Cavity fill-up options for Lyman 525 slugs.

[Y-man]

Hiya guys!
For some time now, I have been able to achieve reasonably levels of accuracy with my Lyman 525 slugs: simple load replacement on Target [Birdshot] loads – getting as good as 4 inches out to 50 yards.

I’m happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X404Ut2_YaM

I have had some difficulty finding right medium to fill-up the cavity to avoid wad ingress. Candle wax drips untidily all over the place when melting and pouring in cavity, and seems to lubricate the slug: so the wad does not grip the slug well enough when rotating in the rifling.

Hot Glue seems a bit better: but sometimes does not grip inside the cavity: you end up with these cavity-shaped plugs of glue even BEFORE loading the shells.
And Hot Glue needs a hot glue gun, electricity, time and all… Too long and boring…

So I came up with an idea to use sand. Yes, you all heard me right – SAND!

I pour a little FINE, dry sand in the cavity: up to half-full. Then drip some super-glue carefully all round to soak the sand. Then while that is hardening: I pour the remaining sand to fill up the cavity: then drip more super glue over it...

Finally: with the wet glue still soaking in, and drying: I sprinkle a little fine sand on top: it produces flat, neat cavity-filling.

Advantages:
· Fast.
· Neat
· The plug is frangible.
· After loading: all is held inside shot-cup: sand is not going to pour through your barrel * and get in your gun’s workings.
· The rough sandy surface at the bottom of slug grips the wad and helps with the right friction to impart spin.
* This sand and glue only adds 1 [ONE] gram of additional weight [0.035274 ounce] - which is negligible.

Also: I have been using some hard plastic disks INSIDE the Birdshot wads to raise my slugs to right height, which also helps the slugs seat ABOVE the ribs inside at the bottom of the shut-cup. They are from re-purposed Soda Bottle tops – punched out with 16mm punch. "Waste not... Want not..."

The last disk before the Slug in second pic below [Neon green] is from plastic disposable plates: the slug sits on top of this, it has a kid of semi-collapsible shock-absorbing quality. [Like using egg-packing to protect something, it protects the slug even more.]

I have also gone back to using the plastic over-shot frangible disk to roll-crimp: so I should have better wad petal behaviour.

All will tell as soon as I test in two weeks, hopefully.

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[longbow]

Y-man:

Good to see you are back at it (or still at it)!

While I cringe at the thought of sand, you are right in that you have encapsulated it so it should not go anywhere.

Something else similar you might try is clay. Some of the old Minies and I believe cartridge loaded hollow base bullets used clay plugs in the hollow base.

Longbow

[wmitty]

Y-man:

Another excellent idea! Thanks for posting it!

[jmort]

4" at 50 yards is an excellent result. We take so much for granted here. If you could just get the right "hard card" you would not have to worry about the hollow base. Regardless, I am impressed as usual with your ingenuity.

[Goose18557]

I second longbow...modeling clay is my go to

[Y-man]

Play-Doh would do? No access to any other "modelling clay" here: just some counterfeit Chinese made "Plaay-Dohh" that I do not even let my kids play with...
Maybe that would work?

[mac60]

Good job Y man. Your buddies definitely got a kick out of it.

[longbow]

I was thinking natural clay which is generally available worldwide. Clay like wax should drop out of the cavity after the slug leaves the bore. And clay is so fine that it is not likely to damage the bore is it got free.

I had thought of modeling clay but it might be like hot melt glue and stay in the cavity sometimes and not others. A quick wipe with a cleaning solvent should fix bonding of hot melt glue or modeling clay or whatever though. However if the hot melt glue gun and/or electricity are issues then a more basic approach is better in your situation.

Nothing wrong with your sand and super glue idea as is though if it is more convenient and components are readily available. In fact you could use something like cornmeal and masking tape over the base to hold the cornmeal in place. I have done this with Lyman Foster slugs to keep filler in place. That worked well though it did not solve the much undersize Foster slug issue.

Keep up the good work!

Longbow

[Hogtamer]

Nice job Yman! That field you're in looks like rows of peanuts inverted to dry before thrashing?

[country gent]

Yoy might try grex filler thats used for shot buffering its a ground plastic filler. would be light and not as abrasive as sand is.

[ascast]

Sounds interesting. I wonder- have you tried making a mold for the wax sabot? I thought someone was making / offering them. I think you could make one easy enough. You'd want to think about making sure the two halves separated properly.

[Y-man]

Longbow: I just got some Play Doh today. I will try that.
Hogtamer: many thanks! You are RIGHT! Wow... Peanuts and at the far end - Beans. Just a small part of my farm.
Country Gent, Sir: I will try grinding up some soda bottles in an Industrial Blender that I have: I'm sure I'll get some good ground plastic filler: and still use the Super glue. [And plastic grit should be LIGHTER than Sand, I'm sure.]

Thanks!

[Y-man]

Hiya all...
Many thanks for the kind words and advice...


I did some more thinking, and then some research and experimenting.


What is it that makes Sand so good at holding so well and being a good medium to full-up the cavity?
[Even though there is the fear of abrasion from loose grains in the barrel.]


Granularity.


What else has granularity and the added advantage of being even more frangible than plastic? And has a much lower coefficient to abrade a shotgun bore?


SALT!


And


SUGAR!


I tested the same thing in a plastic cavity: poured in some Salt, then dripped Super-Glue in on top, then sprinkled Salt to fill-up, and dripped more Super-Glue...


Even BETTER than Sand! Dried to a solid, firm, extremely light mass...


And Sugar did the same too...


So with this: I can pre-flavour my game when I go hunting!


Great!

[country gent]

On those long shots salt will preserve the meat until you can get there. Salt was once popular for buffering shot charges also. another to try would be flour only water would be needed to make it bind together Fill cavity with flour and a few drops of water from a syringe.

[victorfox]

Y-Man you're amazing dude! I don't know if super glue is costly where you live but you should try regular white glue with your mixes. It sure takes a little while to dry but why not? Here there's also a plaster/putty we use in walls to correct some imperfections before painting that dries to gypsum consistence but it's a bit more flexible (pva based).Also as others suggested try a harder card behind the slug. I had great success in my own experiments using very thick cardboard from duct tape and scotch tape (those wider ones used to close boxes and such) as my over powder wads. Some are about .25" thick. I loaded a batch dipped in hot paraffin which made them even harder (when dry used over powder they turned into confetti)...Good to hear news from you Y-man. I'm great fan of yours since TFB... my compliments to you.

[Y-man]

Many thanks VictorFox! And superglue is CHEAP here!


So, I perfected the Salt/ Sugar cavity fill-up idea. It is great!


I think Salt is better than Sugar though.


I also finally got myself a Sizing Die for the skirts of my Lyman slugs: fabricated out of stainless steel: it gives me uniform 16.5mm [From 16.8 cast]for all my skirts. [LOL! My SLUG skirts...Not all of us want to do a "Jenner"!]


This way: I do not have bulging wads/ shells anymore and reduced fears of over-pressure.

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Many thanks all for all the advice!

[victorfox]

Great work Y-man! I plan to make a die like this to swage round balls into stackable small slugs (credits goes to Uncle Dino). Man you have a nice bunch of tools now. I remember and laugh everytime of that story of you asking for toothpaste tubes caps around....LOLBest regards

[Y-man]

LOL! Yes! I still have a little kid from one of the nearby "favelas" who still brings me [Cleaned] Toothpaste caps up till today! I have never used them, but I always pay him, and dispose of the caps in the office recycler!
That kid has gone halfway through high school so far from what I have been paying him!
Wow: I marvel at what I had, and what I knew/ did not know when i started this whole shotgun and casting thing...

Makes me appreciate you guys more...

[beagle]

An idea. Occasionally, I mess with paper mache or at least what I call paper mache. Soak a newspaper in water. Mash it up with your hands until it is mush. Pack base cavity full and let sit in a sunny place or you car in the sun for several days. It will set hard./beagle

[runfiverun]

didn't we add elmers [white] glue to the paper mache?
I know they used to make a paste for wall paper from flour too.
but yeah some pulped up paper and some paste glue would make a nice plug.
the salt is encapsulated in the wad and such so I see no problem with it.

oh and salt stacks up better than sugar because it is square in shape.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Great thread, I love the ingenuity!

[Muskrat Mike]

Has anyone tried silicone caulking or similar from a caulking gun and smoothed off with a putty knife?

[longbow]

I have not but have read that it works just fine.

I generally use hot melt glue. Now that I think of it I am not sure just why. Silicone caulking might just be a better animal.

When filling a hollow base maybe not a big issue but I have been making "Brenneke" clones and the cast on skirt is a problem for the home tinkerer that doesn't have injection moulding equipment. I have been using "forms" to cast hot melt glue onto the bases of slugs... usually either hollow based slugs with extended "skirt' or flat base slugs with a screw run in to anchor the hot melt glue "skirt".

It works but the hot melt glue is a bit hard to control and sometimes gets air bubbles in the fill.

On the other hand I have machined polyethylene to form attached "skirts" and had little better success but lots more work. So take that as you will.

Shotgun slug shooting (at least from smoothbores) seems to be a bit of a black art with lots of variables... at least beyond 50 yards or so.

I know that I am still learning.

Longbow

[wmitty]

I'll try some sheetrock mud in the base of the Lyman 525's next time I load some up. It's cheap and lots faster than hot glue. If it seems to work, I'll post it. May shrink and crack when it dries...

[appleseedgunsmith]

Been working lately again with 20 ga highwall and 700 + grain projectiles inside of 20 gauge shot cups as well as full bore .622 himmelwright wadcutters. Latest projectile news 530 brain Pritchett bullet for the Confederate Lee-Enfield. 50-yard groups with sabot will run about 3 to 4 in and the full bore projectile in an all brass RMC case will group about 3 in at 100 yards

[appleseedgunsmith]

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[appleseedgunsmith]

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[appleseedgunsmith]

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