New to Black Powder - Advice requested

[mmesa005]

Hello All,

I am getting into Cowboy shooting and aside from a pair of Ruger Vaquero's I am interested in purchasing a pair of Ruger Old Army revolvers. Is there a difference between the stainless and blued finish regarding durability, cleaning, etc.?

Any other pointers, advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Omnivore]

I'd say buy the one you like. It doesn't make a whole lot of difference other than looks. The stainless won't lose its bluing with age and wear. I have Italian Remingtons in both finishes, and because they tend to need a little touch-up deburring and refitting, the stainless makes it easier for not having to re-blue anything. The Ruger on the other hand should be good to go from the factory so again it comes down to the look you prefer, more than anything. The stainless does make it a bit easier to clean in that you can see the fouling more easily, but again, it's not a difference that matters much.

At least one guy claims he runs his stainless revolver through the dishwasher. Since I'd never do that, not the least of reasons being that I don't like the idea of getting lead in my dishwasher, that wouldn't be an "advantage" I'd care about. Cleaning the gun in either finish can be reduced to a pretty simple routine anyway.

I like running a Remington repro, BUT the problem there is that the Italian guns are simply not made for the kind of use the originals received. They have under-sized chambers and they tend to be hostile to the use of paper cartridges loaded with conical bullets, among other things. That makes them "project guns", so you'll usually be working them over and tweaking them for a while before you have something that does what it should have done from the factory. From all that's been said about the Ruger it should be ready to go, but I've never owned one. Rodwha, who pipes in here from time to time, does own one or two and would have plenty to say about them.

[mmesa005]

Omnivore,

Thank you for the advice!

[Golfswithwolves]

Important Rule: "First the powder, then the ball". (This may seem obvious, but believe me it is easy to screw this order up. Don't ask me how I know).

[triggerhappy243]

when they reference smearing grease over the balls.... they mean the ones in the revolver.

[M-Tecs]

Six video's in the series. Pretty good for YouTube stuff.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WNYGs2_UZw

[rodwha]

I don't know that my stainless ROA is any easier to clean than my blued NMA. Doesn't seem to make a difference. I do like stainless though...

My only advice would be to hang on to them once you get them! Awesome gun!

Oh, and make certain you turn the loading lever locking screw in place! My first outing I had forgot to do this and bent my base pin. There aren't any aftermarket parts (other than cylinders by ClassicBallistix) so I had to bend it back into shape myself. You don't forget that once you've done it!

Ruger has a great video on disassembly.

[rodwha]

In case you ever have too many guns to clean and not enough time make sure you wipe them down inside and out with something like Ballistol. I can't vouch for anything other than Ballistol, but the idea is to saturate the fouling with oil keeping it from absorbing moisture.

I once had too many guns, over 6 hours at the range, and left my rifle with a simple quick wipe as I had read of CAS shooters claiming their guns were fine for days or more. WRONG!

Later I read of using Ballistol, which made sense, so I tried it leaving my pistol in my humid TX garage and it worked well.

[Squeeze]

when they reference smearing grease over the balls.... they mean the ones in the revolver.

Just couldn't resist...



I'd been looking at a pretty, brass-framed BP revolver in the case at Shattuck's Hardware for a couple of months, and boy! Was I ever proud the day I went in and plunked down the money for it! Eleven dollars in one dollar bills... and eighteen dollars in quarters and dimes. Old Man Shattuck was a great old guy, whose eyesight, thankfully, had gotten really bad over the years... he didn't recognize me as he sold me the .36 caliber pistol... he even threw in a box of pure lead balls with the pistol and percussion caps when I bought the pound of black powder.

I told Mr. Shattuck that I was anxious to shoot it and was heading straight for the dump, and asked him to show me how to load the gun. "It's pretty simple," I recall his telling me. "You measure your powder into the cylinder chamber, put a bullet over it, ram it down in with the hinged thing under the barrel, put your cap over a nipple, and you're set to shoot." I thanked him for his help and headed for the door.

"One last thing!" he called to me as I was running out the door, "Don't forget to put grease over your balls! Crisco works fine!" I didn't understand the need for the last part, but I stopped at Tony's Grocery and bought a little blue can of Crisco grease. And now... to the dump! Where bottles and cans, rats and crows were just waiting for this ol' cowboy to do 'em in!

I replayed Mr. Shattuck's instructions in my head as I laid out all my gear on the smothed-out, brown paper bag at my feet. The first thing I realized was that I didn't have anything to measure the powder with... UNTIL I remembered my knife! I carried one of those folding stag handled camper's knives- you know, the ones with a fork on one side and a spoon on the other? The spoon was perfect for what I needed! Very carefully (thank heaven there wasn't any wind blowing) I poured a spoonful of powder from the can into the spoon, then tipped the spoon up and tapped the powder into the cylinder. Sure, I spilled a bunch over because the spoon held so much more, but what the heck! Powder was cheap, back then... and I had plenty to spare...

Being a methodical kind of kid, I filled all six chambers with the powder, managing to spill as much around my feet, I suppose, as I was getting into the cylinder. I can laugh now, but when I bent over to get the bullets all the powder fell out of the cylinders onto my boots... so I had to fill them all over again! I managed to get all the chambers filled with powder and then stuck a bullet into the first cylinder... I had to really tap it in with my knife to get it started... then shoved it in as far as it would go with the rammer thing. I lost a little powder in the process, but eventually I had all six chambers loaded and ready to go. Then I put percussion caps over the things sticking out the ends of the cylinders... Oops! I forgot a couple of things!

Now, I'll admit my ignorance about a lot of things... but why I was supposed to smear Crisco on my balls is still a mystery to me. But I figured Old Man Shattuck knew what he was about, so I looked around to make sure I was alone, then dropped my pants to my knees, opened the can of Crisco and began to smear it over Lefty and Righty. Standing there in the hot summer sun, slowly massaging soft, silky grease into my scrotum... gee WHIZ! I guess the old man knew what he was talking about after all ! Welcome to the joys of shooting!

I had to force myself out of my reverie...

One last thing and then I'd be ready to shoot... I took my baseball cap off and stuffed it inside my shirt over my left nipple. Okay... I guessed I was ready (except, of course, that in my haste I'd forgotten to pull up my pants...)

Well sir, I crooked my left am out in front of my face, rested the trigger guard of the pistol in my right hand on it, drew a tight bead on an old Four Roses bottle, and squeezed the trigger. I remember a bright flash, a burning sensation on my arm and face, then something hit me square in the forehead and the lights went out.

It must have been quite sometime later when I awoke. I was laid out across the back seat of Sheriff Miller's car (I knew this from the plexi-glass partition and a previous ride when I'd been sixteen), the rider's side door was open and my feet and lower legs were hanging out. As I raised my head to look for the source of the voices I heard I felt like someone had hit me in the head with a sledgehammer. I could see two men in the dim, evening light, just outside the door and within my range of vision. At least, I thought they were two men... I could hear two speaking but they were sorta spinning around and they looked like six. From the voices I knew they were Sheriff Miller and my Dad... "... busy on another call so the volunteer fire department was the first out here," I heard the Sheriff explaining to my dad. "Mabel Krutchner called it in... said she saw smoke comin' from the dump and had heard an awful explosion over this way."

"Near as I can tell from what the firemen say, when they got here they found your boy lying over there. At first they thought he was dead. The dump was on fire all around him, his left arm and face were all black, his boots were scorched pretty badly, he had a HUGE knot on his forehead where somebody'd cold-cocked him... And... well, we think the boy's been... well, taken advantage of."

"What do you mean 'Taken advantage of?'" I heard my dad ask.

"Well, Al, it's like this," the Sheriff said. "The first men to get to your boy said he was unconscious; they found part of a gun by his body; his pants were down around his ankles, his crotch was smeared with Crisco and he was sportin' a big boner..."

Then I heard Mr. Shattuck's voice. "I always knew there was something wrong with that boy...This will probably keep him out of the army..."

And THAT'S why I don't shoot black powder...

[bubba.50]

I had a Ruger Old Army & absolutely loved it. but, with what one goes for today you could buy two Remy's with coin left over for powder & balls.

just a thought from one old codger.

[mmesa005]

Wow! Lots of great advice, a video (I am a visual learner so that is greatly appreciated), and Squeeze story to boot! I like having the option of being able to purchase a 45 long colt conversion kit for the Ruger but I do agree they are pricey! I have a Ruger 44 Magnum, previously owned a Mini-14, and appreciate how they are built so I have a bias already towards their products. I just didn't expect finding one locally would be such a chore? I have my Colt Defender selling locally which should net enough funds to make a purchase when one pop's up (hopefully soon!).

I have been using Ballistol since day one and after trying some others I always come back to it.

Again, everyone's advice is greatly appreciated!

[bubba.50]

you can get the 45 Colt conversion cylinders for Uberti & Pietta Remy's too and some models of the open-tops. just don't use them in a brass-frame gun.

[daleraby]

Corrosion resistance is a big advantage with any black powder gun. If you are religious about cleaning your guns, though either blued or stainless will work. The thing about revolvers is that try as you might, you will not get every little bit of powder residue and unburned powder off the outside surfaces and certainly will not get it all from the innards of the lock where it will invariably creep. This is where stainless really shines (pun intended) as with a stainless gun, you won't have to worry so much about rust getting at your lock parts. Blued guns on the other hand...

The story goes that Bill Ruger set out the design the very best percussion revolver ever made. With the Old Army, he might well have succeeded. Just remember; .457 round balls, not .451 or .454. and CERTAINLY not .440. Crisco works great, but it melts and if you have it in a holster, it will run down your leg and possibly attract wasps and other grease-eating stuff. Wonder Wads are wonderful (another pun) in hot weather. You can put them over the top of the balls or under them. Chain fires, though, are more likely to happen because of loose fitting caps. Don't use #11 caps on nipples designed for #10 caps. Yeah, you can pinch the larger caps down on the nipples and they'll sort of stay put, but there is always some gas leakage when the gun is fired, which will come out the back of the cylinder splitting the fired cap. If it gets to the loose-fitting cap next door, look out!

[dondiego]

I have tried to get chain fires by only capping every other nipple on a fully loaded chamber. No chain fires! The only time I could get a chain fire was when I had a dirty chamber and did not use a wad or grease over or under the ball. A study was done that proved chain fires are caused by a black powder trail being dragged by the ball creating a fuse of sorts. This was a repeatable occurrence.

[daleraby]

I have tried to get chain fires by only capping every other nipple on a fully loaded chamber. No chain fires! The only time I could get a chain fire was when I had a dirty chamber and did not use a wad or grease over or under the ball. A study was done that proved chain fires are caused by a black powder trail being dragged by the ball creating a fuse of sorts. This was a repeatable occurrence.

Y-y-you TRIED to get chain fires? WHY?! Have you considered that you might be unusually fortunate? I know that most percussion revolvers are designed to survive a chain fire, but it still can't be a pleasant experience for the shooter... with greased balls or not. Where was the study done, who did it, and where are the results recorded? This is a study I would like to read for myself. If the study is not available for viewing, then its just another anecdote, which is what I and most other posters put out here... so I got no problem with that. Even Christ used stories (parables or anecdotes). I've heard it both ways, but always used tight-fitting caps and greased my balls properly (sorry Squeeze, I couldn't resist), so have never experienced a chain fire. Did once shoot an overly hot handload in a Uberti Open Top and split the chamber. It was....unpleasant. Still haven't located a replacement 45 Colt cylinder.

[Buckshot Bill]

Kind of OT but what kind of grease do you use? I tried T/C maxi lube and after the first shot the grease came out of half the chambers from the shock. Seems like if it's going to blow out after the first shot or two it's kind of pointless? The wonder wads were a LOT less mess too......

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I had a blued , they are a great gun , probably the most accurate handgun I ever owned , however cap and ball just wasn't my game so I sold it to finance another gun.

I think a lubed felt wad under the ball is the best lube for the barrel , and least messy , the Crisco flies every where and is very soft when warm.

cleaning involved a a bucket of hot soapy water then a good long rinse in clear hot water under the faucet , then oiling every thing down again , it is easy to miss just one little spot , so the stainless will help with that but you still need to clean it the same way hot water and soap then re-oil

[daleraby]

Kind of OT but what kind of grease do you use? I tried T/C maxi lube and after the first shot the grease came out of half the chambers from the shock. Seems like if it's going to blow out after the first shot or two it's kind of pointless? The wonder wads were a LOT less mess too......

I have used T/C Maxi Lube and generic Crisco. Yes, both are messy and in hot weather they DO tend to get rearranged by recoil. There are all sorts of ideas out there as to what does and does not work. Some have their own formulas that use beezwax among other things in he mix. Bacon grease, butter, oleomargarin, lard, rendered coon. bear, or buffalo grease... all will work. Your mileage may vary. Wonder Wads, though more expensive, are the least messy option. Anything is better than nothing. Even when recoil spreads the lube all over the gun, it still leaves enough behind to do the job(s); reduce the chance of a chain-fire, reduce leading in the barrel, soften powder residue to make it easier to clean and avoid fouling to the point that the revolver freezes up.

[dromia]

When I feel the need to use grease on the chambers I use water pump grease, doesn't degrade with heat and stays in place when other chambers are being fired.

[snoopy]

You won't be disappointed with a roa, stainless or blue. I have a stainless and as has already been said,very accurate.

[Sharpsman]

I quit playing cowboy about age 8 when I discovered girls!

[rodwha]

You are missing out.

[Omnivore]

"I quit playing cowboy about age 8 when I discovered girls!"

So, you didn't discover cowgirls.

Anyway, as Hickock45 pointed out in one of his many videos, a percussion revolver, though we are tempted to think of it as a "Western" gun because of the movie industry, it was of course used in the East, in Europe, and anywhere else it could be purchased. There's nothing about the technology that's exclusive to cowboys. Colt and Remington were both based in the Eastern U.S., and Colt had a factory in England for a time. You might as well refer to the Colt Navy as a British gent's gun as a cowboy gun. Since percussion was the technology of the Civil War, and since most of the fighting in that war took place east of the Mississippi, they'd be more correctly referred to as "Eastern guns". That's where most of the perspective customers would have been, and still are to this day, if you look at population distribution.

Cowboys, such as used them at all, later picked them up as cheap surplus and such. A few years after the war, metal cartridge guns were taking over, and in fact they were being made in Europe during the war, so the state of the art during most of the post war, westward migration was the metal cartridge. Percussion would have been the cheaper alternative, and probably easier to feed on the frontier, using either surplus paper cartridges or loose components. That's how I see it anyhow.

[rodwha]

"I quit playing cowboy about age 8 when I discovered girls!"

So, you didn't discover cowgirls.

Anyway, as Hickock45 pointed out in one of his many videos, a percussion revolver, though we are tempted to think of it as a "Western" gun because of the movie industry, it was of course used in the East, in Europe, and anywhere else it could be purchased. There's nothing about the technology that's exclusive to cowboys. Colt and Remington were both based in the Eastern U.S., and Colt had a factory in England for a time. You might as well refer to the Colt Navy as a British gent's gun as a cowboy gun. Since percussion was the technology of the Civil War, and since most of the fighting in that war took place east of the Mississippi, they'd be more correctly referred to as "Eastern guns". That's where most of the perspective customers would have been, and still are to this day, if you look at population distribution.

Cowboys, such as used them at all, later picked them up as cheap surplus and such. A few years after the war, metal cartridge guns were taking over, and in fact they were being made in Europe during the war, so the state of the art during most of the post war, westward migration was the metal cartridge. Percussion would have been the cheaper alternative, and probably easier to feed on the frontier, using either surplus paper cartridges or loose components. That's how I see it anyhow.

Where's the like button when you want one?