310 die question

[dsh1106]

Would the expander dies w/plug for the:
357
9 mm
38 auto
38 special

be the same ?, or did they make a die/plug for each caliber?


Thanks
Scott

[Outpost75]

The expander plugs are normally 0.001 less than bullet diameter. If loading cast bullets in your 9mm and .38 Super, if chambers are large enough to accept rounds loaded with .357-.358" diameter bullets, you could probably make one plug suffice for all, by readjusting the depth.

[Char-Gar]

Lyman made their 38 Special expanders .358 and their 357 Mag. expanders .357. I "think" the current production for both calibers in the combo 38/357 set is .357.

If I am loading .358 - 359 cast bullets, I use the .358 expander and when loading .357 cast bullets I use the .357. The .357 would work just fine for the larger sized bullets as well, but I have the both, so I use them both.

In my 9mms, .357 - 358 case bullet work very well and I have no trouble with the rounds so loaded feeding in my various American and Euro autopistols. I know nothing about the 38 Auto round.

I should think that if you wanted only one 310 expander, the .357 would be the one to get.

[beagle]

I'd suspect you'll find diameters all over the place. .38/.357 will usually come with a .357/.358. The 9mm may come with a .356 as that was what Lyman said the diameter was on the original Lugers and they seldom changed their mind. The .38 Auto may be .355. I'd try .358 for all and see how it plays out...........if the expander stems are the same and will interchange. From my accumulation of 310 expander plugs I have encountered 4 different threads on expander plugs./beagle

[Green Frog]

As many dies as there are floating around at gun shows and on the InterWeb, you are probably going to encounter pretty much any diameter from .355 to .359 or even .360. I would agree with friend beagle that you can probably go with a .358 as your starting point for any of the calibers mentioned and probably be fine. If you can get the bullet started without shaving lead, you're good to go since the final seating and crimping step will bring the neck size down to where it needs to be at the end. JMHO based on 40 years of loading. ;)

Froggie

[dsh1106]

Thanks for the insight.

Was just wondering with the 9mm/38super 38/357, would the dies actually be different, other than the marking?

Example: I have the 310 exp die for 9mm, is it the same as the 38super except for the marking?


Thanks
Scott

[Char-Gar]

Thanks for the insight.

Was just wondering with the 9mm/38super 38/357, would the dies actually be different, other than the marking?

Example: I have the 310 exp die for 9mm, is it the same as the 38super except for the marking?


Thanks
Scott

The diameter of the expander is stamped on top of the expander stem. This tells you what you want to know. Most likely you can switch expanders if the die body is too short or too long.

[bedbugbilly]

Scitt - I think I hear what you are asking. You are wondering if the "die body" is the same for those calibers in terms of ID and overall length - so if you had the proper expander in one of the die bodies would it work for all four? I am not where I can measure my 38 spl. and 357 dies as far as die body length but I believe that one die would work for both cartridges. I don't have a set of 9mm or 38 auto dies but I suspect that the die body will be shorter as I don't think you could adjust the 38/357 die and expander stem in the handles to do the shorter casings.

Perhaps someone who reads this and has those dies can measure the overall length and the ID of a 9mm and 38 auto expander die and compare them with the measurements of a 38/357 expander dies?

[dsh1106]

Thanks BBB, that is what I'm wondering. the only exception to your statement is, this setup is for my TLJr, not the 310 tong tool.

[woody1]

From Lyman Hbk. #38 where they list the EP for each caliber at the beginning of the load data:
.357 Mag - .357; 9mm luger - .356; .38 Colt Auto - .358; .38 Special - .358; .380 - .358
They list the same in the Ideal Quick Reference Chart that's been published from time to time. Regards, Woody

[dsh1106]

From Lyman Hbk. #38 where they list the EP for each caliber at the beginning of the load data:
.357 Mag - .357; 9mm luger - .356; .38 Colt Auto - .358; .38 Special - .358; .380 - .358
They list the same in the Ideal Quick Reference Chart that's been published from time to time. Regards, Woody

Thanks,

I see that now, I just noticed the Expansion Chamber is listed as "SPC" for 357,9mm, 38auto, 38 special, and 380 auto.

What does "SPC" stand for ???

[bedbugbilly]

A guess on my part and maybe someone can verify or correct my guess?

SPC . . . short pistol cartridge?

[dsh1106]

A guess on my part and maybe someone can verify or correct my guess?

SPC . . . short pistol cartridge?
So if that is true, then all the expansies chamber dies in that series are the same???

Can someone check the 357/38special chamber die for ID and depth? I have a 9mm chamber die to compare it to.

[Char-Gar]

So if that is true, then all the expansies chamber dies in that series are the same???

Can someone check the 357/38spc chamber die for ID and depth? I have a 9mm chamber die to compare it to.

I don't know what a "chamber die" is, but the my Lyman 310 38/357 expander die body length measures 1.570" as does my 38 Smith and Wesson expander die body. The ID is .500".

I am having a very hard times understanding what you are asking. The important question issue is the diameter of the expanding plug should match the bullets you want to use. The plug can be adjusted up and down to accommodate any length case you might have.

The only difference in 310 dies for the 310 tool and the Tru-Line Jr. is that some Tru-Line Jr. resizing dies size the case full length and the 310 dies only neck size the case. You can use the 310 neck size die in the Tru-Line Jr. press, but not the other way around. The 310 tool does not have the leverage necessary to full length size a case.

Mind you I am talking handgun dies here. Rifles dies are different matter.

[woody1]

I think the question you're asking is, can one use the plug and/or chamber for all my 38/357, 380, and other 9mm/38's?. I think so but as I think Charles said, there are various threads on the plugs. Do they vary on the 9mm/38's? I dunno with out checking. I guess I could check.
What does "SPC" stand for ??? What I see is "spec." and I think it means "special" or perhaps diff'rent enough that mebe the plugs don't fit in any of the "standards", long/short, etc. Who knows? Prob'ly Floodgate does but I don't think he hangs out here any more. Green Frog mebe?

So what is it that you really want to know 'cause diameter and length aren't the only factor. Thread size/pitch matters too. Regards, Woody

[woody1]

I have 4 35 caliber expanding chamber dies I measured. All are .5 or so ID. Three are 1.575 or so long. The 9mm is shorter at 1.335 or so. All 4 have the same thread, ie. the plugs will interchange. I would bet that with a 9mm chamber and the proper plug one could load all the calibers you have with the 9mm. My 9mm plug is .356, not .358. I also use one of the longer (1.575") chambers to load 35 Remington on a Tru-line Jr. with a Tru-line die set that didn't come with an expander for cast. One thing I didn't check was the length of the expander plugs. The threads are the same however. I gotta go get ready to irrigate. Won't be back for a while. Regards, Woody

[dsh1106]

So what is it that you really want to know Regards, Woody


I want to load 38 super, but I don't have all the dies.

My question is/was are the shell expansion dies for 9mm and 38 super and/or 357/38spc the same (except for the plug dismeter)?

Scott

[woody1]

If you have the correct size die, I'd bet you can make it work. I've found one can usually go longer but sometimes not shorter. As in, seems like I found I couldn't quite reach something when trying to load 380 with my 9mm dies but that was with the 310 tool. Regards, Woody

[bedbugbilly]

Scott - as I said . . . I don't have dies for all the calibers you are looking at. Shouldn't be any different though whether the die is for a TL Junior or a set of tongs. The expander die should be identical between those two sets for the same caliber.

The ID should be the same as well as there is no need for the brass to be supported on the circumference of the casing on the outside - the mouth is already resized from either a necking die or the combination depriming/neck resizing die - or in some cases the depriving/FL sizing dies that are sometimes found in TL Jr. sets.

Think of the Lyman "M" dies - for rifle as an example - the body of the die is either "short" or "long" depending on the length of the cartridge being loaded. The "short" body wold be used for such cartridges as the 30/30, 308 and other smaller calibers as well while the "long" body would be used for longer casings such as the 30-06, etc. The only difference being the size of the expander used in them for the caliber being reloaded . . . .397, .308, .309, etc.

Now on the TL / 310 dies . . . the one problem you "might" run in to would be if you used the same expander die body for the various cartridges you are taking about but you had to have several different sizes of expander stems. But, if the expander stems were all the same dis./thread they could easily be interchanged.

I have an early 310 (don't know if it was intended for tongs or TL Jr.) expanding die that is for the 38 Colt Short (which I load a lot of). I don't use my tongs for reloading 9mm but since I sometimes use a .358 cast boolit in the 38 Colt Short AND my 9mm, the same expander die would work for both.

No different than when I load my 38 Colt Short and 9mm using standard Lee dies - I seat and crimp in two different operations so I use a 9mm taper crimp die to crimp both the 38 Colt Short and the 9mm.

While I am not an expert by any means on the 310 dies . . . when they were made it made sense to offer the "most" with the "least" - therefor, when the 310/TL Jr die sets were made in various calibers, the same die bodies were often used but stamped for the particular cartridge sets they were part of. In some cases, as for example the expander dies, the expander stem might be the same for various calibers or it might be different depending on the size boolit they recommended being used with that caliber. My 38 and 38/357 310 dies are a good example - I have several sets as well as spare dies & Parts. On set has a .357 expander stem and one has a .358 expander . . . and I even have an individual .356 expander stem that is identical that I can substitute if I want to - and both expander die bodes are identical.

Current die makers do the same thing today. Lee for example, uses various dies in their 38 Colt Short/Long die set that they also use in other dies sets they make for other calibers. I'm sure other's do the same as it keeps production costs down by having less parts that can be used for more calibers.

Don't know if any of that helps or is worth anything but just consider it didn't coat anything either! :-)

[dsh1106]

Thanks BBB

I was hoping someone would have knowledge on these dies.

I'm just starting to play with the older tools of the trade, finding all the equipment needed to load the calibers I have has been slow going.

38 super is my favorite pistol caliber to shoot, but I haven't found a complete set of dies yet. I have managed to find a FL sizing die, but the expander die and the seating die are still MIA.

In hindsight, I guess the question I could have asked was, "Are 9mm dies and 38 super dies the same except for the FL sizer die"

Thanks for the insight on these tools.

Scott

[Char-Gar]

I find these threads very frustrating. A fellow asks a question and wants a "yes" or "no" answer and nobody, including me, can give that direct answer. However, a ton of information is given that would allow somebody to answer their own question. The fellow still keep asking for a "yes" or "no" answer and doesn't seem to be able to break the code and answer his own question.

I am tempted to make an observation about the breakdown of critical thinking skill is today's society and the desire of folks for simplistic answers without the need to think. But that is for another day.

Scott, you have all the information you need. Get out some tools and start taking measurements. If all else fails, buy a freaking 38 Special expanding die on Ebay, they are not rare and it will only cost a few bucks. It will either work or it won't, but to about a 99% certainly it will work with the proper size expanding plug. Take a chance and learn something on your own.

[dsh1106]

I find these threads very frustrating. A fellow asks a question and wants a "yes" or "no" answer and nobody, including me, can give that direct answer. However, a ton of information is given that would allow somebody to answer their own question. The fellow still keep asking for a "yes" or "no" answer and doesn't seem to be able to break the code and answer his own question.

I am tempted to make an observation about the breakdown of critical thinking skill is today's society and the desire of folks for simplistic answers without the need to think. But that is for another day.

Scott, you have all the information you need. Get out some tools and start taking measurements. If all else fails, buy a freaking 38 Special expanding die on Ebay, they are not rare and it will only cost a few bucks. It will either work or it won't, but to about a 99% certainly it will work with the proper size expanding plug. Take a chance and learn something on your own.


I guess I should have just went to EBAY, bought the dies (cause they're cheap and plentiful), tried them out, and had the answer.

Thanks for the insight and help!!!!!

[Char-Gar]

I guess I should have just went to EBAY, bought the dies (cause they're cheap and plentiful), tried them out, and had the answer.

Thanks for the insight and help!!!!!

Now you are talking Scott. There is knowledge we gain by having others give us the answers and there is knowledge we acquire by figuring things out for ourselves. The latter type is far more valuable, we own it for life and what and how we learn, transfers to other things in life. It is kind of like when we learned to feed ourselves. Once we figure that out, we don't have to sit around and wait for somebody with a spoon to come along.

Best of luck...Charles

P.S.: If you end up with a die body that is too long, send it to me and tell me how long you want it. I can trim it in the lathe. No charge of course. These 310 die bodies are butter soft and easy to trim.

[woody1]

In hindsight, I guess the question I could have asked was, "Are 9mm dies and 38 super dies the same except for the FL sizer die" Scott

No they are not. But, as I think I said, if you have the proper size die I'd bet as a practical matter you could load 38 super with 9mm dies. The DA chamber is not the same but I'll bet it'd work. You might have to hone it out a little but I doubt it. Do you, in fact, have 9mm dies? If yes, try it. Regards, Woody

edit: As an aside, are your 38 super brass nickel? If so, I'd advise not using them in TL or 310 dies. I won't because my dies end up being scratched. YMMV

[woody1]

I had time to do this 'cause it's pouring down hail and rain. I scrounged up ONE nickel 38 Super outa my junk brass. Since it was nickel I sized it in a regular carbide 9mm die which theoretically under sized the base and sure appeared to oversize the mouth. It was a Lee 9mm sizer, what can I say? No I didn't measure it. You cannot adequately expand the mouth with a 38/357 expansion chamber unless you've also got a longer expander plug than I did. The 9mm chamber works great as it's shorter. Seating - I seated the li'l' 92 grain 358292 with the 38/357 DA chamber but it appeared tight, like mebe it was a touch small. The 9mm DA and seater work like a charm except the crimp ridge limits how far the case goes in the die. This limits the amount of total adjustment one would have with the die.
The seat stem just barely goes into the die enough to reach but remember, I was using a li'l' short boolit. SO, does it work? Sure but do I know anything about 38 super? No. Regards, WOody

[dsh1106]

Thanks for the leg work Woody.

I'll have to hunt up a full set of 9mm dies and give them a try. I hope these are easier to come by than the 38 super dies, which are nonexistent.

Thanks
Scott

[woody1]

Besides the 9mm look for 38 Colt Automatic or 38 ACP.