Savage Mod. 219 trigger jobs?

[dubber123]

Does anyone have a source for a 'smith that will work on the Savage 219 single shot rifles?. I sent mine to a well respected gunsmith, and just spoke with him, and he is returning it with the existing trigger, and prefers not to work on it.

This gun, in 30-30, shoots very well with cast, and thats what I bought it for. The trigger is however absolutely horrible, and it really needs attention.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Kraschenbirn]

Dubber...

How "handy" are you?

I did a "trigger job" on a 219 in .22 Hornet...first Hornet I ever owned...many years ago and, as I recall, there wasn't all that much to it. Mostly, it was just a matter of a good internal cleaning and touching things up a bit...polishing out tool marks, a bit of judicious lapping here and there, etc. Not a "match" job, by any means, but when I was done, it broke cleanly without any creep. If you don't have one, I've got an exploded assembly diagram for the 219 and will scan a copy and e-mail it to you.

Bill

[dubber123]

Dubber...

How "handy" are you?

I did a "trigger job" on a 219 in .22 Hornet...first Hornet I ever owned...many years ago and, as I recall, there wasn't all that much to it. Mostly, it was just a matter of a good internal cleaning and touching things up a bit...polishing out tool marks, a bit of judicious lapping here and there, etc. Not a "match" job, by any means, but when I was done, it broke cleanly without any creep. If you don't have one, I've got an exploded assembly diagram for the 219 and will scan a copy and e-mail it to you.

Bill

Bill, I'm reasonably handy I guess, I've been doing my own trigger jobs on Marlin levers, and Ruger single actions, spring kits on S&W's etc., but those are easy. I will PM you with an E-mail addy for a copy of that exploded diagram, it's much appreciated.

This trigger is in the 8 pound plus range, and very creepy, it's a bear to shoot well.

Thanks, Paul.

[Bret4207]

If you can do the others, you can do the Savage. As was mentioned, all you'll do is polish the tool marks out, clean things up. Make sure to use a good long lasting lube on the mating surfaces. Even "Never-seize" would be preferable to "WD-40". "Break Free CLP" might be a good choice too. Make sure the sides of all the moving parts are burr free and that the pin holes are lubed too.

[KCSO]

Remember you will need slave pins to get that 219 together again.

[dubber123]

Thanks for the info guys, it's due back this coming Wednesday, it may be next weekends project. Hopefully the pins will be a common size, or I will have to sucker someone into turning me some.

[dubber123]

I finally tackled it today, and now wonder why I waited! At least my model of 219 is very easy to work on. The trigger doesn't need to be removed, just the mainspring, sear pivot pin, and trigger sear pin.

My brother and I did it in less than 1 hr., and that included making a longer bushing to tighten up some of the slop, polishing the sear surfaces, beveling the back side of the sear to reduce trigger travel, and welding up the hammer to get full contact with the firing pin. The hammer stopped short of giving full pin protrusion, and I believe that was the cause of my misfires with harder primers.

This is no "match" trigger now, but it is very crisp, and smooth, and most of all, CONSISTANT!.

Thanks to all who helped.

[NoDakJak]

While returning home from Wyoming today I stoppe in Billings and cheched a couple pawn shops. I found a 219 Savage in 3030 that appeared to be unfired for a decent price. It seems to be late fifties or early sixties, just before they changed to the new style. There are a few faint rust marks near the muzzle and some scuff marks on the stock. There was so much dust in the barrel that you could barely see that it was rifled. A quick cleaning after I arrived home discloses an apparently new bore. Considering how tight and hard operating this little SOB is I can see why. A child or most women would not be able to operate this extremely hard operating single.
I have been testing cast loads in a 336 Marlin, a 94 Winchester and a Savage Model 170 pump. This will be a most welcome addition. I anticipate a trigger job and if it doesn't loosen up a bit after some shooting I may have to perform some judicious polishing on the action.
Neil

[jlchucker]

I wish they still made the 219. IMO it offers light-years more quality than anything recently made by H&R/NEF.

[Nueces]

Yeah, it was a surprisingly graceful rifle; had the lines of a British Rook or Stalking Rifle.

Frank de Haas had a chapter on them in "A Potpourri of Single Shot Rifles and Actions." He describes each model and shows great action drawings. Gunsmithing is covered in his "Mr. Single Shot's Gunsmithing Idea Book," which includes a few paragraphs on trigger work.

Mark

[NoDakJak]

Well, it turns out that this little beastie has a really decent trigger pull. That was a total surprise. Headspace seem to be on the button. The locking lug appears to be slightly too long and removing several thousandths from the end should provide a silky smooth action.
Nueces: You are certainly right about the 219 being much sleeker and well built than the H&R or New England Arms that are chambered for the 3030. I was stationed in England for several years during the mid seventies and learned to highly esteem the Rook Rifles. I brought several back to the states with me. This cartridge is a bit large to be considered a "Bunny Gun" by Ed Harris but I will certainly see what it will do with the lighter bullets. I certainly won't neglect the heavier slugs however. This afternoon I loaded ten test rounds with 16.0 grains of 4759 behind the Lee 170F as that boolit has been working well in my other 3030's and has been superb in my #3 Ruger chambered for 3040 Krag. I have to head down to South Dakota for several days but hope to test it by late this week. Neil

[Nueces]

Hi, Neil

Good on ya, mate, for bringing back those little Rook rifles. I got one over there, too, a William Evans, just beautiful.

My 219 is an old Hornet, with a not-so-good bore, but a very light trigger. My 'someday' plan has been to rebore it to 25-35 and to spruce it up some, with a nice trigger guard and some sort of aperture rear sight.

One of these, like yours, in 30-30 would be fine. With boolits of 140 gr or so, you'd have a sort of super 32-20.

Mark

[trooperdan]

I used to have a 219 in .30-30 with a spare barrel in .22 Hornet! It was a lovely thing but got stolen.. I'm looking for any 219's at all now.

[dubber123]

Yeah, it was a surprisingly graceful rifle; had the lines of a British Rook or Stalking Rifle.

Frank de Haas had a chapter on them in "A Potpourri of Single Shot Rifles and Actions." He describes each model and shows great action drawings. Gunsmithing is covered in his "Mr. Single Shot's Gunsmithing Idea Book," which includes a few paragraphs on trigger work.

Mark

Mark, I thought so too on the lines resembling a Stalking rifle. I stripped and oil finished the stocks on mine, and took the opportunity to thin the forend a bunch, making it even sleeker. I like the thumb safety also.

[dubber123]

Well, it turns out that this little beastie has a really decent trigger pull. That was a total surprise. Headspace seem to be on the button. The locking lug appears to be slightly too long and removing several thousandths from the end should provide a silky smooth action.
Nueces: You are certainly right about the 219 being much sleeker and well built than the H&R or New England Arms that are chambered for the 3030. I was stationed in England for several years during the mid seventies and learned to highly esteem the Rook Rifles. I brought several back to the states with me. This cartridge is a bit large to be considered a "Bunny Gun" by Ed Harris but I will certainly see what it will do with the lighter bullets. I certainly won't neglect the heavier slugs however. This afternoon I loaded ten test rounds with 16.0 grains of 4759 behind the Lee 170F as that boolit has been working well in my other 3030's and has been superb in my #3 Ruger chambered for 3040 Krag. I have to head down to South Dakota for several days but hope to test it by late this week. Neil

Neil, the 311291 is my most accurate boolit so far, but out of the GB mould. I had a 2 cavity Lyman that shot so-so, and I found out why: The bore riding nose portion was at .301", and was very loose in my 219. The GB mould got cut oversize, with a nose around .303", and really shrunk the groups in my Savage. 6 at a time is nice too...[smilie=1:

Glad you got one with a decent trigger. The RCBS 98 gr. SWC shot well under 1" at 50 yds. out of mine if you want a "bunny boolit".

[Nueces]

Dubber and NoDak, would y'all mind posting some pix? 219s and rooks, please. I'll borrow my wife's camera and take some of my Rook. Maybe we oughta start another thread.

Mark

[dubber123]

Dubber and NoDak, would y'all mind posting some pix? 219s and rooks, please. I'll borrow my wife's camera and take some of my Rook. Maybe we oughta start another thread.

Mark

Mark, I'll give it a try. I've been lax in my pic post "attempts" lately anyway.[smilie=1:

[Nueces]

Yeah, me too. I need my own camera. Right after I have all the rifled bores and tools I want, promise. :drinks:

Mark

[trebarkwee]

savage 219 riflesJust a quick reply, there are two 219 actions, each completely differant, one has a striker as a firing pin, the other has a hammer that that actually strikes a firing pin. I have a 30-30, model 219 b that has apparently a common problem, that being the firing pin hits off center the primer, a gunsmithing issue that takes some time to remedy.

[NoDakJak]

trebarkwee: You are right about there being two types of 219 actions. Frank De Hass in his book "Mr. Single Shot's Gunsmithing Idea Book" covered the problem of the off-center firing pin strikes. He went to great lengths to rectify the problem in one of his rifles and when finished found that it had not made it shoot any better. Frank was a gunsmith and performed most of his own work and it was extensive to cure this problem. If you had to pay for the work it would just be cheaper to buy a Ruger #1. If you aren't getting miss-fires due to this problem I would ignore it and just shoot. Good luck! Neil

[NoDakJak]

dubber123: Tell me more about those loads. What did you size them to and what powders. I have a fine mold for the RCBS 098. Works great in my 32-20's but oly so-so in the 7.62 x 39. I tested it in both a SKS and a CZ 527. 311008 seems to work better in my guns.
I bought a new RCBS mold for the 30-150-F a couple months ago. What a piece of junk! Using acww the boolit is very out of round and undersize. .307 to .310 and the nose is .292 to .298. Theoretically it shouldn't shoot and my various 30-30's agree. My best group is eight inchs at fifty yards with the old 336. I was getting ready to send it back to RCBS but decided to try it in my Ruger #3 chambered for 30-40. It shouldn't shoot a bit better in that rifle but instead turns in consistent 5/8 to 3/4 groups at fifty yards. Explain that one to me because I just can't figure it out. It shoots especially well with Varget and Ramshots, Enforcer. Ramshot has not tested Enforcer with cast loads but in my limited tests it is turning out to be a great cast boolit powder. I prefer it to AA9. Neil

[Bret4207]

You guys are right about the "graceful" feel to the older guns. Take the Remington M-14, much sleeker than the later 742's. Or the example given of th Savage 219 vs the H+R products. Or the present Marlin lever guns vs their older model 36. I wonder if they think "chunky and clunky" is in, or it just takes more $$ to slim the wood down?

[Bret4207]

dubber123: Tell me more about those loads. What did you size them to and what powders. I have a fine mold for the RCBS 098. Works great in my 32-20's but oly so-so in the 7.62 x 39. I tested it in both a SKS and a CZ 527. 311008 seems to work better in my guns.
I bought a new RCBS mold for the 30-150-F a couple months ago. What a piece of junk! Using acww the boolit is very out of round and undersize. .307 to .310 and the nose is .292 to .298. Theoretically it shouldn't shoot and my various 30-30's agree. My best group is eight inchs at fifty yards with the old 336. I was getting ready to send it back to RCBS but decided to try it in my Ruger #3 chambered for 30-40. It shouldn't shoot a bit better in that rifle but instead turns in consistent 5/8 to 3/4 g roups at fifty yards. Explain that one to me because I just can't figure it out. It shoots especially well with Varget and Ramshots, Enforcer. Ramshot has not tested Enforcer with cast loads but in my limited tests it is turning out to be a great cast boolit powder. I prefer it to AA9. Neil

Nodak- Simple- each barrel, each gun is a law unto itself. That boolit in that alloy just fits that gun. I'm not talking down to you when I say that, it's just something we all seem to forget. Even with jacketed some loads and bullets works better in some guns. There are no hard and fast rules to this game.:-D

[dubber123]

dubber123: Tell me more about those loads. What did you size them to and what powders. I have a fine mold for the RCBS 098. Works great in my 32-20's but oly so-so in the 7.62 x 39. I tested it in both a SKS and a CZ 527. 311008 seems to work better in my guns.
I bought a new RCBS mold for the 30-150-F a couple months ago. What a piece of junk! Using acww the boolit is very out of round and undersize. .307 to .310 and the nose is .292 to .298. Theoretically it shouldn't shoot and my various 30-30's agree. My best group is eight inchs at fifty yards with the old 336. I was getting ready to send it back to RCBS but decided to try it in my Ruger #3 chambered for 30-40. It shouldn't shoot a bit better in that rifle but instead turns in consistent 5/8 to 3/4 groups at fifty yards. Explain that one to me because I just can't figure it out. It shoots especially well with Varget and Ramshots, Enforcer. Ramshot has not tested Enforcer with cast loads but in my limited tests it is turning out to be a great cast boolit powder. I prefer it to AA9. Neil

If you mean the load for the RCBS 98 SWC, it was 4.5 grs. of Bullseye, no filler. My powder drop for my .45 ACP was set for that charge, so thats what it got[smilie=1:. Size was .312".

[NoDakJak]

I made it to the range yesterday with the 219. Shot at 50 yards. I could barely discern the bulleseye at that range. No matter! Five rounds, no holes on paper. I had just mined the berm so it was easy to see that I had been hitting low. Raised the old opensight and fired five more rounds. One hole on the very bottom edge of the paper. Damn! Raised it two more notchs and fired the last ten rounds. Eight holes near the bottom edge. Hmmm!
Thought that I just couldn't well enough to shoot open sights at 50 yards.
Went back out this morning with three loads. Moved to the 25 yard range. The 16.5 grain load of 4759 shot into 2 9/16". Ouch! The next load was 6.7 grains of Trail Boss with the 115 grain "Montana Cast Bullet" that is prinipally meant for the 32-20. They come sized and lubed at .313 so I ran them through the .311 sizer and then without changing the die adjustment seated them. The one wide lube was totally exposed and the nose was a snug fit in the throat. I fired ten rounds. six rounds touching. Four in 5/8" but the others opened the group to 1 5/8'. The last load was 12.0 grains of 2400 behind the same 115 grain boolit. I didn't pay attention to the powder position for the first four shots and it shot wild. I made sure that the powder was positioned at the rear of the case for the final six rounds and was rewarded with a group that spanned 1/2" in height and 1 1/2" in width. Blame that on my lousy trigger control. I have never used filler in a bottle neck cartridge. Any suggestions?
Neil

[NoDakJak]

Nueces: That is a great idea about starting a new thread. You are elected to do the honors. Whatcha gonna calli? Rook Rifles and Small Game Guns? Catchy title! It will take a while before I can figure out how to post pictures on here. I do have a new camera however.
Neil

[NoDakJak]

Nueces: Your mention of your William Evans, Rook Rifle piqued my interest and I bagan a little research in my books. Right now I have my copy of"Pistorial History of the Rifle" by G.W.P. Swenson open to page 149. Plate #214 shows a Hammerless William Evans Stalking Rifle that is chambered. Very nice, sleek looking piece. I have only seen a couple William Evans firearms but they have appeared to be extremely well made and ultra desireable.
Tell us a little bit about yours. Is it a hammerless model? I don't even know if Evans made a hammer model. What is it chambered for and have you been shooting it? Most of the Rook Rifles that I saw and got to handle were Martinis followed by Tilt Barrels. I can't remember the caliber now but I drool over the thought of an H&H , Tilt Barrel Rook Rifle that I just couldn't afford. Most of the Centerfire Rook Rifles that I encountered were chambered for the 360 #5 cartridge followed by the .300 Sherwood. One of the interesting Rook Rifles that I brought back was a Comblain that had originall been chambered for a cartridge that just allowed a Kynock Rose Petal, 410 case to be chambered and fired. I purchased it from an ancient proffesional poacher that had used it for all his life. He also had a couple cases of the 410 ammo but declined allowing me to have even a single round. As it had never been registered I was forced to remove the rifling and declare it to be an antique in order to possess andship it to the states. One of the first things that I did upon returning to the states was to tour the muesum at Rock Island Arsenal. They had a miitary issue Comblain on display and that is when I discovered that UI had what Frank De Hass conjectured to be a Baby Comblain. A couple years later I took the rifle to him and he stated that it was only the fifth that he had been informed of since he wrote the book and the first that he had seen. He took pictures and measurements to include in an update but never got to use them before he passed away. Another was a Zeller Martini that had originally been chambered for the 360 #5 Rook but had later been smoothbored and re-proofed for the 360 #5 shot cartridge. A few years ago I suffered a serious back injury and was forced to sell the Comblain but still have the Zeller. Neil

[Nueces]

Hi, Neil

My Evans is a Purdey style hammerless 'tilt barrel', marked "William Evans (from Purdey's)", which was apparently done by some makers who had got their start at Purdeys. It is gorgeous, engraved and case hardened, matted top barrel flat, but chambered in 250 Rook and with a poor bore. One reason I liked it was because the small bore could be recut to 32.

The figured stock has a checkered butt and a fairly long length of pull - it's not a boy's rifle. For a long time, my plan has been to rebore it to 32 H&R, since that case is quite in line with the old Rook straight cases. Now, I may go to the new 327, not with the idea of loading at factory pressures, but in order to accommodate somewhat heavier boolits at iron-sight velocities. Now, with the eyes having more trouble with open sights, I have not found a fitting way to use an aperture sight on this beauty.

To be completely honest, having a rifle like this, full of potential, is sorta like being a teenager again - everything's possible until you start making choices. So, I fondle it and think of how many glorious futures it could have. One does have to grow up sometime, though. I've already had Kirk Merrington install a small-diameter firing pin and was all set to have Cliff LaBounty do the bore, but he quit the business and also couldn't do a 0.304 bore. My attention has been elsewhere since then.

By next month, though, I'll be alone in the country house, with the pooch, while wife and daughter live in town for the school year. I'll likely blather more here and have more time for gun projects. Right, such 'plans' usually work out just that way, don't they? [smilie=1:

Mark