Using 3F powder in rifle.

[vrh]

Hello everyone,

I have a 50 cal. CVA Inline rifle. I normally shoot 90 grains of 2F black powder behind a sabot bullet.
Is it possible or safe to shoot a reduced charge of 3F powder in the rifle? ( Have several pounds of 3F and 0 pounds of 2F powder) If it is possible, what would a reduced powder charge be?

[Vann]

Yes, 3F will be safe. I use 3F in all of my rifles up to 58 cal. No real need to reduce the charge just find where it likes to shoot and go.

[Earlwb]

Yes using 3F in a rifle is OK. It doesn't hurt anything. Some rifles may do better with 3F than 2F and vice versa.

[pietro]

.

+3

I even use FFFg in my flintlock rifles for both the main & the priming charges.

.

[Old Scribe]

Use the 3f and see what charges the rifle likes.

[odfairfaxsub]

I did it the other day and had reduced kick and easier patch cleaning between shots. I did 120 gr schutzen 3 f

[rodwha]

What I've read is that switching granulations generally calls for a 10% decrease to achieve the same velocity as 2F.

[Outpost75]

What I've read is that switching granulations generally calls for a 10% decrease to achieve the same velocity as 2F.

The quality of the powder is more important than the granulation. I have had more than 100 fps variation with the same volumetric charge simply changing to a different lot of Goex from the same year of production. You will get higher velocity and cleaner burn in a .50 cal. rifle with 1-1/2F Swiss or KIK than with anything ever made by Goex.

Goex sporting powders are the leftovers from military production used in the manufacture of fuses and artillery igniter packs. If you examine the granulation the screening is not uniform and there are alot of "fines" and the corning is non-uniformly done. Look at Swiss or KIK under a microscope and the difference is apparent. Hastily screened floor sweepings vs. purposely formulated for sporting purposes.

[rodwha]

The quality of the powder is more important than the granulation. I have had more than 100 fps variation with the same volumetric charge simply changing to a different lot of Goex from the same year of production. You will get higher velocity and cleaner burn in a .50 cal. rifle with 1-1/2F Swiss or KIK than with anything ever made by Goex.

Goex sporting powders are the leftovers from military production used in the manufacture of fuses and artillery igniter packs. If you examine the granulation the screening is not uniform and there are alot of "fines" and the corning is non-uniformly done. Look at Swiss or KIK under a microscope and the difference is apparent. Hastily screened floor sweepings vs. purposely formulated for sporting purposes.


Hmmm... I've read a couple of people prefer Olde Eynsford over Swiss.

I have also read about the fines.

I use 3F Olde E as I wanted to try real BP that was energetic like the T7 I used, but couldn't find Swiss locally. Eventually I went to Grafs and the price difference persuaded me to try Olde E. I found it to give very similar results as the T7 I had been using (same POI and group sizes). According to the various chronographed results T7, Olde E, and Swiss give very similar velocities (by volume).

Does KIK and Scheutzen also give similar velocities as these?

[Outpost75]

I haven't used Scheutzen, but John Kort's .44-40 data with KIK indicates that it does.

[jjarrell]

I shoot Goex FFFg in my rifles up to .54 cal with no signs of high pressure. Accurate and consistent. Hammer doesn't blow back to half cock, not much fouling, and recoil isn't any different than FFg as far as I can tell. I do shoot round balls though. No conicals. So that does help keep pressures down. Also FFg has a more consistent burn rate with heavy conicals. Rifles have different personalities though. Some like to eat FFFg and some prefer FFg.

[jjarrell]

Grafs house named powder is Scheutzen repackaged, and a little cheaper. Same formulation and performance. I called and asked about it.

[rodwha]

It seems someone told me some time back that Schuetzen was similar to Swiss in performance.

[rodwha]

Here are a couple of people who prefer Olde E over Swiss:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10238954#post10238954

[koehlerrk]

Last year me and a couple buddies went in together and ordered a case of powder from Powder Valley. Got my share in Schutzen, and I don't think I'll ever go back to Goex, as much as it hurts me to say that. Grew up shooting Goex with my dad, he swore by it, but I'm impressed by the consistency and low fouling that the Schutzen is providing.

[rodwha]

Can you say anything about the velocity you get in comparison? After switching did it change your POI or group sizes?

[koehlerrk]

rodwha, the answers are Yes and Yes.

Velocity went up, POI is higher with Schutzen than Goex. Not a lot, maybe one and a half inches at 100 yards. Groups are tighter, especially later in the string. I'd say most of that is due to the reduced fouling. Though I might just be getting better at loading and shooting my front stuffer too.

FYI, this is with a 50 cal TC Hawken, shooting cast 0.490 balls patched with TC brand 0.010 thick pre-lubed cotten patches. This goes over 90gr volumetric of ye holy black and lit with a CCI #11 cap.