need advice on siamese mauser feeding issues

[Andy]

I just purchased an unfinished "Flaig's" rifle in 45-70, built off a siamese mauser action. Rifle barrel looks very top-end, great bluing job, professionally bent bolt handle, williams sight and buehler safety. All installed in a nicely roughed out beautiful curly maple stock that just needs a bit of final sanding/file work and finishing. Everything about the gun and my info from googling flaig's suggests a professionally made sporter except that it has magazine/feeding issues. Got it for a nice low price knowing it was a project gun with that issue, looking to see if I can improve it but if I can't I'm ok with it the way it is so not looking to do anything risky.

Here's the current status of it:
- 1 round in magazine: round feeds reliably all the time but feels a bit loose in the magazine and looks like the forward part of the round is a bit too loose in the magazine/follower area.
- 2 rounds in magazine (this is the only round that is staggered to the left in the magazine): functions perfectly and looks/feels 100% like a factory gun.
- 3 rounds in magazine (max possible): Top round is riding way too high too look right, still loads okay but round is not secure and will rotate out of the magazine (pivoting off the rim) if you hold the rifle vertically and handle/bump it.

My analysis:
I feel like the right feed rail is probably the cause of this issue due to #2 above being fine and #1 and #3 rounds not being good. I think it is likely that too much material was removed from the front of the right feed rail, as the rounds are loosest in this area.

Does my conclusion seem logical to you guys? Is there any trick to test out having more material on the front of the feed rail without a permanent mod?

I am very happy to have this gun and if I load 3 in the mag then chamber one to hunt with I at least have one reliably good follow up shot (#2 round off the left rail), so I feel like the gun is useable as is, but wouldn't mind pursuing options to fix it up correctly just on principle.

Thanks,
Andy

[cpileri]

Hope its OK if I tag this thread. Unfortunately, I cant help answer your question. ( I just have a similar feed problem that I believe is a slightly loos bolt head that rotates and snags on the read locking lug; I just cant figure out how to remove the bolt to do some adjusting!)

Hoping to find some Siamese Mauser experts here.
C-

[Andy]

Well, I at least have a good, inexpensive 2 shot rifle. If I never get the third shot I still consider it a great deal. If anyone ever comes up with some ideas on this please PM us in this thread so we can see what you have to say.

[William Yanda]

Have you tried the Mauser Forum?

[nekshot]

that gun is totally useless as is but I will gladly take it off your hands!

[waksupi]

If possible, I would try changing followers.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I probably can't contribute much except to add to your anxiety--but for what it's worth: I've never worked on one of the Siamese Mausers, but have a friend who built one in gunsmithing school when we attended together some 35 years ago. The major problem with the conversion, and about the only problem as I recall, was the feed lips which had to be altered. Fortunately there were two instructors who were familiar with the job and eventually he got it right, but it was a "cut and try" operation, a bit at a time. Unfortunately, once metal is removed it's hard to put it back. I have read somewhere about feed lips being built up with weld and reshaped, but you're talking a lot of time, skill, and probably expense. Practically speaking, you're probably going to have to settle for what you've got. I own one Flaig's rifle, a Norwegian Krag in 6.5x55mm, a very nice rifle that works perfectly, but no conversion was involved. You don't see that many, so you're lucky to have one.
DG

[bouncer50]

If possible, I would try changing followers. Yes the followers and spring is different then a regular 98 mauser. I have a complete Siamese mauser and 3 action to build on. ER shaw is well know for building 45-70 on Siamese action

[AbitNutz]

I have a couple of Siamese Mauser's, one in 45/70 and the other in .303 British. The 303 feeds like a dream. It will actually hold 6 rounds and still work. The 45/70 not so much. It will hold three and that's it. After that it becomes a jam-O-matic. Mine originally came from Navy Arms eons ago and a local gunsmith stocked it with Mannlicher full length wood and put a Timney trigger in it. I believe that Navy Arms did mess with the magazine rails but how much and where, I have no idea. I can also tell you that if you plan to take a file to those rails, pack a lunch. That metal is HARD. To remove a significant amount by hand will take a very good file and some serious dedication.

It's amazing to me that they can make an automatic shotgun that will feed a 12, even a 10 gauge shell with a humongous rim that's completely flat in the front and it runs like a dream. My old Ithaca Mag 10 and my Browning Auto 5 just hum away...and what about Saiga's? I wouldn't own one but they feed 12 gauge from gigantic magazine.

Anyway, back to the 45/70. Weirdly enough, mine feeds better when I pay attention to which side the shells are stacked on. If the bolt starts on a shell from the right, everything seems fine. If it starts on the left, it will pile up. Or maybe it's the other way around...

Also, I have played with different followers, P14's by Eddystone and Winchester. They are completely different and...neither remotely fit. They're way too long. It would take some work to get either in.

I've also played with magazine springs. I have no idea what I have in there now but Sarco and Numrich are your friends for trying various ones. They're relatively cheap so you can buy a half a dozen to play with. I have an assortment of just about every Mauser-esk box magazine spring they made, ground to fit, from M48 's to 03 Springfield's.

An excellent idea was mentioned earlier. Call ER Shaw. You may be able to talk to someone there that knows the details of the 45/70 conversion. Failing that, you may be able to send it to them...

Once you have it sorted...they're amazing rifles. You can put a Timney trigger on it and through judicious handloading, make quite a cannon out of it.

[flounderman]

The Siamese Mauser was a rimmed case and the follower spring is not like a 98. The follower is wider, also. I got one in 348 that didn't have the spring and follower and I had to use the 98 and it doesn't work right. I saw a spring for one once that had hinges, instead of bends and each hinge had little springs. I never saw another one like it. If you have a 98 follower and spring, it won't help to work on the rails. If you feel a rail needs building up, if you get it clean and grease free, JB weld would work, maybe. The magazine box is slanted and the spring is further back on the bottom, than the top if you have a Siamese spring.

[Andy]

Thanks for the replies everyone, the post must have got buried the first time and I'm glad to have this info that came from bringing it back up. I didn't know about ER shaw and I'll give them a call this week, thanks very much for the tip.

Thanks for the ideas on the followers, if I can get some inexpensive spares I'll experiment with that.

I actually haven't even disassembled the rifle since I got it, the trigger is very nice right now, feels like 2-3 lbs, might be an aftermarket trigger for all I know at this point.

I could make back most of what I paid for it by selling the williams sight and the buehler safety so you won't hear me complaining about this gun even if it is never more than a two-shot.