Babbitt ingot ???

[turtlezx]

Found in a old car repair shop from the 1940s-50s
ingot has been partially melted on 1 end .
So i lost a letter or 2 (??ENDER COMPANY NEW YORK )
8"L 2"W 1" H
SCRATCH TEST is about as hard as WW
Know what the composition is ????

thanx turtle

[Lloyd Smale]

that's probably body filler. Usually 5050 lead/tin.

[Budzilla 19]

My Dad said the body filler used in those days was as described by Lloyd Smale. Dad has since passed away, so I just have my recollections for now, but I distinctly remember that description!! Just have it XRF gunned to be sure. Worth having if just for historical value!

[runfiverun]

body lead come in triangles and star shapes.
the tin content varied from 10% to about 40% the higher amounts of tin were used on the flatter spots of the body and the lower amounts were used on the more vertical panels.
the higher melt point allowed the lead to be worked more without falling to the floor.
and the higher tin content allowed the lead to lay flatter and smoother so required less work when finishing.

[Lloyd Smale]

I was wrong. I asked my buddy who is a body man and he told me most of it was 60/40. He said he still had some and it came in bars that were about an inch wide x 1/4 in thick x 12" long. He said it came in other ways from other manufactures and did vary in tin vs lead but usually was 60/40

[runfiverun]

in the 40's-50's many of the old timers still knew how to pour the bearings into the engines made back in the 20's.
stuff like the model-A didn't use removable bearings like is used today.
the main journal bearings were hot poured from Babbit bars right into the engine block around the crank shaft.
they were high tin for sure but many also contained copper and nickel.
I still have a bar of high nickel Babbit used for doing this.

[turtlezx]

Would I be able to tell the tin % if I pour this into a 230gr mold and weigh it ??
Compaired to the same mold cast with WW ??

turtle

[cwheel]

turtlezx, answer to your question is no. Babbitt is usually sold in 4 grades. I have used only 3 of these, but had to pour lots of bearings for old motors. Lets start out by saying that now Babbitt is quit expensive to buy now depending on the grade. It is graded 1X to 4X with 1X having the highest lead content, and 4X having the highest copper and nickel content. Single X Babbitt is the softest alloy, 4X is the hardest. If the bar isn't marked, hard to tell what you have. Only way you are going to tell what real content you have in that bar is send it to a lab. I'm fairly sure you don't want to go through that expense. I have a life time supply of 4X that was melted out of old large bearings being re-cast and re-bored, makes great bullets when mixed with other alloys. Throw out the question what % of anything it is, and use it to mix with your normal alloy when smelting for casting bullets. Best way is to start out melting your normal lead alloy in the smelting pot, don't over fill the pot, leave room in the pot to add to the mix, start out with 70% or less. When you have brought the melt up to temp and fluxed with some sort of wax, skim the dross off the top of the melt to clean it up. Cast into that 230 gr. mold you have and after you start to get some good bullets, stop and weigh one. Most likely, with normal scrap lead, the weight will come out heavy to the marked weight of the mold. Add your Babbitt to bring the weight of the cast bullets back to the marked weight of the mold. I usually quit when it's within 2 grains of the rated weight of that mold. Finally, take finished cast bullet to a hard surface, stand it on end, give it a good smack with a 2 lb. hammer. The bullet should flatten out and be about half as long as before hit, and not crack. If it cracks during this test, alloy is to brittle, mix with more lead content and try again until weight and hardness test good. Lyman #2 alloy is how most molds are rated for weight, and weight = density of a cast object of a given size. ( important to note for those who fuss about what % of any given element is in your alloy, that this is not a indicator of that, only density and hardness ) If you match the density of your alloy to the rated weight of the mold, you will end up with a hard cast bullet that closely duplicates Lyman #2 alloy. In these times, most of us are using scrap lead for casting. Little is known about this scrap about it's content of anything. It won't matter to most casters what's in the mix as long as the density ( weight ) and hardness are what's needed. Babbitt is great for doing your own alloy, give this a try, sure you will like the results.
chris
PS. about the size of your bar, it is the size of a normal Babbitt ingot, but without markings it's hard to tell what you have.

[turtlezx]

Very nice writeup CW thanx for all the usefull information
turtle

[runfiverun]

you could do a percentage weight.
compared to a boolit made of pure lead and one of pure tin at the other end of the weight spectrum.
wherever your babbit boolits weight falls in between the two gives you a percentage of lead/tin.

[cwheel]

Runfiverun, you would be right if the alloy in Babbitt was just tin and lead, but it's not. Babbitt has copper and nickel alloyed into it in various amounts for it's bearing qualities, and melting pure copper and pure nickel to do the same test in 4 variables is a no go, it puts you into a lab analysis. 1X Babbitt has the most pure lead, 4X the highest alloy. Most of us casters don't need to care what the percentage of anything is in the mix as long as you can cast consistent bullet weights with a consistent suitable hardness that won't lead up a barrel. In 40 years of casting I've discovered that consistentancy between batches of reloads, accuracy depend on being able to duplicate bullet weight and hardness among other things. Of course everyone has their own way to do this, this is just mine that was passed on through the family for 3 generations now. Passing it on to the 4 generation this summer.
chris

[runfiverun]

they do have copper and stuff in them.
but it's generally in the 5% or so area, by the time you mix the tin in at 1% the other stuff is too low to worry about.
plus we are just looking for a rough estimate to make some boolits with.
a little bit off one way or another ain't gonna mess up a bucket of unknown ww alloy all that much.