Assistance needed on a .45ACP Semi Automatic

[Virginia John]

I have a recently acquired .45ACP Semi Auto ( not a 1911). I am trying to work up loads for it bti it is giving me a little trouble and I could use your assistance. Every boolit (230LRN) passed the plunk test prior to shooting. My quandary is that I can't remember when a round wont go into full battery is the load that was just shot too light not allowing full recoil or is the recoil spring too light or is it something totally different? Appreciate your thoughts.

[str8wal]

The load may be too light, not allowing the slide a full stroke so the spring can develop the energy necessary to return to battery. Or, the spring could be weak. How far do the empties fly when ejected?

[Swede44mag]

Do the rounds cycle manually maybe they do not fit properly. This may sound stupid but not all round nose bullets or boolits are shaped the same.
My friend had a problem with a certain brand of FMJ 230gr 45ACP not cycling, he went with a different brand and the worked fine.
I have had good luck with my Lyman 230gr lead round nose bullet mold working in every Colt gold cup (yes I have had 4), Kimber, Spring Field, and Sig I tried them in.

Good luck

[Groo]

Groo here
Are your loads light, are they to spec length, if so check the extractor for a burr.
I would look at the load first, If you have it ,,, 5 gr Bullseye with a 230gr bullet at correct length is WW2 spec.

[hp246]

I have a Sig 220 in .45 ACP. As long as the load is a full power load, it will eat it with no problem. If it says Match on the box or I try to shoot light reloads it is a no go. Just the way it is timed and sprung. I don't screw with it. Just use regular power reloads or inexpensive ball.

[Virginia John]

I had another thought, what about the spring length. This recoil spring seems to be extremely long and is a pain to put the slide back together. I am wondering if the spring may have been replaced with whatever was handy and not the proper replacement. I am going to order one and see what I get.

[brass2bullets]

I use LEE 230 truncated cast bullets in my SW M&P 45 with 5.2gr of bullseye. Works great. You either have to strong of a spring, or weak loads. If you have tried factory loads and they don't cycle I'd lean towards replacing the spring.


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[NC_JEFF]

Never forget.......we must manage the recoil properly with every shot in 45 ACP. If those wrist go a little bit limp with even one shot, the frame is no longer steady and the slide will not have full travel.

[22cf45]

My thought is that you should use the heaviest recoil spring which will still allow the pistol to reliably function the pistol. The fact that your round is not going into full battery could be caused by several other causes. For example, the inside bearing surface on your extractor can cause problems with the slide fully closing. Polishing your feed ramp might help also.
Phil

[Virginia John]

I think what I really need to do is send it down to Doug and get it throuted.

[C.F.Plinker]

What is your load? If you insert a full magazine, pull the slide all the way back by hand and release it will the round chamber? How far does it throw the brass when ejecting? When you fire it with a good solid grip can you feel that the slide comes to a stop and gives a sharp second recoil at the end of its travel?

On my target pistols I look for a load that is accurate first. If it doesn't function all of the time then I work with different recoil springs until it is reliable. My goal is to get reliability with a spring that is strong enough to just allow full rearward motion of the slide on recoil.

[clum553946]

Make sure the bullet is seated properly, if oal is too long, the bullet may be contacting the grooves before the round is in complete battery.

[str8wal]

I think what I really need to do is send it down to Doug and get it throuted.

Have you tried to run a box of factory ammo through it to see if you can isolate the problem somewhat? You said your loads were passing the "plunk" test.

[gray wolf]

Take out the recoil spring and try some dummy rounds without it, see if they function.

sharpy a few ans note the spots they are hanging on.

Get a new spring for the gun and don't over spring to fix the problem = band-aid.

[35remington]

How often does it occur?

[Tommygun2000]

I've found that the ojive shape is something that .45acp are critical of. If the gun feeds ball ammo and not other shapes then it may well be the shape of the bullet.

Remington Golden Saber HP bullets are the closest I've found to ball ammo and that is what I carry after much testing.

Cycle some of your rounds and see if they are scraping the top of the chamber when chambering.

OAL is also important, make up some test batches and vary them a bit and test and you should be able to find the right length for the bullet you're using.

[Virginia John]

How often does it occur?

Since I got the gun. I picked this up used at a pawn shop. I liked the look and feel and figured that whatever was wrong with it, I could fix. And that is where I am.

[35remington]

One more time.

How often does it occur? Often means frequency.

[str8wal]

One more time.

Does it run with factory ammo?

[runfiverun]

try one just one round with the magazine in the gun.
if it locks back you need just a tick more oomph.
if it don't you need a lot more oomph.

[Virginia John]

I don't shoot factory. Haven't shot factory since I started reloading, can't afford it. FMJ 230 over 5.2 Bullseye doesn't fully go into battery without a push.

[C. Latch]

If it is stripping the round from the magazine but they won't chamber without a tap on the slide, I don't know how they're passing the plunk test.

Can you remove the barrel and get us a picture of your plunk?

[DougGuy]

You haven't sent the barrel yet?

[fast ronnie]

Maybe a stupid thought, but has the slide rails been cleaned and lubed or are they dry? Just a random thought.

[str8wal]

FMJ 230 over 5.2 Bullseye doesn't fully go into battery without a push.

So then where does 5.2 grains fall in between the low and high for that bullet? I don't have an Alliant manual. I don't shoot factory either but it might be worth $20 just to try a box to see if it will run through the gun. In my semi-auto's I am usually right at or near max for them to run.

[35remington]

It is not the load. That much Bullseye is full power.

Stem binding. Look for a sharp edge on the chamber entrance bottom.

[ole 5 hole group]

I'll go with 35 remington's thoughts. rough ramp, chamber entrance or maybe the barrel bushing, if incorrectly fitted.

[35remington]

When a round passes the plunk test, yet is not fully chambering when being fired but goes into battery with a slight nudge of the back of the slide, that gives a possible hint that the round pivoting over the edge of the chamber is the hangup. A three point jam won't respond to a nudge....the slide must be retracted to clear the jam.

A stem bind is a very light three point jam, in effect, but progressed further into the chamber but also short of going in fully. Since the round must use the edge of the chamber as a pivot point, a sharp edge there prevents the round from "pivoting."

A picture of the jam would be helpful, but given the information presented that's how I'd guess. What OAL is the round being loaded to? If 230 FMJ of ball profile, correct overall length would be around 1.265." Some modern automatics don't feed ball as well as a 1911 with original GI magazines does, and they often tend to work better with shorter hollowpoints and SWC's or RNFP's. This is symptomatic of their magazine feed lip design and operating preferences.

I don't believe the make of gun has been discussed to any degree yet? What is it?

I don't think I'd throat it just yet....because the rounds pass the "plunk" test and it still stops short of full battery, which means it isn't a throat problem. The OP needs to give more details. What brand gun?

[Virginia John]

What about a very stiff extractor spring? And yes Doug it will soon be to you. I don't know how to shoot a picture of the sound of plunk.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

......

[35remington]

A picture of the jam is what I was asking for. If the rounds freely fit already, throating it is not the solution to fixing your problem.

Is there some reason you don't want to reveal what type of gun it is? Extractors are not usually problems unless they're in 1911's.

[Virginia John]

The bullets in the center two examples are what mine look like. The gun is an American Tactical C45 (not a 1911) made by Tisa now imported as a Tisa Zagani C45 made in Turkey.. I took 1/2 a coil out of the extractor spring and when working the slide by hand it seems to be working. I will get to the range the firdt part of next week and give it a try.

[C. Latch]

I took 1/2 a coil out of the extractor spring and when working the slide by hand it seems to be working. I will get to the range the firdt part of next week and give it a try.

If the gun is feeding properly the extractor should be over the rim of the cartridge long before it gets to the point where you're saying it jams up.

[35remington]

The rule for "fixing" something is to be sure to never modify anything unless you're sure that it addresses the actual problem and will cause no harm. Clipping a coil off the extractor spring before you know it is the cause of your problem appears to have flaunted that rule.

You may now have something else to fix. Reducing extractor tension has downsides. You may find that out the hard way.

I would agree with the previous post....extractor issues don't sound contributory.

[Char-Gar]

Without having you gun and ammo in hand, I can't diagnose your problem. But I can make two comments on what I have read thus far.

1. 5.2 grains of Bulldeye over a 230 FMJ bullets is .2 grains to much.
2. Cutting coils off of springs, without solid knowledge of why, is not a smart idea.

[earplug]

I had a issue with a modern 1911 with a 9MM size firing pin. The pin would stick and screw up feeding. This eventually caused a round to go bang when I let the slide forward. Took awhile to figure out the feeding issue.
I like the idea of checking the extractor tension.

[Virginia John]

The extractor tension was checked prior to removing 1/2 a coil.

[35remington]

Problem is, if the round is stopping just before closure of the slide as was described, it's not an extractor issue.

[MtGun44]

Tighten the taper crimp.

Bill

[C. Latch]

This thread could be resolved so much faster if we had some pictures and measurements.

[str8wal]

I had a Kahr CW45 a while back and the ammo that I shot from my 1911 would not go into battery every time in the Kahr. You could see on the bullets where the lands were making contact. I seated the bullets back a smidge and it ran like a champ. Just one more thing to consider.

[Virginia John]

On some guns the external extractor is also the loaded chamber indicator which says that the extractor rides up on the case when it is in full battery. If the spring is too tight, it will require some assistance to reach it's final resting place. Took it to the range today and it did fine. Just a little slow on a couple so a tad more will be removed from the spring.

Gentlemen, I appreciate all your suggestions and help on this project. Thanks.