Suppressors yay

[brettb75]

Has anyone here designed submitted and built their own suppressor. I've been researching the idea and think it could be alot of fun and very satisfying. Is it too much of a paperwork hassle? Sorry if this has been discussed alot and please refer me to posts. I'm using my phone and I'm not very good at navigating with it yet.

[HollowPoint]

I've dreamed of doing all of those things but have not done so yet. I have the machinery to build my own but I lack the patience and finances to proceed with any of my designs.

The cylindrical housings for the builds I've had in mind are the easy parts of such a build. The designs I've considered for my internals involved the use of Direct-Metal-Laser-Sintering. (DMLS) With this 3D printing technology I'd be able to create baffles with the type of geometry that would be nearly impossible to machine with conventional machining methods.

Also, these geometrically optimized suppressor baffles can be made of any or all the same metals used for making conventional suppressors; ie, Stainless steel, inconel and titanium. It's an expensive way to go but I'm more than just a little bit sure it would work just like I'm sure that for me, such suppressor builds will remain in the realm of my dreams indefinitely; unless I win the lottery or the passing of some long lost relative bequeaths a wad of cash to fuel those dreams.

HollowPoint

[Mica_Hiebert]

I have built 2 and have 2 more aplications waiting approval. It's not a huge hassle and much easier after your first time. The paperwork part is more of a waiting game than any thing. Your application has the 200 dollar tax per item. It is very satisfying to build your own. My 22 can is quieter than my uncles Comercial can but mine is way heavier! There's many options available from a few suppliers from carbon steel tubes and caps to stainless or titanium light weight but the light weight comes at about three times the price. If you have a lathe to make your own I am extremely jealous! I purchased the ready made tubes/caps (solvant trap) and a press jig to cone freeze plugs for my baffles.

[brettb75]

Yea I have a Lathe and most machinery needed. If you have any designs of k baffles or cone baffles then pm me and we can talk suppressors and designs and share ideaae

[Ehaver]

I am looking into it right now. One of the more important (to me) things that I have discovered is the use of a trust. By establishing a trust first, you can have the items passed down to whom you choose without reapplying for a tax stamp. You can also have your wife or kids or others on the trust so that they could use the item without you being present.

Other than that, the paper work seems easy. There are more than a few how to's for filling out the form 1.

I am interested in building an all titanium can that can be used on multiple systems. I am thinking a .500 bore with replaceable end caps that would have a smaller bore. .223, .308, .40 ext...

I want to be able to use the can not only for rifles but pistols too. I know it will be heavier than a dedicated can for pistols, but this way if I am not able to build more than one for a while I have options.

for Ti stock check out titanium joe .com for a pre fabed tube and caps check out SD tactical . com under the hardware section. also I think its online metals for other stock. also amazon has mag light tube spacer things that I have been eyeballing. pre made baffles without the hole.

Do yourself a favor, and google suppressor designs to look at different ideas. also silencer talk .com that have a silencer smiting section.

Your imagination and wallet are the limiting factors. My current idea should cost around $250 + the stamp.

[cheese1566]

I did one last year. Took longer to get the stamp than build it. I did a form 1 after researching ideas on silencer talk.com. Then submitted my form and fingerprints and photo. Send off for the correct fingerprint forms from the atf with the correct header. I did my own passport style photo and had it printed at Walgreens.com.

while waiting for the stamp, I researched more. It was only a 7 month wait. Only after getting the stamp, I ordered material from online metals. Spent about $75 in raw materials ( stainless 1" round stock, 7064 1" round alum, and 1" 6061 tube in 3 ft lengths. Bought some basic tooling from enco on sale (big 60* countersink and .270" reamer and 1/2-28 tap.) and ground some custom bits for the lathe. I have enough to make a few more if I choose to drop more on stamps....which I should do come to think of it.

I did a basic 22lr 6" k baffle style suppressor in aluminum. The mount is stainless as is the first baffle that incorporates a blast chamber. I think I figured actual $9 in materials. I then cerakote it in black to match the project Ruger MK2 I found and refurbed that was a complete mess. Barrel was shortened to 4" to allow regular 22lr to stay subsonic. Really quiet with standard velocity target shells. I lucked out and had Mack Bros suppressors in Sturgis, SD laser engrave my info on the tube. He was impressed and said I could probably shoot 22 mag or 17 rimfire through it.

[cheese1566]

166691166694

[Artful]

Nicely Done Cheese! :2_high5::awesome:

[Mica_Hiebert]

I would take pics of mine but I am not nice to it and I will need to press the baffles out if I am ever to clean them. might see what I can come up with

[6bg6ga]

You don't have to submit a design or your suppressor with the form 1 do you?

[Mica_Hiebert]

I got the end cap and one of my baffles out it has 11 baffles and about an inch blast chamber.

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r563/micahiebert/Mobile%20Uploads/20160421_023217-1-1_zpshd8q4zib.jpeg (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/micahiebert/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160421_023217-1-1_zpshd8q4zib.jpeg.html)

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r563/micahiebert/Mobile%20Uploads/20160421_023217-2_zps6rojo5cu.jpg (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/micahiebert/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160421_023217-2_zps6rojo5cu.jpg.html)

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/r563/micahiebert/Mobile%20Uploads/20160421_023054-1_zpskj2d54mo.jpeg (http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/micahiebert/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160421_023054-1_zpskj2d54mo.jpeg.html)

[Mica_Hiebert]

You don't have to submit a design or your suppressor with the form 1 do you?
no just length, caliber, model number if you choose one and serial number is mandatory but its what ever you want it to be.

[cheese1566]

I found 22lr is very dirty. I learned right away to shoot it some and take it apart soon after to get the bffles removed. Otherwise the soot and lead harden. I found a turn in my tumbler with sst pins so far is the easiest to clean the baffles. Big debate on the internet about that procedure though.

[B R Shooter]

Back in the day, a long time ago, we used to play around with 22lr handguns. We would take a soda can, open up the pop top hole, then cut in another on the opposite end. We just held the can with our hands while shooting through it. (I didn't say this was smart). But it was amazing how much noise was reduced with just this. It was a ping sound. With all these baffles inside a tube, should be cool and quiet. Never tried messing with one.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Mine sounds like a pellet gun with standard velocity and only hear the firing pin with cci quiets, this is out of my threaded bolt rifle my pistol makes a little more noise but not much.

[gzig5]

Question.. So if you make a can, it has to be caliber specific? You can't say make one for a 9mm and have a second set of baffles/parts to convert it to .40 cal on the one tax stamp?

[Omega]

It doesn't have to be caliber specific it can be multi-caliber, but...you can't have any replacement parts, and you can't do any repairs yourself.

[Artful]

Question.. So if you make a can, it has to be caliber specific? You can't say make one for a 9mm and have a second set of baffles/parts to convert it to .40 cal on the one tax stamp?

You can make a 40 cal can and shoot 9mm thru it or 22 LR for that matter - but you can't get one stamp and have two sets of internals - you can design it so that you can have multiple differently threaded caps so you can swap between say a 9/16 40 caliber host and an 1/2 9mm or 22LR host.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0cMuEpVOuQ

[Mica_Hiebert]

Question.. So if you make a can, it has to be caliber specific? You can't say make one for a 9mm and have a second set of baffles/parts to convert it to .40 cal on the one tax stamp?


It doesn't have to be caliber specific it can be multi-caliber, but...you can't have any replacement parts, and you can't do any repairs yourself.

This is not entirely correct. You do have to specify a calliber. The atf does not recognize "multi" as a caliber. there is no dictation on how much over bore you may have so you could build a 22 caliber suppressor with a half inch bore and still be legal. For all intents and purposes shooting 9mm through a 40 calliber or even a 45 caliber can works just fine typically if building a pistol can you will go with a 45 caliber to work on multiple hosts and for centerfire you go with a 30 cal for everything... typically you will build a dedicated 22 can but that's not saying you must it's just unwieldy to have a large centerfire can on a 22 and they kind of have a hollow sound

[Artful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWG-eCaOCmc

[Mica_Hiebert]

To reduce the liklyhood of a baffle strike typical rule of thumb is to go .040 over bore your caliber if your sure of your runout and .060 if your not sure so a 45 cal would have a .49- .51 through hole a .308 cal would be .348-.368 through hole.

[Clark]

Understanding the size of the can:

If you shoot a 22 CCI CB short through a 24" non semi 22 rifle, pointed at a soft target, it will sound like a BB gun.
This is because gas escapement from behind the bullet is less than one atmosphere above ambient, the threshold of supersonic gas escapement.
A rule of thumb is 1 gr of powder for every cubic inch of bore plus chamber volume.
The CCI CB short has 0.45 gr of powder.
The same amount of powder in a LR cartridge would make the same noise, but have lower velocity due to lower expansion ratio, peak pressure, and efficiency.

[Mica_Hiebert]

bumping this one back up.

[Artful]

So before Obama's BATFE boys mess up the Form 1 for Trust or Corp application - I'm putting in for another can. Gosh, they are addicting.

[Handloader109]

Tempted to make a 22 also. Got my first, a Octane 45 out of jail recently and it works well with 22 even though it is more a 9mm and 45. Btw, they may classify as a multi caliber for sales purpose, you (I) had to classify to the largest caliber that I would use, (45) on my form 4........ Per dealer who should know.

[Artful]

It's like you say - Form 1 efile had choices but not Multi - I'm going to make a 45 cal. And I'll probably make it shorter than the 12" I put on it. After I get approval and make it I'll have to send in addendum to let 'em know how long it turns out. I'll probably go the SDTA route with a premade solvent trap and then add baffles and modify as it's pretty cheap that way. And I'll have to decide which rifles to thread next - might do my
Marlin 45-70 and 44 Mag lever guns as the Rossi 357 turned out so fun.

[Jupiter7]

Got 4 I built. Waiting on 5 more approvals.

[UKShootist]

One of the few benefits of living in the UK is that sound moderators are relatively easy to obtain. If I have a sub 12 ft/lb rifle which doesn't require a firearms licence (yet!) then I can buy .22 sound moderators without a problem. Several very good ones on the market for £35-£60 (about $50-$90?). One of the oddities is that many of the same air rifle moderators work fine on .22 rimfires. I have about half a dozen laying around the house at present.

[Artful]

Yes, in the US to have a sound modulator on any air rifle (non-firearm) it has to be permanently attached to the barrel. Funny thing is I think with right ammo and firearm/suppressor it's actually quieter than the suppressed air rifles I have heard. You want really Quiet go bow and arrow.

[JimB..]

Yes, in the US to have a sound modulator on any air rifle (non-firearm) it has to be permanently attached to the barrel.

Just to nitpick, I do not believe that being permanently attached is the only way to legally suppress an air gun in the US. I think the general guidance is that it must not be able to be readily affixed to a firearm.

My suppressed air gun is louder than my suppressed .22. I attribute this to not cutting off the airflow from the tank quickly enough and to not having the benefit of cooling to reduce gas volume.

[leadman]

And if you want to go the trust route you should apply now. Sometime in July 2016 you will not be able to submit a Form 1 on a Trust.
I submitted 2 Form 1s recently and am now playing the waiting game. Last update on wait times I read is 5 months. you are ok to submit it on a trust up to then.
I am going to purchase a Solvent Trap Adapter from SDTA and convert this after I get my stamps.

[Artful]

Just to nitpick, I do not believe that being permanently attached is the only way to legally suppress an air gun in the US.
I think the general guidance is that it must not be able to be readily affixed to a firearm.

My suppressed air gun is louder than my suppressed .22. I attribute this to not cutting off the airflow from the tank quickly enough and to not having the benefit of cooling to reduce gas volume.

I wouldn't want to try that defense in court
- If it is removable it can be mated to a firearm.
The BATFE has prosecuted people in possession of European sound modulator's without any firearm (or air gun) being present. And the device's construction was probably only good for 1 shot then it would have come apart if used on a firearm. (Plastic and Felt construction)

[Artful]

I am going to purchase a Solvent Trap Adapter from SDTA and convert this after I get my stamps.

That's a good way to go - you going to use freeze plug's or cone's?
And going to use Aluminum, Steel or Titanium?

[JimB..]

- If it is removable it can be mated to a firearm.


I don't want to get into an argument about it, but by the same logic there is no such thing as "permanently attached" and any piece of tubing could be an unregistered suppressor, and any handful of washers could be the same. So, we each must decide if we will cower in fear of a government agency that has greatly overreached in rule making, but that has prosecuted almost no cases where there was not clear intent to violate the law.

I wouldn't make this decision for anyone else, but when each of you decide how you will comply with the law please consider that the overwhelming proportion of people that discuss NFA items on the Internet are hyper-conservative. This is perhaps a natural result of BATF being intentionally unpredictable at times combined with potentially high penalties, but I think it worth opposing what boils down to fear of our own government.

Artful, I don't know you and the above rant is not directed at you specifically, you just happened to have hit on a pet peeve of mine on a day that I'm laid up with a back injury.

[Black Beard]

Here in the UK you can have a silencer for low powered airguns without restrictions but can’t put it on a real firearm. I have several- I just bought a SAK last week for £40 ($60) and got a couple of parket hale silencers last month for £20 ($30) second hand J. Silencers for firearms are a lot more hassle as they need has to be justified to the police before purchase. I asked and they said not for target shooting. (It is swings and roundabouts – we get cheap silencers for airguns but no powder burners without jumping through hoops).

I’ve made a reflex design for my spring air rifle that is quieter than the mechanical internals of the gun (I can’t hear any muzzle blast). This was based on a cheap 240mm long silencer body.

If you have a pneumatic air rifle then the energy absorbing materials/baffles that are in many firearm silencers will warm up the air (that will have got very cold as it expands down the barrel). This will increase the air’s energy and so noise of the exiting air. This doesn’t happen with spring and gas ram airguns as the air starts out cold, is compressed and heated in the cylinder. It is still hot and under pressure as it exits the barrel.

I’m sad enough to have done a lot of air flow and sound modelling on silencers. It is pretty easy to get an estimate of noise levels if you know the exit pressure (quickload) and density (powder charge/barrel volume) of the muzzle blast. The results are pretty close to book values for firearms based on the limited pressure data I have.

[JimB..]

Here in the UK you can have a silencer for low powered airguns without restrictions but can’t put it on a real firearm. I have several- I just bought a SAK last week for £40 ($60) and got a couple of parket hale silencers last month for £20 ($30) second hand J. Silencers for firearms are a lot more hassle as they need has to be justified to the police before purchase. I asked and they said not for target shooting. (It is swings and roundabouts – we get cheap silencers for airguns but no powder burners without jumping through hoops).

I’ve made a reflex design for my spring air rifle that is quieter than the mechanical internals of the gun (I can’t hear any muzzle blast). This was based on a cheap 240mm long silencer body.

If you have a pneumatic air rifle then the energy absorbing materials/baffles that are in many firearm silencers will warm up the air (that will have got very cold as it expands down the barrel). This will increase the air’s energy and so noise of the exiting air. This doesn’t happen with spring and gas ram airguns as the air starts out cold, is compressed and heated in the cylinder. It is still hot and under pressure as it exits the barrel.

I’m sad enough to have done a lot of air flow and sound modelling on silencers. It is pretty easy to get an estimate of noise levels if you know the exit pressure (quickload) and density (powder charge/barrel volume) of the muzzle blast. The results are pretty close to book values for firearms based on the limited pressure data I have.

I would enjoy seeing your design.

I agree that for a pneumatic air rifle the gas is cold coming down the barrel, and is heated somewhat by the barrel and any suppressor material. As far as I know this is dealt with by planning for the larger volume of gas created, unfortunately requiring a larger can. iIs there another approach? I have a suppressed airforce talon and am no yet happy with the level of suppression, so looking for ideas.

[cs86]

Go to silencertalk.com. There is a wealth of information there and a lot of knowledgeable people.

[Artful]

JimB.., sorry to hear about your back - I'm also an ache and pain away from being a grouch - damn arthritis etc. - All the failed fun times of your youth come back to haunt you. Any way, here's a link or two for you to ponder as you wait for the pain med's to kick in.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/2005-4-ported-device-attached-barrel-paintball-gun/download
http://www.beemans.net/silencers_on_airguns.htm
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/07/guiltyjury-finds-airgun-silencer-illegal/
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=479815
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/story/1300054.html
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135054
http://www.airgunone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-7833.html

Feel better soon - and advice Doc gave about my back is strengthen my abdominal's and
I should loose weight - the toughest medicine to swallow.

[JimB..]

JimB.., sorry to hear about your back - I'm also an ache and pain away from being a grouch - damn arthritis etc. - All the failed fun times of your youth come back to haunt you. Any way, here's a link or two for you to ponder as you wait for the pain med's to kick in.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/2005-4-ported-device-attached-barrel-paintball-gun/download
http://www.beemans.net/silencers_on_airguns.htm
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/07/guiltyjury-finds-airgun-silencer-illegal/
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=479815
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/crime_safety/story/1300054.html
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135054
http://www.airgunone.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-7833.html

Feel better soon - and advice Doc gave about my back is strengthen my abdominal's and
I should loose weight - the toughest medicine to swallow.

Artful, thanks for understanding, and for the suggested reading, sorry that you met me at a bad time.
Jim

[leadman]

Artful, I am thinking the suppressor for my 7 RM is going to be titanium, and the other steel, both with freeze plugs.
On the SDTA forum a member just got his stamp he applied for at the end of January. Looks like it is going to be a long wait so I'll purchase the solvent traps and get the guns I want to use these on threaded and use them as solvent and patch traps.
I have 7 guns already threaded with muzzle brakes on them already with 4 different threads. I may purchase extra end caps versus adapters, or get some with larger threads rethreaded to a smaller size.

[Artful]

Yep, threading can be tough part - I put up a link on your other thread about it but it's best when the person threading has the actual item that's to mate up in hand to test fit.

[Jupiter7]

Artful, I am thinking the suppressor for my 7 RM is going to be titanium, and the other steel, both with freeze plugs.
On the SDTA forum a member just got his stamp he applied for at the end of January. Looks like it is going to be a long wait so I'll purchase the solvent traps and get the guns I want to use these on threaded and use them as solvent and patch traps.
I have 7 guns already threaded with muzzle brakes on them already with 4 different threads. I may purchase extra end caps versus adapters, or get some with larger threads rethreaded to a smaller size.

"Extra endcaps" is a no-go for a Form1 build. No extra parts allowed. Just build it for the largest caliber to be shot, shoot sub calibers as needed.