Promising results with Caste Boolits in 35 Whelen

[varminter66]

165935

I shot this 4 shot group at 100 yds, off the bench today. It took quite some time, and I still need to prove repeatability, but I am feeling pretty satisfied. Have not chronographed the load yet, so I am guessing when I say it should be around 2000 fps, or slightly more. The boolit is a Mihec 359220 FP with GC, Lyman #2 alloy, sized to .358 using Lee sizer, and NRA Alox lube. Powder is IMR 4064, 47.8 grs, with Federal 210M primers, and crimped using Lee factory crimp die.

[s mac]

I just bought a Handi Rifle chambered in 35 Whelen, with promising results. What is you rifle?

[varminter66]

S Mac, I have a Rem 700 Classic... not that I am a big Remington fan, but this gun is a sweet one. And I have discovered the 35 Whelen is one of those cartridges that will perform very well with either caste or jacketed boolits. I predict you will have more fun to come with your Handi Rifle!

[35 shooter]

Nice. Hope it repeats for you....sure looks like it should.

[varminter66]

I hope to know soon... weather and work are not allowing much time at the range lately.

[TXGunNut]

Looks like you're off to a great start. If you have any 4350 powder it may be worth a look.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Try shooting 1 or 2 shots at a steel plate or into the berm before shooting your paper to get rid of that cold bore flier.

[wrench man]

I'm all but done swapping the barrel on my Savage 110 270Win over to 35 Whelen, have to relieve the barrel channel and I can shoot it!, this is certainly something to keep in mind!:cool:

[varminter66]

Mica, that flyer was actually the 2nd shot of the 4 shot string.... I have loaded the next 5 with a slightly harder crimp. I hope that does the trick.

Wrenchman, I do believe you will find the 35 Whelen to be a versatile option in your gun rack. The people who developed this cartridge seemed to have versatility, as well as practicality, in mind when they came up with this one. If it was intentional or by accident, that doesn't matter... they nailed it. It wasn't until I started messing with caste boolits a little over a year ago that I fully appreciated this.

[geezer56]

I have 2 whelens. One is a Mauser that has a slightly off spec chamber. The bolt will close, snugly, on a no-go gauge. I can live with that, but I have to pull the usual tricks to load for it and not over work the brass. The other is a Savage that was originally a 270. I bought a Shaw barrel kit from someone here and re-barreled it. It is a cast shooting fool. The RCBS 200 grain clone from NOE works great, the 220 grainer I am just getting ready to start playing with. I haven't done anything with the Mauser except shoot them dang full length gas checks through it. The Whelen is one of those calibers that just seems to be made for cast.

[varminter66]

I reduced the load listed in the OP by .1gr, and had 2 flyers, and 3 cutting each other at 100 yds. The group was right around 2" with the flyers included. I must assume I went the wrong way on the load, and will now try 47.9 grs next time out. I chronied the load, and 5 shots averaged around 2150 fps.... just about where I want it, maybe a tad faster. I may play around with a slightly hotter primer, such as a Win WLR, and see what happens. Leading in the bbl is just a light trace on one of the lands.

[sthwestvictoria]

Nice work indeed. The 35 whelen is a very versatile cartridge, running from 158 to 300grain projectiles in cast or jacketed, easy to access brass and increasing amounts of load data, both jacketed and cast.

[Blammer]

I'm thinking your pushing 2200 fps or so. :)

[varminter66]

I'm thinking your pushing 2200 fps or so. :)

I expect 47.9 grs to be close enough to 2200 fps for hunting purposes!! If the group tightens up with this load, I can stop load development for this bullet, and if it performs well on groundhogs this summer, I will consider this a good deer load and bask in the shine of success!!!

[KMac]

Watching this thread with much interest. I would really love it if you kept it updated with any new info that you get from further testing.
I bought a Savage 116 in 30-06 2 years ago with the intention of re-barreling it to 35 Whelen. Traded for a ER Shaw 35 Whelen barrel from a member here last year.
Before the barrel got here I found a good deal on a Hogue Overmolded stock in ghillie green from the Savage Shooters forum and purchased it.
When the barrel arrived it was a SS 35 Whelen barrel with a heavy magnum profile and it would not fit in the stock. So I put the stock on the 30-06 since I could not stand the tupperware stock until I figured out what I wanted to do. Ended up taking it hunting in South Texas this deer season and killed a 19 point whitetail that scored 173 B&C. So for a minute I considered just leaving it as a 30-06 and selling the 35 Whelen barrel. But the bug has hit again and I am now looking for a stock that will fit the 35 Whelen barrel.
I have a RCBS 35-200 mold and a Lyman 3589 mold that I picked up for when I get it together. So any data that you can provide will help keep me going to get this finished.

[Shuz]

Varminter66--FWIW--When I drive any cast boolits over 2000 fps, I heat treat them to at least Bhn 22.

[varminter66]

KMac,
I believe you will find much enjoyment with that 35 Whelen barrel... do it... come to the dark side!! If you need a good stock for the Whelen barrel, consider the Boyd laminated stocks, as they can be channeled to fit the barrel, unlike the Hogue stocks.

As soon as I am able to get to the range, I will post the results.

Shuz,
I have found the Lyman #2 alloy, air cooled to work very well when sized properly to the bore. The Lyman Alox lube (NRA Formula) has been performing very well with all cartridges using caste boolit loads.
The only time I had leading problems with the Whelen, was when I was using IMR 3031 as listed in the #49 Lyman Manual. That powder was just too hot, and I believe I was getting gas cutting. Leading was evident on about 1/3 of the bore, and non-existent on the other 2/3ds. When I switched to IMR 4064, the leading disappeared immediately, and accuracy improved significantly.
I also considered trying IMR 4895 for this Whelen load, but when I Chronied the 4064 load, and found velocity was about where I wanted it, I shelved that idea.

[Shuz]

AA4064 is what I've used for years in my 1:12 twist Douglass bbl'd .35 Whelen. 48g and a Lyman 358009 has done very well on both moose and elk.

[varminter66]

AA4064 is what I've used for years in my 1:12 twist Douglass bbl'd .35 Whelen. 48g and a Lyman 358009 has done very well on both moose and elk.

I wish I could find one of those 358009 molds. I almost bought a Lyman 358318 on E-Bay, but got out bid with a few seconds to go. It seems to old boolit mold patterns that worked well in the Whelen have been shelved, and casters who still have the old molds aren't done with them yet!!

I think my gun has a 1:16 twist, which may be too slow for the 358009 length... but the round nose design is preferable for my use.

[MaLar]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?products_id=428

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=360-280&search_in_description=1&x=0&y=0

Probably cheaper than finding an old Lyman

[KMac]

I wish I could find one of those 358009 molds. I almost bought a Lyman 358318 on E-Bay, but got out bid with a few seconds to go. It seems to old boolit mold patterns that worked well in the Whelen have been shelved, and casters who still have the old molds aren't done with them yet!!

I think my gun has a 1:16 twist, which may be too slow for the 358009 length... but the round nose design is preferable for my use.

I could sell you my Lyman 3589 which was replaced by the 358009 but honestly I would just take the money and buy the NOE mold. It is a collectors item and one of the most sought after molds that there is.
But I have heard the NOE mold drops as good or better a bullet and is 2 or more cavities, where the Lyman is a single cavity.

[varminter66]

MaLar and KMac, Thank you for the information and offers! I have a NOE mold for the 30/06 that I am completely satisfied with. It's aluminum, and heats up quickly, requiring a lower heat setting on the pot.

The 35 Whelen mold I am using is a MiHec brass mold, and throws great flat nose, or hollow point bullets, and requires a hotter heat setting. I also have a Lyman 358315 mold that works really well, but doesn't have the flat meplate/hollow point option.

To be honest, I am still in my learning curve for casting of these bullets, as well as finding the accurate load. So, some of my results on paper are tough to attribute one or the other. A couple nights ago, I cast and culled about 90 HP MiHec boolits, and found I was getting a wide spread of weight due to the length of time I held the dipper to the sprew plate. When I slowed down the process, the weights seemed to increase, and became more consistent.

I will do a little more research on the length of bullet/rate of twist, to determine if I should spend the money.

[35 shooter]

The noe 360009 (358009 clone) is excellent in my 1/14 twist whelen.
54 gr. of imr 4350 pushes it a bit over 2200 fps. with 1.5" and usually much better accuracy @ 100 yds.
I did have to heat treat my ww alloy to get that kind of acurracy at anything much over 2000 fps.
1 hr. at 460* in the oven and water dunked does the trick nicely.

I have heard of some 1/16 twist rifles shooting the 009 boolit well and others that did not.

[varminter66]

35 Shooter, Thank you for clarification regarding the rate of twist. As a newbie to casting, and shooting caste, ( I have only been seriously doing this for about 1 1/2 years) it becomes a bit of a gamble when picking the right boolit mold for the guns I want to shoot. What I know from about 40 years of reloading jacketed bullets is helpful, but not generally applicable with Cast Boolits.

My strategy for all load development is this... accuracy is top priority, velocity is a close second. The Holy Grail is when I have a 3 shot bug hole at 100 yds, then Chrony the load, and find it is performing better than the book says it should!! I have experienced this with the 35 Whelen shooting jackets bullets. Doing the same with Cast Boolits would be like hitting the lottery. But, in order to improve my chances, I have to combine good luck with some insightful decision making. My resources are limited, so I cannot just keep buying bullet molds, trying them, and selling them at a loss if they don't work.

I had originally bought the Lyman 358315 because it was the only one that was handy to purchase. I liked the Lyman 358318 better, but Lyman doesn't cut the mold anymore, I didn't know which other brands to trust, nor did I trust buying an old used one off e-bay.

Using the boolits I cast with the L 358315, I began load development, while tinkering with different alloys. I was getting mixed results, and decided I should try a different boolit design. I became daring, and ordered a MP 359220 brass mold with the hollow point and flat point pins. It was a great move on my part, but required more learning. After realizing some successful load development with the MP mold, I decided to try the same load with the Lyman. Low and behold, it almost equaled the group of the MP.

So I tell you all that, to say this... Regarding cast boolits.... if there is ever a time that I can isolate, and accurately credit one, or a combination of variables as a cause of boolit performance... I will have attained enlightenment of Biblical measures. The odds of that are pretty slim, so.... I guess I will just settle for having more good luck, than intent when realizing success with casting and shooting cast boolits.

[TXGunNut]

I expect 47.9 grs to be close enough to 2200 fps for hunting purposes!! If the group tightens up with this load, I can stop load development for this bullet, and if it performs well on groundhogs this summer, I will consider this a good deer load and bask in the shine of success!!!

My hunting load is the NOE 360230 at about 2200, it's brutal on S Texas deer and hogs. Your deer are a good bit bigger and could use a bit more of what the 35 Whelen has to offer. Not sure if you have an opportunity for black bear but you may have a good load for them as well.

[TXGunNut]

Varminter66--FWIW--When I drive any cast boolits over 2000 fps, I heat treat them to at least Bhn 22.

That seems to be especially true in the 35 Whelen, not sure why. My Whelen loads don't lead at 2200fps but about 1900 fps and above groups improve markedly when HT'd.

[varminter66]

Well, the increase in powder seemed to cause the group to open up, so it's back to the loading listed in the original post, to see what happens. One thing that is different, I cleaned the Whelen barrel with Wipe Out a few nights before shooting this last group, as I had shot jacketed bullets through it in the past. While the group with caste didn't improve, the lead fouling was non-existent near the muzzle. So, there may have been old copper fouling affecting my previous efforts. I will keep you posted as I muddle through this project!!

[varminter66]

Update: Loaded 5 rounds with the 47.8 grs of IMR 4064. Noticed, while loading them, that 2 had very light wrinkles in the "nose" of the boolits, the other 3 were caste perfectly. Went to the range, and sure enough, the 3 that were good boolits grouped in a clover leaf at 100 yds, the 2 that had the wrinkles were flyers.

I have selected another 5 boolits that look good, weighed to within .1 grs, and will load and shoot to see what happens.... I hope an increase in quality control yields desired results.

[35 shooter]

Shot this target today while working up loads in my whelen with aa4350 powder @ 105 yds.
The load was 59 gr. of aa4350 behind a noe 360230 fn. Alloy is ww heat treated @ 460* for 1 hr. and then water dropped from the oven.
This should be a solid 2300 fps., but haven't chronoed it yet.

This was the third time i rotated the target while shooting different loads, so the lower holes in the target are from a couple of other loads that showed vertical stringing.

Cross winds were gusting anywhere from 10 to about 20 mph.
The first three shots went into .269" center to center and the wind caught the 4th and last shot(called) to the right for a 1.025"

Nothing worked with the aa 4350 for me untill right at or just before compression.
168265168265168265

Wow, sorry for the triple pic's. Lol i guess i hit the button too hard or something.
Anyway, when "ol contrary" shoots like that, the load usually holds up.
I'll be trying it again soon. If you have any aa4350 it might be worth a shot.

Ok looking at the target in my hands, that was just the second time i had rotated the target...so just the 2 groups on it. 59 1/2 gr. really spread out in a hurry. 60 is supposed to be max and compressed, so i doubt if i find anything past the 59 gr. load.

[varminter66]

35 Shooter, the group is looking good, especially for shooting in a cross wind.

Yesterday I had some time to shoot with about a 3-5 mph breeze...
After getting a few details straightened out, like culling all blemished boolits out, and making the crimp a little harder, I shot this 5 shot group at 100 yds from a clean barrel. The first fouler shot is marked as such, and the rest just clumped together so nice.... I am pleased... and no visible leading at the end of the barrel.... what more could I want.
168618

[35 shooter]

varminter66, nicely done!! You have a VERY accurate whelen and looks like a very stable load there...congrats.

[varminter66]

Thank you, 35 Shooter. It sure does feel good to have some consistent results. Now I just need to get my casting process worked out, so I am getting boolits that are weighing + or - .2 grs when dropping from the mold, with no blemishes.

Funny how IMR 4064 is not listed as an acceptable powder for caste in any of my recent reloading manuals. The slowest powder that Lyman lists for a similar boolit is IMR 3031. PO Ackley's books do not differentiate between Jacketed and Caste, yet his 35 Whelen data is quite close to what I am getting with 4064 across my Chrony. That data is 50 years old... Just sayin'....

[KMac]

Once again this has inspired me to finish changing my Savage 116 30-06 to .35 Whelen. I have a B&C Duramaxx stock on the way that I found on another forum that will fit my Staggered feed blind magazine rifle and the barrel channel is big enough for the ER Shaw 35 Whelen barrel in heavy magnum contour I have to put on it. Can't wait to get it together and start testing some of these loads.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TXGunNut]

Funny how IMR 4064 is not listed as an acceptable powder for caste in any of my recent reloading manuals. The slowest powder that Lyman lists for a similar boolit is IMR 3031. -Varminter66

I noticed something similar in my 35 Whelen load development, the powders that worked best for me and my rifle were somewhat slower than I was expecting. Nice shooting, BTW!

[varminter66]

Shot these two targets yesterday. I am satisfied with the results, the load, and the sizing method. There is no noticeable leading, with boolit speed in the range of 2150-2180 fps. I will test both HP and FP on groundhogs this summer, in preparation for deer season.

The only thing I need to improve upon is my Boolit Casting techniques. Many things learned along the way about using slow powder, crimping, and culling.

Thanks to you people on this forum, I have finally gotten on the right trail for making quality caste reloads.
169168

[35 shooter]

Looks like a load and boolit that's ready to hunt anything, anytime, anywhere.

[varminter66]

Update... Shot a groundhog at about 100 yds with the Whelen using the hollow point boolit this weekend. Shot it from stern to stem, and observed total penetration, with an exit hole about 2.5" round. I would not hesitate to use this load and boolit on a deer. Very pleased with the results.