Style" tapered bullet in a 15 twist Douglas barrel, . . .

I guess there is no way to find out other than to give it a try and see how it does. I would expect that bullet to keyhole, . . . .

IMR4759 or 4227 is a dandy powder in 32-40 with cast bullets. . . . The problem is finding data for the cartridge at this point, as it doesn't show up in reloading manuals all that often. The current Lyman Cast Bullet manual has a short section on bullets/powders for the cartridge, including the 200 grain Saeco bullet, and an RCBS offering. (I think that is the only time I have seen other than Lyman mould data in a Lyman manual.)

I have some SR4759 powder that I use for cast boolets in rifles. Would you care to suggest some loadings for this with the 239 grain boolet in the 32-40 for some trial loads? I will back these suggestions up with my experience with other cartridges of course and loading data from my other manuals.

[stubbicatt]

I have some SR4759 powder that I use for cast boolets in rifles. Would you care to suggest some loadings for this with the 239 grain boolet in the 32-40 for some trial loads? I will back these suggestions up with my experience with other cartridges of course and loading data from my other manuals.

I can tell you that 13.5 grains is where I started with the 200 grain bullet I shoot. I would think that to be a decent starting place. My 32-40 rifle is a Winchester High Wall and is a modern smokeless barrel, and I don't think that I would worry about pressure per se at these load levels in that rifle. I think with the tapered case, the first sign you have pressure issues is difficult extraction, and you would be way over any recommended pressure levels for the cartridge before you got there. The 1894 is *reputedly* not as strong an action as the high wall, so I'd recommend you keep that in mind.

I cannot say what would be the upper limit, but I would not exceed 14.5 grains, which is where I arbitrarily set my upper limit. I did this because I'm shooting plain based bullets, and I wanted to keep it under 1500 fps for sure, since I am using a 20-1 alloy to facilitate breach seating. (I haven't chronoe'd this load yet, so I don't know its speed with my bullet)

I did shoot a few at that load, and didn't notice any pressure signs at all. I'm not sure what to tell you about adjusting your load for that 10% heavier bullet. If in doubt, load some 1 1/2F Black powder and have a lot of fun at surely safe pressures.

The usual disclaimers apply here of course, and I take no responsibility for any issues you might have with these loads. As always, work up slowly and see where it takes you.

[DonMountain]

Well, I resized the 30-30 brass, which turned out about 0.10" short, and seated the 239 grain Lee 8mm KAR boolet over 12.0 grains of SR4759 powder and seated the boolet to the proper over-all-length of 2.50". Then tried chambering the round, to discover that it runs into the rifling and needs to be seated so the OAL is about 2.40" long. I guess the boolet is too large. Although I guess I could seat it deeper into the case and try firing it. Or go buy another mold. But molds are getting so expensive now that it kind of restricts my desires to keep purchasing more of them.

[rpludwig]

just seat it deeper, I use 32 spec boolits w/30/30 brass for 32-40 , no problem, 2.50 is max OAL by my books...

[OverMax]

Cast pics offers its users a couple on line older Lyman manuals that have 32-40 recipes. I use the recipes that came with my Lee dies. I also have made brass for my 1894 from 38-55. But I annealed those 38-55s first thing.

[DonMountain]

Cast pics offers its users a couple on line older Lyman manuals that have 32-40 recipes. I use the recipes that came with my Lee dies. I also have made brass for my 1894 from 38-55. But I annealed those 38-55s first thing.

I didn't think to check my Lyman Ideal Handbook No. 39 for loadings. Sure enough, it has them for 32-40. It shows 13.0 grains of 4759 for a 185 grain cast plain base boolet. And much higher loads for a 174 grain gas checked boolet. So, I think the 12.0 grains of SR4759 may be safe if I set the boolet a little deeper in the case. I'll try one and see what happens.

[DonMountain]

Standard twist in .32-40 is 16" vs. 9.8" for 8mm, I seriously doubt your '94 will stabilize that bullet. You are better off getting a 160-170 grain bullet intended for the .32-40

Well, I fired two of the 239 grain boolets through my 32-40 this evening. The first one at 25 yards went right straight through at the point of aim. The second one at 50 yards went through the target about 3" low and 4" to the left, sideways. So, you are correct in your assumptions. So, now that I have the reloading dies and a sizer die for 0.321" to fit my LAM II, what else do I need? Does anybody make an inexpensive boolet mold for 170 grain 0.321 boolets designed for the lever action 32-40?

[725]

I'd check and see what Lee has in the 8mm department. Couldn't hurt to shop around.

[DonMountain]

I'd check and see what Lee has in the 8mm department. Couldn't hurt to shop around.

Lee doesn't have a flat nosed 8mm boolet mold, only a pretty sharply rounded nosed one. Both Lyman (no gas check) and RCBS (with gas check) have molds for the 32-40 at 165 and 170 grain with flat nosed design for the lever actions for about $80 each, and they are available. But I am not sure I am going to shoot this rifle enough to buy another mold that won't be used for anything else like my 30 caliber guns are.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

A little more velocity may stabilize that bullet. I shoot a 200 grain in a Marlin 336 .32 Special that groups very well ( under 3'' with no wind) at 200 yards. 16 grains 5744, it has a 16" twist. Paper patch a flat nosed .30?

[DonMountain]

A little more velocity may stabilize that bullet. I shoot a 200 grain in a Marlin 336 .32 Special that groups very well ( under 3'' with no wind) at 200 yards. 16 grains 5744, it has a 16" twist. Paper patch a flat nosed .30?

Ok, I will try that. 12.0 grains of SR4759 was a real mild load with a very soft recoil and no change in the primer rounded nature as inserted. Although it must have swelled up the case enough against the chamber since there was no soot blow-back around the reformed 30-30 casing. I will try another 2 grains of SR4759 and see what happens.

[bosterr]

I started out with my Great Grandad's Model 94 1897 vintage with boolits I tried from Montana Bullet Works. These were the RCBS #32-170 and were offered sized 3 different diameters. The original owner then sold out the business. I found a used #32-170 that I used for a while, but the cavities were off in that they didn't drop the same size bullet. I then went to Accurate Molds and asked Tom to change the 32-170A to a bigger lube groove and he came up with the #32-180C. I tried all the fast pistol powders including Unique and some SR4759 I had on hand. I settled on IMR4895 which was a little better than SR4759. Some unburned grains left in the bore but 3" groups at 100 yds. with tang sight. I really do understand not wanting to buy a bunch of molds to try, it gets pretty expensive, but I figured it was the only route for me to take. BTW, my rifle slugged at .3215 and I size to .323.

[DonMountain]

I started out with my Great Grandad's Model 94 1897 vintage with boolits I tried from Montana Bullet Works. These were the RCBS #32-170 and were offered sized 3 different diameters. The original owner then sold out the business. I found a used #32-170 that I used for a while, but the cavities were off in that they didn't drop the same size bullet. I then went to Accurate Molds and asked Tom to change the 32-170A to a bigger lube groove and he came up with the #32-180C. I tried all the fast pistol powders including Unique and some SR4759 I had on hand. I settled on IMR4895 which was a little better than SR4759. Some unburned grains left in the bore but 3" groups at 100 yds. with tang sight. I really do understand not wanting to buy a bunch of molds to try, it gets pretty expensive, but I figured it was the only route for me to take. BTW, my rifle slugged at .3215 and I size to .323.

My rifle, being brand new, has a very tight chamber and bore. With those 239 grain 8mm boolets resized to 0.321 they are still tight to the bottom of the rifling when I fire them and inspect them after retreaval. So my first choice is probably the RCBS 32-170 with gas checks because I prefer a gas checked boolet since I can shoot them a little faster for deer hunting. And this is a short-barreled carbine good for woods hunting up to maybe 50 or 60 yards or so. For longer ranges over my crop fields I tend to go for the longer range calibers and firearms using a scope. I have several RCBS steel molds and they always cast well and fit well in my guns. I looked up the Accurate Molds and their lower quality molds are made out of aluminum like the Lee Molds are, and their more desirable steel molds are pretty expensive and maybe aimed at people shooting target matches. But I just want a less expensive mold for occasional informal target shooting and deer hunting. Finding a used RCBS 32-170 mold on eBay or one of these shooting lists would probably be a long wait.

[rpludwig]

I don't cast...for 32-40 I buy 32 spec 170g .321 GC boolits from a caster who uses the RCBS mold (they come out at .3215) and weigh out at 181g w/GC & lube. Yields dime size groups @ 50yds over 21g 4895 w/30/30 brass. Why not buy 100 boolits for testing, (or I'll send you some), before investing in a mold?...beware, 32-40 can be an addictive, low recoil, fun and very accurate caliber, my current favorite...fwiw...