Round ball in .32 S&W?

[I'll Make Mine]

I've just gotten a ca. 1891 H&R top break revolver (2nd model, 1st variation, as near as I can tell from old posts on collector forums), chambered for the mighty .32 S&W cartridge (no, not the long, not even the .32 H&R Long, which was shorter than the .32 S&W Long; this one uses the short round, as far as I can tell). Not being a collector, I intend to shoot this little gun. It's mechanically sound, cylinder alignment seems good, and aside from some pitting near the forcing cone, the bore is quite nice.

Now, I'm well aware that this early, the H&R revolvers were black powder only (I don't think even S&W was making guns proofed for smokeless in 1892, the last year this H&R version was produced); I plan to pull down the 100 rounds of Magtech ammo I bought for it and reload them with substitute powder, either Pyrodex (which I've already got on hand) or APP (preferred because it's compatible with lubes I might find on boolits I buy, and is reputed to be easier on the cleaning side and less corrosive). No, as far as I'm aware, there's no local source near Winston-Salem for actual black powder, and hazmat shipping makes the cost prohibitive if you're only likely to shoot a pound every two or three years.

My research tells me the canonical BP load for this round was 5 gr. powder with a 75 gr. round nose bullet, but I'd like to make my first loads for this gun with round balls -- I have some on hand, and don't have any other .32 bullets light enough for this (I have a few cast from the Lee 90 gr. tumble lube SWC mold, but they won't hold enough lube to shoot with sulfur-base powders). The .310 balls I have are about 44 grains, and I plan to insert a card wad and lube cookie beneath each ball. I should then be able to reload the cases without dies; they won't need resizing, just deprime and reprime, drop powder, wad, and lube cookie, and push the ball in, then give a light stab crimp in two or three places to hold the ball in place.

I'm considering reducing the load a bit to go easy on this appr. 125 year old gun; since I can push the ball down inside the case, I could probably use as little as 3 gr. equivalent without messing with fillers, though it'd be a little tricky to set my measure for that little (I'd probably make up a scoop; a .22 LR case might be big enough).

Given there are 1400 loads in a pound of powder, even at 5 gr. per load, this promises to be cheap to shoot, but I've got a couple questions.

I've had a suggestion that I might be able to paper patch the balls to make them a tighter fit in the bore (I haven't slugged yet, but I presume it's probably near the .312 that's nominal for .32 revolvers). Yet, I've heard many examples of people using round balls that we'd consider significantly undersize for a boolit -- the Finns, for instance, have been shooting cat sneeze loads with bore sized round balls for almost a century. Does anyone have any experience with either paper patching in a revolver, or shooting round balls big enough to engage rifling, but too small to fill the grooves?

Second question, has anyone tried modifying a round ball mold to make "ball-ets"? For a .310 ball mold, a 5/16" twist drill should give a base about .313 (in the mold, bullet shrinkage might require that to be reamed a little), and with care, it might be possible to leave a single lube or crimp groove by stopping the drill before it reaches the equator of the ball. This should produce a ball-et in the range of 55-60 gr., I think.

[Outpost75]

The unmodified .313 round ball works fine in the .32 S&W as-is.

But if you are careful using the 5/16" drill to make a Ball-ette would be just dandy.

I have loaded 1.7 grains of Bullseye in an H&R 732, but that is a later solid-frame gun, and you are safer using black powder or a substitute in your top-break.

[Nueces]

One of the old time gun writers, maybe George Nonte, in Shooting Times, wrote in the early 70s about using size O buckshot (0.320") in the little 32s. I vaguely recall that he pushed the shot through the revolver chambers to pre-size them and finger wiped lube over the seated bullet, as you would do with a cap and ball revolver. But he may have just pushed a ball into a belled case neck.

I still have a small bag of O shot, bought just to try that out, but I never did it.

[I'll Make Mine]

The unmodified .313 round ball works fine in the .32 S&W as-is.

But if you are careful using the 5/16" drill to make a Ball-ette would be just dandy.

I have loaded 1.7 grains of Bullseye in an H&R 732, but that is a later solid-frame gun, and you are safer using black powder or a substitute in your top-break.

The top breaks made after 1904 were proofed for factory .32 S&W (and .32 S&W Long, where chambers accept it) smokeless loads, and are safe with those loads. From my reading, that applies only to S&W, H&R, and Iver Johnson top-breaks (after appropriate dates when smokeless proofing was added to production); the other top break revolvers are black powder only (the ones that haven't been destroyed by smokeless rounds in the interim).

I haven't seen a .313 ball mold; that'd be perfect -- who makes that one?

[I'll Make Mine]

One of the old time gun writers, maybe George Nonte, in Shooting Times, wrote in the early 70s about using size O buckshot (0.320") in the little 32s. I vaguely recall that he pushed the shot through the revolver chambers to pre-size them and finger wiped lube over the seated bullet, as you would do with a cap and ball revolver. But he may have just pushed a ball into a belled case neck.

I still have a small bag of O shot, bought just to try that out, but I never did it.

I have or used to have that article in a bound collection -- it was actually .38 Special, using 000 buck, and he loaded the way I plan to -- no sizing, just enough bell on the case mouth to seat the ball without shaving, and a stab crimp 2-3 places to hold the ball in place. That's the exact source of my plan. :D

I'd been looking at 00 shot, which is .330; I thought 0 was too small, but let me check... Yep, 0 buck is .320, and 1 1/2 buck is .310 -- and both are a great deal cheaper than swaged balls sold for muzzle loaders. I was actually considering .315 ball, but I can make a push-through sizing die easily enough. The 3% antimony won't make the balls too hard, will it?

[Nueces]

IMM, I remember your 38 article, too, but there was also one on the 32s, specifically recommending 0 size shot. Maybe it was Skeeter.

Man, I miss the old experimenter's gun rags with Nonte, Skeeter Skelton, Dan Cotterman, John Wootters. Real old time gun men.

[Outpost75]

The top breaks made after 1904 were proofed for factory .32 S&W (and .32 S

I haven't seen a .313 ball mold; that'd be perfect -- who makes that one?

Lee, standard item.

[BNE]

I have a Lee 00 buck mold. It drops around .311 diameter balls. I have a .32 pistol I have considered doing similar with.

If you want, I could powder coat some and see how big they get. PM me if interested.

[I'll Make Mine]

Thanks for the suggestion, BNE, but given I want to shoot soft lead in the old BP revolver and don't have a powder coat setup anyway, I think I'd prefer to stick with muzzle loading balls or buckshot. Given Lee sells a .313 ball mold, which I can probably adjust between .311 and .315 by controlling how hot the mold and lead are, I'll probably just get one of those (and likely convert one or both cavities to drop ball-ets).

[Wayne Smith]

I'm shooting the same cartridge, in an internal hammer H&R top break, with buckshot sized in a 310 32 sizer and loaded over 1 and 1.2 gr Bullseye. Took it to the range for the first time and told the guys there what I was shooting. They came down to make sure the ball went through the target backing! It did, no problem. I wouldn't want to be hit by one of them.

[johnson1942]

i shoot 454 round balls in my 45 long colt cowboy handgun and .375 round balls resized to .358 in my two cowboy 38 specials. they shoot holes in holes with great penetration and i will shoot nothing else in them. you will find that roundballs most likely will be more accurate that a cast heavier bullet. it will penetrate more also. have fun and go for it.

[I'll Make Mine]

I got the tools today to cut my card wads and remove the factory crimp from the cases (they're pretty ugly after pulling the bullets), so I should be able to get a few cases loaded this weekend (after a trip to Gander Mountain or Dick's to buy a bottle of APP). I've got lube made from toilet ring wax and paraffin, and wouldn't want to use it with Pyrodex, but APP is said to work okay with conventional petroleum based lubes.

[Captain O]

Wayne Smith is right. George Nonte wrote about the 1 grain of Bullseye. George used Crisco to prevent the possible problems of inginting the propellant in all the chambers. He was using these as "gallery" (indoor) loads, into stacked magazines for a backstop.

Have fun!

[leadman]

I have a slightly newer H&R top break than yours in 32 S&W. The bore on mine is .314" and bright and shiny. I shoot the 93gr Lee RN with a light charge of 700X.
I will be interested to see how the round ball does.

[I'll Make Mine]

Leadman, I presume by "slightly newer" you mean post-1904, with the chambering stamped on the left side of the barrel. Revolvers old enough not to have that stamping were only designed and proofed for black powder cartridges, though the very last production (early to mid-1904) prior to the stamping have all the physical changes to frame and other parts that were done in preparation for the change to smokeless.

Mine, made in 1890-1892 (if I've correctly identified the model and variation) is strictly black powder only -- though I could probably get away with firing the 100 rounds I bought for it while it was in transit, I'd prefer to keep it on the diet it was built for. My reading suggests that, even with factory loads giving a little lower velocity for the same bullet weight than the original 5 gr. black, the pressure curve of powders used for such light loads (usually similar to Bullseye) is enough different to lead to problems with long term use. Round ball is quite a bit lighter, and a slightly reduced powder charge will also help keep things gentle.