Collecting military bolt actions, this is what I have. What else should I add

[AbitNutz]

This is just a general list of what I have and as I trip through life I'm wondering what I should add. None I have are particularly rare or valuable. Just a collection of rifles that I can shoot and look at. I know that many models go to almost infinite variety. I'm sorta interested in more than minor differences....hey, it's a hobby, not a lifestyle.

I've thought about the Swiss K-31 or even a Canadian Ross but I think I should limit my efforts to turn bolt rifles. While I really love those rifles, it's a slippery slope to go way off the rails.

1. Mauser K98
2. Yugoslavian M48
3. Arisaka Type 66
4. Siamese Mauser
5. Lee-Enfield No.5 Mk1 Jungle carbine
6. 1903 Springfield
7. P17 Enfield Eeddystone
8. P14 Enfield Winchester
9. Swedish M/96 Carl Gustafs
10. Mosin 91/30
11. Mannlicher-Shoenaeur 1903/14
12. Madsen M47
13. Krag-Jorgensen
14. French MAS 36

I'm probably crazy missing Mannlicher rifles. The Carcano, etc.

[Adam Helmer]

Abit,

You have the field generally covered. I use a theme of the World Wars; I have collected WWI arms and then focused on WWII arms. After that I gathered some Korean War arms that came my way. Mannlicher arms are ok and a Carcano or Austrian Steyr will cover that base. The problem with Mannlichers is finding the necessary clips and some calibers such as 6.5X53R Rumania is very hard to find.

I would pick up a M1910 Ross and a Swiss M1911 or M31 7.5X55MM to round out a working battery of historically significant arms. Along the way I have collected the proper slings, cleaning kits, bayonets and a few items of kit the soldiers carried afield.

You still have nice collection, as is.

Adam

[bedbugbilly]

Looks like you have a nice assortment! Rifles are like dogs . . . there is always room for one more. LOL

I had a nice assortment that I had collected over 50 years. A few years ago, after the wife retired I decided it was time to downsize and sold off my collection. Now, I wish I had a couple of them back! :-) Enjoy them and have fun! The time will come along soon enough when they'll go to the next generation . . . and after all, we may "own" them but we really are only the "caretakers" of them. You have a nice array of some very nice historical long guns!

[Scharfschuetze]

After covering all the bases, think about specializing in a specific model or specific country's weaponry. The permutations can drive a collector crazy, but it is fun.

[Calamity Jake]

Everybody needs an 03A3

[cuzinbruce]

Actually you have a pretty good assortment. Things to consider: .22 trainers? Snipers?
Have fun doing it!

[AbitNutz]

Oh snipers! I have both drooled over and avoided them like the plague due to the price. If I was only collecting sniper rifles I would most likely have exactly one rifle in my safe, my budget blown.

[Dimner]

Speaking of sniper rifles..... the whole time I was growing up my dad had this in the basement. We were not a gun family. Nobody shot anything nobody hunted.

Well dad was a Lt col in the field artillery. I suspect he had enough fun shooting the 8" inch self propelled howitzer that he didn't feel the need to shoot his springfield 30-06.

The "springfield 30-06" is what we called it growing up. So in my late thirties when I got into shooting and hunting, I called him up and said

"mind if I take that old springfield 30-06 and start using it?"

Dad says

"You mean the WWII sniper rifle? Sure, stop by and it's yours."

I get it home and do some research and find out its a 1903A4. A history buffs holy grail gun. You don't want to know how many times my brother dry fired this at me when we were kids. Took it to the range after a good cleaning and lube, she shoots 1.5" groups at 100 yard with factory ammo. With reloading I can tighten that up quite a bit.

166325

166326

(Note, not the original scope, but it is the original Redfield scope mount)

[jimb16]

M44 Mosin, and Argentine Mauser plus a Spanish Destroyer... Dimner, nice 03a4.

[mac60]

Swiss K31

[AbitNutz]

Aren't dad's great just great like that?


Speaking of sniper rifles..... the whole time I was growing up my dad had this in the basement. We were not a gun family. Nobody shot anything nobody hunted.

Well dad was a Lt col in the field artillery. I suspect he had enough fun shooting the 8" inch self propelled howitzer that he didn't feel the need to shoot his springfield 30-06.

The "springfield 30-06" is what we called it growing up. So in my late thirties when I got into shooting and hunting, I called him up and said

"mind if I take that old springfield 30-06 and start using it?"

Dad says

"You mean the WWII sniper rifle? Sure, stop by and it's yours."

I get it home and do some research and find out its a 1903A4. A history buffs holy grail gun. You don't want to know how many times my brother dry fired this at me when we were kids. Took it to the range after a good cleaning and lube, she shoots 1.5" groups at 100 yard with factory ammo. With reloading I can tighten that up quite a bit.

166325

166326

(Note, not the original scope, but it is the original Redfield scope mount)

[AbitNutz]

I have been trying to pick up some of the various rifle accessories as I come across them. Hunting down a good bayonet for some of these rifles can be surprisingly expensive. It seems that the rifles are cheap but a bayonet can be more than the rifle. It would be nice to have all what I have "fully dressed".

You also know of what you speak regarding the clips. The Mannlichers that have the drop though clips are very cool. I always liked the 1903 Greek M-S because of the rotary magazine but the Mannlichers that use an en bloc fall away clip are probably the height of bolt action feeding systems.


Abit,

You have the field generally covered. I use a theme of the World Wars; I have collected WWI arms and then focused on WWII arms. After that I gathered some Korean War arms that came my way. Mannlicher arms are ok and a Carcano or Austrian Steyr will cover that base. The problem with Mannlichers is finding the necessary clips and some calibers such as 6.5X53R Rumania is very hard to find.

I would pick up a M1910 Ross and a Swiss M1911 or M31 7.5X55MM to round out a working battery of historically significant arms. Along the way I have collected the proper slings, cleaning kits, bayonets and a few items of kit the soldiers carried afield.

You still have nice collection, as is.

Adam

[Scharfschuetze]

Everybody needs an 03A3

I agree! Anything made at Springfield Armory is spot on for a collector.

[leebuilder]

No4mk1
Or no4mk1☆
And No1mk3
Or a No1mk3☆
More Mosins and a finned mosin
Swedish mausers
Any milsurp really
Ross would be an benchmark for any collection
I like 22 trainers they are commanding a premium these days
Be well

[castalott]

I started a collection similar to yours when younger. I had a 1943 Walther p38 and a 1943 45 auto. I had a chance to buy a 1943 Nambu pistol. But I didn't have the money and life got in the way of this collection. 1943 was a year when most of the players were kinda equal. I wanted to collect all the pistols from all the sides from that year.

That would have been a collection that one could appreciate.....

[Bigslug]

I notice a lacking of No 1. MKIII and No. 4 .303's. If your focus is smokeless powered turnbolt battle rifles, that's a pretty severe omission.

Spanish Mauser 1893 - the rifle that made Teddy Roosevelt say "HOLY ****! We need one of those!" You probably need an 1884 trapdoor to sit opposite it.

[Scharfschuetze]

I notice a lacking of No 1. MKIII and No. 4 .303's. If your focus is smokeless powered turnbolt battle rifles, that's a pretty severe omission.

Yes, you probably need to look into some Lee Enfields.

[Scharfschuetze]

You probably need an 1884 trapdoor to sit opposite it.

Yes, another good idea. Lots of fun these... even if they aren't bolt guns.

[Frank46]

Look at some Finnish moisin nagant rifles. Models 27, 28-30 and model 39 but be aware that the later models have tighter bore dimensions which works to your advantage. My 27 slugs out at .3115, the 28-30 can be as tight as .310 and the 39 can be .308 to .310. Persian 98/29 mauser made in Czechkoslavkia in the 30's are great shooters and usually have pristine bores, add a Swiss K31 to your stable as it is almost made for cast bullets brass is available from Grafs. And an old favorite of mine is the 1891 Argentine mauser look for barrel condition as some of them are horrible. Frank

[Silfield]

Very nice and enviable collection you have there sir.
How about a Steyr M1886 Kropatschek or a 71/84 Mauser?

[bob208]

ways to go. mausers go after the different country crests. brit. enfields the different manufactures.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Reading the thread over I see where you got some great suggestions and great photos. So I'll make a slightly different suggestion--buy some general rifle reference books like "Small Arms of the World", WHB Smith; "Collecting Classic Bolt Action Military Rifles", P. Scarlata; "Testing The War Weapons", T. Mullin.......many more. You'll get a lot of pleasure from reading about them and their different specs. and histories, and be able to plan your collection based on what interests you.

A hint about the Smith book--try to find an older used copy printed in the late 1950s or 1960s as there have been several subsequent printings and they tended to modernize the book, concentrating more on current weapons and giving less coverage and photos of the older stuff. More and more black plastic and aluminum, and less and less walnut and blue steel.

[perotter]

Very nice and enviable collection you have there sir.
How about a Steyr M1886 Kropatschek or a 71/84 Mauser?

Plus some of the other bolt action black powder rifles, like the Vetterli, Beumont, Berdan, etc.

[Silfield]

Plus some of the other bolt action black powder rifles, like the Vetterli, Beumont, Berdan, etc.
Agreed! I have my eye on a nice Vetterli Stutzer for when my pocket is a bit deeper. I converted one to c/f last year for a friend and it is fun to shoot.

[kawasakifreak77]

K31! K31!!

Man I wish I would have heard about the Swiss rifles a decade ago so I could have gotten a reasonable ammo stash for them. But still with PPU soft points its very accurate & of course, lightning fast. My friends say I'm cheating when I get out my Swiss rifle & I'm not even that great of shot... that rifle just SHOOTS! I have all the neat stuff for it also. The 'sawback' bayonet, WWII steel case 'stalkhern' AP ammo, tracers, sealed 'emergency' tins of GP11 ball on chargers AND a very, VERY rare stripper clip. I won't admit what I paid for it but I have never saw another one, for any price.

I have a spare K31 now for a scout / suppressed project & hope to add a 96/11 to the bunch before long.

If I could only have one rifle, it'd be a K31.

But since I can have pretty much whatever, I have...

1903 Springfield, scoped. Inhereted from my dad. Shot my first deer with it almost 20 years ago now. She is retired from the rigors of hunting & now lives the easy life of a cast boolit shooter.

1896 Swedish Mauser, cut to pieces. Dad got this after the Springfield when I was a boy & sportered it sadly. They were cheap(er) then & M41 ammo was everywhere. If we knew then what we know now... I am trying to bring it back, kinda. Its wearing a new Shilen barrel, a Timney trigger & a decent walnut stock. I have pre WWII Lyman sights to put on it someday if I can find a competant 'smith to finish the project. Its been in the closet corner far, far too long. Its my dream rifle, the 6.5 is just so sweet.

91/30 mosin. This is a jack handle that goes bang... I bought a hex a couple years back solely because my friend told me I JUUUUST HAD to have one. I hated it, its was the most crudely manufactured firearm I ever had in my collection. It went down the road shortly there after.

But then... another buddy of mine found a pile of 54R tracers for basically nothing. It soon became tradition at our campouts to wing a few tracers into the night sky with his mosin. Fun! :D but its sooo freaking noisy... well I had just gotten my first silencer also... So one night I'm like dude! Seriously we should thread your mosin for my can so the ladies won't have to plug their ears for the light show.

So we did & come to find out, the Mosin made a great host. Curiousity was killing me one day so I got a few boxes of PPU heavy ball fmj. By the end of the box I was picking off pieces of clay pigeon @ 100m. No bench, not even a sling! I absolutely could not believe this rusty spray painted rifle shaped object of my friends could hit anything, let alone purposely.

The straw that broke the camel's back was when I found a guy with real B32 ammo (armor piercing incendiary) I called my friend, struck a deal & the 'sewer pipe' is now mine.

That made me curious about the Finn rifles. I just bought a decent M39 from Classic. Wow. That is a completely different rifle. The trigger isn't mush. The sights are far, far more precise & the barrel has rifling!! Oh yeah the stock is MUCH beefier & has a grip as a proper rifle should. I've only had it out once & then I forgot 'the good stuff' but even with LPS it was shooting well. This rifle shows a lot of promise & 54R is my new favorite caliber but I doubt it will be the jewel of a Swede or Swiss.

And now I have enroute a Spanish FR8. I always thought those were the coolest looking guns. Plus its already threaded for my can...

Wood
Steel
Iron sights
Common 30 cal round
Proven action that takes strippers!
& ready for my can?? :D

Thats like the coolest gun ever!!

Along with most of these rifles I have all the strippers, pig stickers, proper sling, a variety of surplus ammo including AP & tracers. Its a very slippery slope. I almost get as much pleasure out of collecting the rifle's accessories as the rifle itself. Thats actually why I finally broke & bought the FR8 as I found a few rounds of very rare european 308 / 7.62x51 to test so I needed a rifle to shoot them...

After this all I want is:
An uncut M96 Swede with bayo
A 96/11 pre 1898 & no import mark
A Bertheir 8mm. I mean come on, night sights in WWI? Are you kidding me??
A short Mosin in a laminate stock

That should hold me for awhile.

Maybe.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'd be adding a pair of Lee Enfields, an SMLE No1Mk111* and a No4. A 8mm Lebel Berthier would go well also, especially if you can get a bayonet. Nasty looking bit of kit, they used to call the bayonets 'Rosalie.' A long, nasty cruciform.

[AbitNutz]

The 8mm Lebel is interesting...doesn't that have a tube magazine? There are a myriad of SMLE's that I could get lost in.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The M16 Berthier has a three shot mag which is clip fed. A company in Australia is making the three shot clips. They were upgraded to a five shot clip. I think the first Lebel / Berthier was a tube mag affair. I am only interested in WW1 and WW2 mags and have a roughly typical one of each style of rifle. From memory;

Mausers:

8mm: Vaguero and Turkish Anakara

K98s in 308Israeli, 3006 FN

6.5 Swede
6.5 Jap
M16 Berthier
M36 MAS
SMLE No1Mk111 (no star as this belonged to a school Cadet unit and was never upgraded, which was typical of Cadet rifles).
No4 Mk1
No4 7.62 Lithgow conversion (full military trim, apart from no bayonet lug).
1903 Springfield
P14 Fatboy
M17 Remington (x2 both Remingtons)

and probably a few others I can't think of at the moment.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/BerthierM16Rifle6.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Military%20shooting/BerthierM16Rifle6.jpg.html)

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/BerthierM16Rifle2.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Military%20shooting/BerthierM16Rifle2.jpg.html)

[kawasakifreak77]

Ooooo those berthiers are neat! A friend of mine has one, or whats left of one.

I read about the night sights they had. Incredible for WWI! I also saw examples of AP, tracer & the short range practice ammo when I was at SLICS. Really neat stuff! I'll have to look up the bayonets for them, as I'm always looking for a new pig sticker!

Dangit now I need to buy another rifle!

[Four Fingers of Death]

Just be careful and research before you buy. Later ones and rebarrelled ones sometimes have large bores (0.340" or therabouts), I can't remember the details, but mine is a standard 8mm (0.323").

An interesting variant is the Carbine that was supplied to the Turkish Forestry Rangers.

[Silfield]

I'd be adding a pair of Lee Enfields, an SMLE No1Mk111* and a No4. A 8mm Lebel Berthier would go well also, especially if you can get a bayonet. Nasty looking bit of kit, they used to call the bayonets 'Rosalie.' A long, nasty cruciform.
Strangely enough I have a cruciform bayonet for one that is for sale at the moment! 20 1/2" blade on it. No luck in trying to sell it yet thou.

167558

[Four Fingers of Death]

A very select market unfortunately, I have one already, as I said before a thorough nasty bit of kit.

[Silfield]

Mine is hanging up next to a Martini Henry bayonet-dont know which one would be the worst to be on the receiving end of (neither I guess)

[AbitNutz]

I just got finished watching the movie Zulu. I hadn't seen it in years, so I bought the Blu-ray edition. It was worth it, what a great movie with all the period correct weapons. With Martini-Henry's they ended up using bayonets almost as much as the rifle. The only downside to the movie was there was almost no blood, guts or wounds. I guess we've gotten so used to total realism that a man getting shot point blank with a 577/450 and just falling down seems laughable. If the movie had been made today you'd see human anatomy sprayed, blown, sliced and diced all over the battlefield.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I saw an interesting documentary on the battle. It showed the gaps in the British defences and the failings of the Enfield under battle conditions. Poor quality ammo and a rifle held to too tight tolerances for black powder and reliable operation when very hot from repeated use.

The Brits also underestimated the Zulus. They were not just a mad mob, they were well organised, the young bloods, hyped up at the front as skirmishers, followed by more mature men, followed by the seasoned fighters who were well placed to inflict maximum damage amongst the disturbed defenders.

The jade skull that the medicine man wore around his neck, had pressure points marked out so that the pressurised skull that had been damaged from a blow could be relieved. This allowed the wounded soldier to recover, or if necessary, be issued pain killing drugs and sent back into battle.

[ak_milsurp]

I currently have 140+ "milsurps" in my collection. Most of the Mosin variants (from SIX countries), Ross M10 mk3b, Swiss M96/11, K31, Steyr M95 carbines and long rifles , M95M, French M1916, MAS 36, 36/51, MAS 49/56, & 49/56 MSE, Spanish 1893, M43, M1916, M1895 Mauser RIFLES & Carbines, Argentine 1891 rifles and carbines, Venezuela M24/30, Dutch M1895 mannlicher, German K98k, German/Turk M1888 commission rifle, Turk M88/05/10, M1903, M1938, & M1946 rifles, Columbian M1947/58 Madsen, British No 1 mk3, Ishapore 2A1, No4 mk1, No4 mk2, rifles, No 5 Jungle carbine, Swedish 1894, 1896, 96/38, & M96 FSR RIFLES, Swedish Ljungman AG42B, Egyptian Hakim, Rashid, & FN49, US M1 catbine, Garand, & M1917, Romanian PSL, Yugo M76 , M24/47, M1948,

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[ak_milsurp]

I currently have 140+ "milsurps" in my collection. Most of the Mosin variants (from SIX countries), Ross M10 mk3b, Swiss M96/11, K31, Steyr M95 carbines and long rifles , M95M, French M1916, MAS 36, 36/51, MAS 49/56, & 49/56 MSE, Spanish 1893, M43, M1916, M1895 Mauser RIFLES & Carbines, Argentine 1891 rifles and carbines, Venezuela M24/30, Dutch M1895 mannlicher, German K98k, German/Turk M1888 commission rifle, Turk M88/05/10, M1903, M1938, & M1946 rifles, Columbian M1947/58 Madsen, British No 1 mk3, Ishapore 2A1, No4 mk1, No4 mk2, rifles, No 5 Jungle carbine, Swedish 1894, 1896, 96/38, & M96 FSR RIFLES, Swedish Ljungman AG42B, Egyptian Hakim, Rashid, & FN49, US M1 catbine, Garand, & M1917, Romanian PSL, Yugo M76 , M24/47, M1948,

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
And that doesn't include the modern Rifles and handguns... Lol. I guess I'm a collector....[emoji12]

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[xringshutr]

If you like Mosin's at all......a M39 Finn is a must. And I agree, you have to have at least one Swiss straight pull in 7.5x55. The Swiss are likely the most accurate of all the Milsurps.....debatable, but if one were to test 20 rifles of each manufacturer/country, the Swiss would likely win.

[Scharfschuetze]

Swiss K31

As noted by many, the Swiss rifles are a great choice. I wish I would have bought a few of the earlier long rifles in my youth. The hardware stores had 'em in barrels at less than a $20 dollar bill.

[Scharfschuetze]

Probably my favorite surplus rifles outside of US Springfield Armory production are the early Mausers. The Argentine Mausers have proven to be accurate and usually in very good condition compared to many other rifles of the same period.

[OptimusPanda]

I notice you didn't have the 1886/93 Lebel on that list. I've seen a couple around, they aren't quite unobtainium. That rifle is next on my must buy list.

[MT Chambers]

Mauser M71, 71/84. 1888
Mannlicher M1895