"Rat fart" load in 30-06

[Leadsmith46]

Hello, I'm new here, and anxious to jump in and share my latest adventure. After reading and RE-reading the mouse fart thread (I am very impressed with this group and the amount of knowledge in here) I wanted to experiment with a cast boolit load for coyote. I want this load accurate to 100 yards, and a mild report is ok. Hence the name of rat fart.


The rifle I have is a 30-06 Remington 700, the cases I used are GI brass, circa WW2. I drilled out the primer flash holes to avoid case resetting and spoiling these fire formed cases. Primers were CCI 200. The powder I chose is Tite Group (powder orientation in the case does not matter with this powder). The boolit is an old favorite of mine, the Lyman 311008, and I cast it hard (BHN 22). The range I'm able to use at present is 50 yards, I'll test at 100 yards later this spring at another range. After several attempts I found that powder charge of around 6 grains was near ideal, accuracy wise. So my son & I ladder tested 5.7 through 6.1 grains of tite group. We started at the low end with three shot groups, and found the 5.9 grain load shot into one jagged hole. The further we went from 5.9 grains, the wider the groups.


It is my intention to share, not to prove or disprove any theories. I would like to say that my earlier loadings tended to follow the findings of Mr. Gordon, in that this light weight bullet was probably way over stabilized in the rifles 1 in 10 rifling. I loaded as high as 8 grains of tite group with that boolit only to find I was unable to hit the target, the "groups" were so wide.

I really appreciate this group, and the atmosphere of higher learning I find here.

[Outpost75]

TiteGroup should be a great choice. My friends and I do a great deal of shooting with subsonic gallery loads in the '06.
We've gotten best accuracy with heavier bullets around 155-165 grains, cast soft, about 8-10 BHN, with 6 grains of Bullseye.

With lighter bullets like #3118 I found accuracy was better if I kept the charges much lighter, down around 4 grains of Bullseye, but beyond 50 yards the light bullets are more wind sensitive. Groups below are 10-shots fired from an '03 Springfield with Lyman 48 rear peep and Lyman 17A aperture front sight.

166610

[Mauser48]

10 grains of 700x on a lee c309-113.

[Outpost75]

10 grains of 700x on a lee c309-113.

How many shots? How far? What case? What rifle?

[aspangler]

Try 10.5 grains of Red Dot behind a 170-ish grain booilt at abot a 10-12 bhn.

[Outpost75]

If the OP was for low noise loads, you guys are sure shooting stuff which requires ear protection!

By "Cat Sneeze", "Mouse Fart", "Rat Fart" I am presuming the OP wanted loads which were nearly silent, and at minimum load levels which would reliably exit the barrel and give utility accuracy to 50 feet or 20 yards +/-...

I am looking at 800 fps and measured peak pressure decibel reading at 1 metre from the muzzle not to exceed 90dB, what planet are you guys on????

[RU shooter]

I'll fully agree with outpost75 , 5-6 gr of Bullseye or similar powder and a mid weight bullet just plain works ! Shot many of these and even out to 200 yds yes they will travel that far with decent accuracy.

[EMC45]

When I initially heard the term "mouse fart" I chuckled. I now like "rat fart" better. On that note though....Bullets go from Pfft to BANG! real quick. I tested one out of my window into a thick pine in my back yard once with a buckshot pellet on top of a .308 case. I was expecting a "Pfft" and got a very pronounced "BANG!"

[Mauser48]

How many shots? How far? What case? What rifle?

35 yards 1903-A3 springfield, remington cases. Iron sights too. 5 shot group.

[John Boy]

I want this load accurate to 100 yards, and a mild report is ok. Hence the name of rat fart
These 'technical' words rat fart don't mean a damn thing ... what minimum velocity do you want for these reloads

[Outpost75]

These 'technical' words rat fart don't mean a damn thing ... what minimum velocity do you want for these reloads

My experience has been that with lubricated lead bullets you need 700 fps to ensure the bullets exit a rifle length barrel.

In revolvers you can go down to about 500.

[SSGOldfart]

You can push a 22caliber pellet out the barrel with just a primer add 1.5gr of bullseye and it will operate the action of a AR15 or M-16, accurate to 75 feet.my 06 does okay with the LEE-93-RN sized to.308 with two grains of Bullseye it does seem to build up a little fouling of lube after 10 to 20 rounds,but just a ring on the crown.

[Mk42gunner]

Leadsmith46,

Welcome aboard.

Any idea the velocity you are getting with 5.9 - 6.0 grains of Tite Group? Shooting groups on paper it doesn't matter; shooting coyotes, where you actually need performance, it does.

My experience with coyotes is they aren't that hard to kill, as long as you hit them right the first time. That is the hard part. Once they get their adrenalin up they become bullet sponges and can take a lot of killing.

My opinion is, you are using a .32-20 boolit, use a load that gives .32-20 velocity. That may be a bit louder than you want though.

I use 6.0 grains of Winchester 231 in a .308 with a Group buy 314-120 sized 0.311", that was patterned after the 311008. With my WW alloy it weighs 122 grains and gives 1220 fps from a 26" barrel. It is quieter than a full house load, but it isn't necessarily quiet.

At such low velocities, I highly doubt there will be any expansion with your 22BHN alloy, have you tried anything softer? My WW runs about 12.5 bhn according to my Lee hardness tester. What diameter are you sizing to?

Robert

[Mauser48]

You can push a 22caliber pellet out the barrel with just a primer add 1.5gr of bullseye and it will operate the action of a AR15 or M-16,

That really doesn't sound like it would cycle an AR-15 but I have not tested it myself.

[Leadsmith46]

Thanks for the welcome. A chronograph is in the works, but not here yet, so I'm guessing at the velocity of that load. 1800 to just under 2,000 fps is my best guess. This boolit weighs about 106 grains as cast, and I've tested them for fragmentation, and realize they will not expand.

When I coined the term "rat fart" I intended to have a round with "some" noise, and this round has as much noise as a 22 magnum rifle. Accuracy out to 100 yards was much more important to me than absolute quietness.

I tried some softer boolits this past winter, they were about BHN 15 (near Lyman no. 2 alloy), and I saw much leading and wild shot dispersion (no grouping at all). The loads I worked with back then were much hotter, no doubt causing my problems. I'm happy with the terminal ballistics of BHN 22 boolits, knowing I can place the shot where it can kill. Most of my boolit casting has been for magnum handguns, and the 45 acp, and a hard alloy is needed for magnum velocity. I get heavy lead fouling with Lyman no. 2 and softer alloys in my handguns. So I use a lot of hard (BHN 22) lead.

[ipijohn]

You can push a 22caliber pellet out the barrel with just a primer add 1.5gr of bullseye and it will operate the action of a AR15 or M-16, accurate to 75 feet.my 06 does okay with the LEE-93-RN sized to.308 with two grains of Bullseye it does seem to build up a little fouling of lube after 10 to 20 rounds,but just a ring on the crown.


I am more than a little skeptical about 1.5 gr of BE in an AR15. I load 2.3 gr to shoot in my Handi which is a great load, but 2.3 gr will not even unlock the bolt in my AR.

[35remington]

6grains TG will not be anywhere near 1800 to 2000 fps. Not even close. Much more likely is 1300 or less with that bullet. Said by a guy that's chronographed it in an 06.

[Leadsmith46]

I'll have a chrono in May, and will post a ten shot string average. If this load indeed clocks at only 1300 fps it will not do the job I need it to do. It'll be dropping too much and too slow out to 100 yards to reliably drop a coyote. If so, I am no stranger to the "drawing board".

P.S. I see I omitted the bullet size info. The best group was from .309" size. I tried other (larger and smaller) sizes and found .309 to be best. BTW my barrel slugged out measuring a tight .308" By tight, I mean .3075" would be close, if my mich would read it.


MK42Gunner, where can a guy find this 312-120 group buy boolit? Does anyone offer that mold? Is it a gas checked boolit? Thanks for any info,,,,, Steve

[Outpost75]

The NEI #69, NOE .311-155FN, HM2-312-160-5 and similar GC bullets do well in the '06 up to 200 yards with suitable charges. Here are a bunch of 100-yard groups with various loads out of my Mauser sporter with 4X hunting scope, at velocity about 1300 fps, with the 160-grain bullet energy approximates the .32-40 blackpowder round and it works fine on WV coyotes. Same bullet with 40 grains of 4064 cycles my M1 Garand at 2200 fps and approximates .30-30 energy if you want a more powerful load. I use 50-50 wheelweights and linotype, about 16 BHN, size bullets .311" and have no issues with leading if bullets are THROAT size.

Ignore groove diameter. Do a pound cast of your chamber. Read the sticky.

166822166824166826166828166829166830

[Mk42gunner]

The 314120 is a plain based boolit that was a group buy of six cavity molds from Lee several years ago. No idea where you could find any now, Maybe ask in the group buy section? I have no idea if anyone has reran it or not.


It really like to be pushed hard with LILGUN in one of my Ruger SSM's in .32 H&R Mag. It does shoot awfully high from that little gun, but the groups are tiny.

Robert

[Outpost75]

Accurate has lots of different .30 cal. rifle and .32 pistol and revolver bullets listed, any of which can be tweaked in dimensions when you order, to suit your gun and alloy, and you don't have to wait to put together a group buy. Turnaround time on custom molds is 4 weeks. I have a bunch of Tom's molds... NOT an all-inclusive list, but a few examples of his .30-.32 cal. gaschecked designs from 125-165 grains:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-120EG-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-120FG-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-125B-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-135B-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-135G-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-150BG-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-160G-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-165B-D.png

[35remington]

If your bullet does 13-1400 fps as I suspect it will be okay for coyotes at calling ranges with decent shot placement. 9 grains TG will give about 1600 fps, and both approximate moderate 32-20 loads. Plainbase bullets will not shoot well at your desired velocity range, and in all truth a plainbase won't shoot at 1600 fps either.

If you want more speed, a gascheck is in your future. If you want more speed and decent accuracy, a gascheck and a different powder are in your future. At your desired velocity range TG powder does not do well as something slower as pressures are higher than they need be.

A very fine 100 yard load is the Lee C113F over 9 grains Titegroup, Red Dot, W231, 700X, or Bullseye. Velocity approximates 1550 fps, power is ample for coyote, and accuracy more than suitable for the task. At fifty yards five shot groups routinely do near 5/8" for an average out of a Savage 30-06 using W231 or Bullseye. I am sure you could approximate that as well given a halfway decent chambering job by your rifle maker.

Not hardly a "rat fart" load, but really, no "farty" loads are 100 yard coyote capable. I'd call them 32-20 loads as that's pretty much what they are.

[Leadsmith46]

I've been reading "stickies". (I think I'll be very old before I've read them all!) There is a LOT of information on this web site.

[leeggen]

Larry Gibson has a thread just on mouse fart loads in this thread:
Recipes for mouse fart loads in 30-06
There is several people that have tryed these, I for one, I use 3.2 gr bullseye under a 93 gr lee cast boolit with LLA lube.
CD

[Leadsmith46]

Chronograph results: today I fired 2 five shot strings using my new Chrony on the "Rat Fart" load.
Shot no 1: 1296 2: 1233 3: 1275 4: 1256 5: 1280. Those were all sized to .310" and otherwise identical to the next five, witch were sized .309" and were clocked as follows: 6: 1214 7: 1180 8: 1197 9: 1191 and no 10 : 1225.

So, it is back to the drawing board for me, and I'm thinking I should have posted this blurb in the "reduced load" forum. My apologies.
On a happier note, this load would be great for coon hunters, and varminteers who don't mind making a little bit of noise.

[35remington]

That's about what I said you'd get.

That speed is hardly useless!

[Leadsmith46]

Thanks, 35. I agree the speed isn't fatal, so that load will see some use in my 700 ADL. I'm looking for a light boolit that will be effective to 100 yards. I also agree that I'll be looking at gas checks and slower powders for that load. This load at 50 yards is incredibly accurate, and FUN to shoot.

[35remington]

Best kinda load there is....fun and accurate. I think so, anyway, and most of my reduced loads for full power rifles approximate yours, as cheap helps as well. Although speed limited plainbase bullets give satisfaction in these areas.

[John Boy]

Here's some low velocity reloading data for the 30-06 - pick one:
http://www.reloadammo.com/3006load.htm